Chemtrails. It's in the jetfuel.

reply to post by weedwhacker


hehe! sorry i should have remembered you flew and knew about this fact! lol! My bad!

But i guess I'll just leave it there and I do like your professional explanation of why this is so! Heh, I'm just the layman here! lol!

reply to post by Chadwickus


Isnt it interesting how some people dont even bother doing the basics before jumping to conclusions? Oil fields? Barium? Another mystery solved by a simple observation of the surrounding area and what goes on!

Star for you man! Good job!

Originally posted by ChemBreather
Government Cover-ups: Chemtrails

Some debunkers use cropped photos of high-G manuevers which gives off aerodynamic condensation from the wing--as a supposed explanation to wing emitted chemtrails. But this is bogus. Aerodynamic condensation doesn’t occur in straight and level flight and never leaves a long contrail. It also shows up within inches of the wing trailing edge, unlike chemtrail spraying.

im just waiting for one of the 'pilots' to de-bunk this now, Hmmm, just wonder what angle. And how come all other people in the world are wrong?? pilots in this thread know all and everything about every plane in the world..

All legitimate aircraft at high altitudes emitting contrails will be acknowledged by the FAA. Conversely, the existence of aircraft spraying chemicals is always denied by the FAA, under orders from the government. You can be on a cell phone, in real time, reporting the presence of an aircraft overhead to the FAA and they will tell you that no such aircraft exists on their radar screens. They are flat-out lying.

1. Go check flightaware.com and look at all of the aircraft overhead. You are seriously calling the FAA when you see airplanes flying? Do you call the police when you see cars on the road too?

2. YES, you can have aerodynamic contrails in normal flight.
Look at this pic.
www.jetphotos.net...

Or do you think that is some sooper sekric chemplane that forgot to turn off its sprayers? hahhaa

One thing in common with chemtrail believers, they start with conclusion and work backwards from that, insisting their conspiracy be debunked, instead of actually thinking rationally about something then coming to a conclusion.

Anyone with a bit of science knowledge knows that a lower pressure causes lower temperatures, and that raises humidity of that parcel of air, making saturation more likely.

Okay, another question. If some planes on the same flight track means chemtrails, or if some planes going south, with some crossing their path on a east/west heading means chemtrails too, when how would a chemtrail believer design an air traffic navigation system for planes? Or would you only allow 1 plane in the air at a time?

[edit on 25-3-2009 by firepilot]

[edit on 25-3-2009 by firepilot]

[edit on 25-3-2009 by firepilot]

I have to re-itereate here, about the OP's claim on page one, regarding pilots turning chemtrails on and off, by 'switching' tanks.

This shows the level of expertise the OP has, as per knowledge of real airplanes.

At the risk of being boring...Let's take a B -757 for example. There are THREE fuel tanks. One in each wing, of course, and a center tank in the fuselage (located approximately where the wing root is)

WHEN the fuel load includes Center Tank fuel, the burn is from that tank first. THIS is accomplished because, even with ALL tank pumps selected 'ON', the pumps in the Center tank are designed to output at a higher pressure. Various check-valves are inserted into the system so that the pressure from the Center Tank pumps flows to the engines.

This is important because....the Center Tank fuel MUST be used (burned) first, per Airplane Operating Handbook....or 'FOM' procedures. (FOM=Flight Operating Manual).

AFTER the Center tank is used (still there is a requirement to keep at least 1,000 pounds there....in certain airplanes) the Center Pumps are turned off by the pilots.

NOW, it is 'tank-to-engine'....from the wing tanks.

There are 'Limitations' to consider regarding fuel imbalances, between the Main tanks....

So, the OP's notion of pilots 'switching' tanks is ludricous....sorry if facts get in the way of someone's 'belief'.

Chemtrails/contrails are always come from the wingtip.
Not the engine.As moisture builds in the atmosphere and
the airplane being at high speed and altitude the wing tip
creates a vortex that forms ice crystals.
That is what you see and also is a good sign of rain.
Hogi

Yeah, how those pesky facts get in the way of conspiracies. In most every comment regarding aviation that chemtrail believers made in this thread, was FALSE, and so easily debunked, even if they had just completely read up on even their own links.

I think it must be some chemtrail manta that jet turbines are just giant cuisinarts that you dump anything you want into, and if an engine has filters in the fuel line, thats obviously for chemtrails, and if an engine had problems, obviously it ingested too much chemtrail matter.

Hey, but then if microbes can grow in jet fuel, obviously that means chemtrails too, or if some airliners are going to the same destination on the same high altitude airway, that means chemtrails too.

They would really freak out if they saw how traffic is on the North Atlantic Tracks, where it can be an entire stream of airliners going down the same route.

OK....I'm sorry, but "vortexes of air" off the wingtips DOES NOT compensate for what I've witnessed with my own eyes through my binoculars....all FOUR engines are emitting trails that DO NOT come from the wing tips. All you debunkers, debunk this, since there seems to be a real concerted effort to file this away as a bunch of heresay:

Permanent Injunction to Stop Aerial Releases of.....

For at least twelve years all NATO countries have had aerial releases rain down on them from unmarked jets and unmanned aerial vehicles (chemtrails).

Some of the ingredients that are in the fallout have been identified. Bio-toxins, red blood cells, self-replicating nanotech devices that copy DNA, nano-devices that send and receive microwave/radio/ELF energies, chemicals, heavy metals, sedatives, conductive minerals, carbon poweders, alumina, barium powders, substances involved in genetic manipulation, biosensors, and micro-devices have all been found and identified.

There are thousands upon thousands of eye witnesses, expert eye witnesses, whistleblowers, meterologists, scientists, citizens, activists, and journalists who have all taken photographs, videos, rain water samples, fallout samples, hepa filter samples, soil samples, plant samples, and biological samples from people and animals.

With the recent U.N. lawsuit filed by German meterologists against the German Army to stop the chemtrails in Germany, it is time for Americans to put a stop to this in our own country. The Air Force in their document, "Air Force 2025: Owning the Weather," have a timeline, spray chart that states nanotechnology will be sprayed until the year 2025. If this document is only a study and not a program plan, why are there charts in there that tell what will be sprayed and during which years?

In July 2006, the Idaho Observer reported that a chemtrail fallout lab report turned up:

6 bacteria, including anthrax and pneumonia
9 chemicals including acetylcholine chloride
26 heavy metals including arsenic, gold, lead,mercury, silver, uranium and zinc
4 molds and fungi
7 viruses
2 cancers
2 vaccines
2 sedatives

And this.....please scroll to page 287, because there is a lot more to this that won't fit in this post:

Public Law 105-85

SEC. 1078. RESTRICTIONS ON THE USE OF HUMAN SUBJECTS FOR TESTING OF CHEMICAL OR BIOLOGICAL AGENTS.

(a) PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES.—The Secretary of Defense may not conduct (directly or by contract)—
(1) any test or experiment involving the use of a chemical agent or biological agent on a civilian population; or
(2) any other testing of a chemical agent or biological agent on human subjects.

(b) EXCEPTIONS—Subject to subsections (c), (d), and (e), the prohibition in subsection (a) does not apply to a test or experiment carried out for any of the following purposes:
(1) Any peaceful purpose that is related to a medical, therapeutic, pharmaceutical, agricultural, industrial, or research activity.
(2) Any purpose that is directly related to protection against toxic chemicals or biological weapons and agents.
(3) Any law enforcement purpose, including any purpose related to riot control.

reply to post by hogiskeetin


whoyoucallingaskeptic.files.wordpress.com...
blog.wired.com...
blog.wired.com...

Contrails only come from the wingtips when there is a lot of moisture in the air, like near the ground when its about to rain, or just after a rain.

Chemtrails. It's in the jetfuel.

That is the title of the post, so if we have that many chemtrails in the air then what happens to use below. Does it keep the lid on the smog even more that we create with cars, are we just left in the middle to sufficate from it?





[edit on 25-3-2009 by The time lord]

Is there a bit of goalpost moving going on? First you said how to show airplanes making aerodynamic contrails in level flight, and we did. Now thats not good enough for you so you are back to engines.

But thats what conspiracy theorists to. They make argument A, it gets explaned, then they go to B, it gets explained, then onto C and D which get explained, then they go right back to A and it starts all over again.

yes, engines can make contrails. yes they can even persist. What is so hard about this to understand? Its like concepts of temperature, humidity and saturation are like calculus to some people. Water is a by-product of combustion.

And so now, you are using a chemtrail conspiracy webpage as proof of chemtrails. Talk about circular logic, how are chemtrail conspiracy webpages with zero proof of anything, proof of chemtrails? There is no such website, no aircraft exhaust was ever sampled, of course they would have put it up if it was. Its just made up nonsense, like much of what chemtrail believers say.

I think somehow the idea that is often around -40 up high and colder, totally lost on people who think somehow you can spray organisms on people from that high.





[edit on 25-3-2009 by firepilot]

Originally posted by emeraldzeus
With the recent U.N. lawsuit filed by German meterologists against the German Army to stop the chemtrails in Germany, it is time for Americans to put a stop to this in our own country.

Except there was no such lawsuit - merely a complaint by Karsen Brandt that excessive use of chaff during an military exercise had resulted in problems with rainfall radar. You can contact him yourself if you like.

The implication also being that if this were an example of chemtrails than a) chemtrails are not visible from the ground and b) chemtrails can be readily identified by radar (which in turn is availble to the public in the UK, not sure about other countries). Two points chemtrailer believers have steadfastly ignored with regards this particular case. I wonder why?

In July 2006, the Idaho Observer reported that a chemtrail fallout lab report turned up:

6 bacteria, including anthrax and pneumonia
9 chemicals including acetylcholine chloride
26 heavy metals including arsenic, gold, lead,mercury, silver, uranium and zinc
4 molds and fungi
7 viruses
2 cancers
2 vaccines
2 sedatives

Amazing there's any room for actual jet fuel if they're carrying all that in their tanks?!!

Of course, none of these substances could have originated closer to ground could they? I mean, we all know cars and factories and farms and natural processes produce no chemicals or organic substances whatsoever ...... Mind, if they were releasing these things in your neighbourhood, how handy if everyone things they come from a Jumbo Jet 6 miles overhead

btw does pollen come from chemtrails too? And what about slugs? Only I always notice more slugs around after I've seen chemtrails overhead. So that must be where they come from, mustn't it? Logically it's exactly the same.

[edit on 25-3-2009 by Essan]

reply to post by emeraldzeus


GreenZeus.....that is EXACTLY the point!!!!

YOU used your binocs to see 'contrails' coming from all four engines of a four-engined jet!!!!

I am slapping my forehead here....

Not sure how to more clear.....the contrails come from the engines, at high altitudes.

Certain high-humidity conditions at the surface will show condensation, as provided by Zaphod....I HAVE seen this many, many times.

With the vast amount of expert advice and evidence, HOW do people persist in this fallacy???

Now, just shaking head....no more slapping, 'cuz it hurts.......

And yet one more link that is worth a read, if anyone actually cares to RESEARCH historical fact, rather than sit around and debunk with no real observance of what has already gone on....

Operation Bacterium

reply to post by emeraldzeus


Ok...got it.....yeah, but.....

'emerald'....

What is the point, again???

Read this thread, that you are posting on. The concept involves somehow 'lacing' jetfuel with 'something' that is then 'sprayed'.....

Sorry, but I know of NO biological cell or any other organism that could withstand the temperatures of combustion within a Jet Engine!!!

Really....think about it.

Over 850 degrees Cesius....and THAT is just at the exhaust!!!!



[edit on 3/25/0909 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by emeraldzeus

Aw, you left out this part. Interesting, since it immediately follows your quoted section.

(c) INFORMED CONSENT REQUIRED.—The Secretary of Defense may conduct a test or experiment described in subsection (b) only if informed consent to the testing was obtained from each human subject in advance of the testing on that subject.

(d) PRIOR NOTICE TO CONGRESS.—Not later than 30 days after the date of final approval within the Department of Defense of plans for any experiment or study to be conducted by the Department of Defense (whether directly or under contract) involving the use of human subjects for the testing of a chemical agent or a biological agent, the Secretary of Defense shall submit to the Committee on Armed Services of the Senate and the Committee on National Security of the House of Representatives a report setting forth a full accounting of those plans, and the experiment or study may then be conducted only after the end of the 30- day period beginning on the date such report is received by those committees.

bulk.resource.org...

It seems that PUBLIC LAW 105–85 actually goes a long way toward preventing the kind of testing done in the past. Testing without informed consent, without oversight.


[edit on 3/25/2009 by Phage]

reply to post by weedwhacker


Well, I think this is going nowhere....

I guess I'll have to take some video to show how I actually have contrails and chemtrails showing up in the same space....

I must be an idiot for some of these "excuses" that have been given here....I've read everything from temperature, rain, wingtips, and a few others. I'm at a loss, really.

First of all, I live in a region with EXTREMELY low relative humidity, where the only clouds in the sky at times are the ones created by the planes. Only 2-4 inches of rain a year....so the rain theory is debunked as far as I'm concerned. Let me add that these chemtrails are rarely seen at night, and for those of you who have never lived in a place with little to no ambient light from the city, it can get pretty darn bright outside just from the moon. Hence my purchase of binoculars to begin with.....I have a beautiful shot of the night sky with no light pollution, and can clearly see clouds....both real and aircraft-made. Chemtrails seem to have a preference for the daylight, although I have seen them at night a few times. Funny, but it generally gets colder at night where I live....this would mean the atmosphere would be great at producing clouds off wingtips, but ironically, as I said before, they prefer the daylight! 9-5 chemtrails? Funny how that correlates to normal working hours!

I also live in a region with extreme winters and extreme summers.....temperature plays absolutely no part from my perspective, unless you were to provide me proof of weather reports with cold/hot air fronts in correlation to these "wingtip" clouds. In which case, the entire world would be subject to this same phenomenon.....oddly, China does not experience these, only NATO countries. I guess high atmosphere ice crystals are now intelligent enough to exercise prejudice? LOL!

Thanks for trying, but none of you have given me ANY proof that what I have witnessed and observed for years in ALL parts of the country are the same thing as a contrail. I wasn't born yesterday, and I do see a glaring difference as I witness the two different trails in the sky at the same time many times. Contrails disappear...chemtrails do not. Contrails follow normal flight paths....chemtrails end up all over the freakin' place in checkerboard fashion. Since when do commercial airliners fly in checkerboard fashion? They don't!

Again...perhaps I should take the time to video tape what I see, as that seems to be the only real way to show you what I'm talking about. But I would venture to guess that it wouldn't matter.

reply to post by Phage


I didn't leave it out....it didn't fit, and I even said to go to the page to read the rest. There is more past what you wrote, so one could argue YOU left some out as well....read the rest of it. The fine wording of the text is what is in question here. At face value, it appears to protect, but that is the objective....you have to READ word for word.

By the way, "informed consent" primarily concerns military personnel. When they sign the dotted line, their bodies then become property of the US Government....I've even witnessed personnel being written up for getting sunburns because of this very item. THEY ARE PROPERTY OF THE US GOVERNMENT. The government tests on it's own service members more than anyone will ever care to acknowledge....I've witnessed this first hand.

reply to post by emeraldzeus


emerald....


You just stepped all over yourself, in your own post!!!

I won't embarrass you by pointing out all of the fallicies....

I am sure others will....

Let's, please, all of us focus on the original intent, of the OP.

"...It's in the jetfuel"

Well, THAT concept is well debunked. I must harken back, as well, to the OP's first post, about pilots selecting various fuel tanks in order to turn off or on the so-called "chemtrails"...
Again, I refuted that notion. It is ridiculous, and shows a lack of aviation knowledge by the OP.

So, we have nothing, not from the OP, nor from the 'chemtrail believers'.

Just innuendo, and BS form the internet, which has ALSO been shown to be Bogus...

EDIT was for spelling.....nothing else.....




[edit on 3/25/0909 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by weedwhacker


OK, here's one for you....how do you explain me seeing two chemtrails coming from a four-engine jet? Only two engines producing the effects? I don't buy it.

Sorry, but you have not convinced me yet....

And to the other poster talking about how things can survive the exhaust....that opens up an entire topic of discussion worthy of it's own thread. In order to discuss that, you would first have to acknowledge that it happens, then you would have to acknowledge the items that have been found after a spray. Since neither of us are microbiologists, or experts in nanotechnology, I would venture to say that it would take far more research from either of us to prove what could or could not survive the temperatures providing:

1. they weren't engineered to survive extreme heat

2. they are indeed traveling through the fuel lines and not being sprayed from canisters UNDER the engines, to make it appear that it is coming from the exhaust.

Too many factors here....so I would venture to say this is one of those topics where you either believe and have witnessed for yourself, or you don't. Nothing I say will change your mind, and vice verse.

Peace out....

Thanks for trying, but none of you have given me ANY proof that what I have witnessed and observed for years in ALL parts of the country are the same thing as a contrail. I wasn't born yesterday, and I do see a glaring difference as I witness the two different trails in the sky at the same time many times. Contrails disappear...chemtrails do not. Contrails follow normal flight paths....chemtrails end up all over the freakin' place in checkerboard fashion. Since when do commercial airliners fly in checkerboard fashion? They don't!

Now really? So you are seriously saying, that can not aircraft be doing that? If you have airplanes flying north/south, some flying east/west, some at diagonals to that, then how is it going to look?

How do you know what "flight patterns" are when there is no such thing. Again showing chemmies and aviation expertise are two roads that will never meet. Would you be in favor of a law that planes can only fly in one direction? Ooops, never mind, chemtrail believers that that also means chemtrails.

And why do contrails have to disappear? Tell us SCIENTIFICALLY how contrails MUST DISAPPEAR. Not conspiracy talk, not junk science, but tell us what about the atmosphere means contrails can not persist.

These people probably think all the ice crystals in top of mountains are just piled up barium and viruses.



[edit on 25-3-2009 by firepilot]