David Icke verses Jesus Christ

From a logical point of view where there is faith the doors of the spiritual world open, it happens all the time, people get to know God in different ways, something’s cannot be explained or proof ever be given, some people can in minor subtle ways. Faith is one thing for sure that is what God intended, I know people say how can the Bible be true, if it’s not then people who are in the Bible that can't be proven, no doubt kings and rulers have their images set in stone along with historical findings and other evidence, the problem today is not proving the Bible is set in real surroundings with real people but what type of people they were and if some supernatural events were real. The Bible is the best tool ever in finding historical places of their described settings, its a fact and without it archaeology would have trouble putting the pieces together so it has other uses.

The deeper you go the more fascinating it becomes, but today people are put off from it, they are labelled crazy, but if you have a broad wide angle look at it, it may strengthen the faith that comes with it no doubt and today people demand more evidence when before it was more heart to heart faith.

The way to examine the Bible is;

Against itself,
In our world of thought and theirs of the those times,
Translation of language original meanings,
Prophecy and hidden meanings,
Historical settings and events,
Science and philosophy comparisons
Proof of its historical stories with new dug up evidence,
Faith as demand
Dogmas and laws and spiritual message

Probably a bit more, but who says it’s all rubbish, it’s a shame people are put off by the faith barrier it does contain some of the most important historical accounts civilised mankind and still the discoveries are being made with its help.

I think these days you have to be more intelligent to believe or have faith, some just have faith because they know God is there they can feel his presence and others search for it and some just fall into it no doubt.

The thing I find interesting is that ADAM & EVE ENCOUNTERED A REPTILS/SNAKE/FALLEN ANGEL THAT SPOKE CLEARIFY THIS AND WE ARE COOL.

reply to post by The time lord


...and your point is??

I am not sure if I even understand your post.

EDIT: Also FYI you used the word "Faith" Eight times in your post. I have yet to hear anything different as far as debate goes, it always comes down to faith, facts are dismissed and faith become evidence. Which was my point exactly.

[edit on 29-7-2009 by 12.21.12]

My guess about the Reptile being deceiving Eve is this, some of the higher Angels are called firery serpents in the Bible maybe they have Reptile animal likeness, some of the Cherubs with 4 faces looks like a Lion and an Ox all rolled into one but that is their design. If the serpent was on the tree of knowledge who says he too did not gain knowledge from it too, he must have.

As for faith, faith can bring people to a higher spiritual state and open new doors to the way of understanding scripture and feeling a oneness with nature and creation itself, some feel different bodily too and feel more success in life. You need faith to open the smaller doors before you enter the larger one, but the experience with a lot of Christians is waking up from the world around them, sometimes it’s better to find faith later in life than to lose it when being taught when young, it’s harder to go back to it but no doubt when young people are taught it’s like the parable of the sower, some fall on fertile land some on hard ground.

Sometimes it takes a leap of faith to try and find where the old cities of the Bible once were, many have done and have found them in cross reference, in a way not believing is a good tool in maing you have stronger faith, much of the Bible is about that kind of person.

I can not change people's minds there is only so much one can say, good luck on your journeys.

Originally posted by rich23


I too thought Icke was a nutter for some time. But as time has gone on his claims have become less and less outlandish. I'm even considering the possibility that the reptilian thing might be on some level correct.

If a statement is heard many times it becomes more belivable, and then even you will forget that it hasnt been proven or anything and you start to think uit is the truth.

This is the meaning of this phrase, and it is not a joke:

“A lie told often enough becomes the truth.” Those chilling words were spoken by Vladimir Lenin, a Russian Communist revolutionary and the father of the Soviet Union

As for Ike, I saw his explanation about the law of attraction. (you can easily find it anywhere on google video and youtube)

He gives the example of fear, and says you attract what you fear, because otherwhise you are supposed to experience that which you fear in order to overcome it. Because you tend to stay away from what you fear, so if LOA wouldnt atract those things to you, you would never experience them.

Well this philosophical explanation is interesting, but it is proven utterly wrong by what happens in reality.

If attracting what you fear were true, then shy nerds would atttract hot women to them all the time, and be always surrounded by them, thus they would get used to them, and not be shy anymore, except that doesnt really happen does it... Hot women are not found around shy nerds at all.

The same could be said about people eho are afraid of spiders. If Icke`s explanation were true, people who are afraid of spiders, woud be spider magnets.

Etc

Here`s more food for thought for ya:

--------------- confirmation bias

the phenomenon known as confirmation bias, whereby subjects systematically seek only evidence that confirms their hypotheses


--------------- Honest evidence:

assume nothing (or even assume the oposite of what u trying to prove, to see if evidence stands up to scruitiny,)

assume nothing -----> look at ev ----> FROM the EVIDENCE the best conclusion is drawn (without any need for pre made asumptions or theorys)


--------------- mental brainwashing technique / conman technique:


Present the theory first (assumption) ----- > find many examples that match your theory (superficial "evidence") ----> belief in theory is reinforced

even thoo no actual proof was presented, the large number of superficial evidence will create the ilusion of lots of proof
(since the proposer of the theory doesnt forget to supply lots of supeficial evidence, he creates a case of confirmation bias on steroids)

I know you are speaking to The time lord but so what : P

Originally posted by trey85
I consider your statements as ignorance of what you are 'perceiving,' which is a view from the outside...not within.

You can consider them whatever you like, but saying an apple is an orange wont actually turn it into an orange

Many concur in their understanding that the jesu mythos are slavery-indoctrination

This is classic mindcontrol technique used to make something belivable when you dont have proof. (saying "many people belive...")

that the jesu mythos are slavery-indoctrination, and he is a compsited creation, as I happen to know. I would point out this source information, but it would not be understood (I have posted it on ats many times, all ignored). Heads in the sand.

Not understood even by one person ? Are you sure it isnt you who is "head in the sand" ?

And what is wrong with the Jesus teaching ?

It basiclay says treat others as you would like to be treated.

Forgive others, and the big boss in the sky will forgive your sins towards others too.

etc

I mention we are speaking about JESUS`ES TEACHINGS, meeaning the stuff he said directly.

I am not talking about what some evangelist preacher teaches, or the church, etc

You are welcome to your opinion...btw, how old are you? Sounds like you're just starting out, and have not figured much out yet

Sh***t, youre a well trained one arent you. You are a master manipulator. You are using alot of manipulation techniques.
This one is a version of strawman attack, where you candt dicresit the oponent`s argument directly so you attack his credibility instead (or his character, etc).

David Icke is right to denounce your blind biblical beliefs. You sound like a jesu parasite, to me.

LOL

You say YOU experienced cosmic consciousness ? If you are a model for cosmic consciuosness no wonder the world is like it is.

And no wonder you do not like Jesus. He said to be nice to your detractors.

so you can insult others who are not blind like yourself, and spread your pathetic sycophantic

The Earth & it's humanity faces these trials because of your kind of Ignorance. [...] Hypocrites beyond belief.

You dont know your david icke to well, he says people who attack others for their beliefs (like you are oing now) are the "sheep dogs" keeping the sheep inline.

You are the hypocrite mate, you preach david icke but you dont apply it.

Even he says that we should be tolerant of eachother. (Ofcourse he doesnt aplly it either, which is more evidence he`s full of sh*t)

It is very appearent that most post on this thread have either read very little of him or none at all.

I know david ickes`s stuff very well, which is how i know he is full of it.

And this is also how i know both you and icke are hypocrites who dont practice what they teach.

Whens the last time a christian has been laughed at for believing in jesus

Homes, you are full of it again. Christians are loughed at and attacked all the time, includiding here on this forum, just like you are attacking them right now.

It is too bad that people were loughing at david icke, and were mocking him, i feel bad for him, but that is not a stamp of aproval for anything. His "stuff" should be judjed on its own merit, as for david icke the man, i have said enough about him already.



[edit on 9-8-2009 by randomguy]

reply to post by kindred

Again the complete opposite of organised religion.

Jesus did NOT promote organised religion:

Luke 22:25 Jesus said to them, “The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them; and those who exercise authority over them call themselves Benefactors. 26 But you are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves. 27 For who is greater, the one who is at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who is at the table? But I am among you as one who serves.


42 Jesus called them together and said, “You know that those who are regarded as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them.
43 Not so with you.Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, 44 and whoever wants to be first must be slave of all. 45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.” (Matthew 20)


Galatians 6:2 "Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.


John 14:21 “He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”


Isaiah 58:

4 What good is fasting when you keep on fighting and quarreling? This kind of fasting will never get you anywhere with me.

5 You humble yourselves by going through the motions of penance, bowing your heads like a blade of grass in the wind. You dress in sackcloth and cover yourselves with ashes. Is this what you call fasting? Do you really think this will please the LORD?

6 "No, the kind of fasting I want calls you to free those who are wrongly imprisoned and to stop oppressing those who work for you. Treat them fairly and give them what they earn.

7 I want you to share your food with the hungry and to welcome poor wanderers into your homes. Give clothes to those who need them, and do not hide from relatives who need your help.

8 "If you do these things, your salvation will come like the dawn. Yes, your healing will come quickly. Your godliness will lead you forward, and the glory of the LORD will protect you from behind.

Originally posted by 12.21.12

If you can prove ANYTHING you just said please do.

I hope you are using the same standard on david icke and his stuff.

People are so afraid of Christ's teachings, some say it enslaves them, but did not Jesus free us when he fulfilled ancient laws and practices, for the ancient times this teaching of Christ freed the world from Roman rule, tribal and pagan rituals and sacrifices and harsh laws, it freed a lot of people and yet today people do not want to give that credit for what it says.

You have two choices in the world today; listen to a dictator under his terms, no religion required just his policies. Communist rule where other freedoms are not allowed.

Islam which is growing through population and growth, where no other method of thought is allowed in or out and persecution is at hand with strict laws and take on the old Jewish laws to a higher level of strictness of unforgiving attitudes.

Or Christian Democracy where the Bible is the constitution and the morals of religion is applied but is a choice what one believes as there is no persecution for others or the opposite where we are coming to now where our freedoms and defence is infiltrated through political correctness for extremists to erode such Christian constitutions and then take over as their own. Then we have chaos and riots as such and evil on the streets where misguided youths have no control and the world is in chaos.

If David Icke can express his freedom of opinion no doubt he does in this free society, by attacking the fundamentals of faith and Christian religion he is opening the same doors to the not so nurtured minds and savage behaviours that resides within humanity who need a sense of governance that is fair. I like to see how he would run a country under his own laws, he tells the world the wrongs here in the West and yet what is his ideal world? Heaven, maybe to get to heaven we have to earn it to get there, it’s not a switch that sets you free if you rid your self from religion and all laws and sinful nature. We do not have the power to do that and he him self however free he wants to be is still aging like the rest of us as a result of original sin.


[edit on 10-8-2009 by The time lord]

The only thing worth hearing is the fact evil forces are at work in the world and he can see it better than most of us with all the manipulations, many Christians know this, they are also as aware of the dangers that oppose our freedoms and expressions. That have warnings of the end times and are forewarned of what to expect, many believe we are leading up to such events of a totalitarian Satanic order. How many today can see the forces of evil at work trying to either kill us or enslave us but the good prevails over it. Sometimes we become compacement, instead of saying to someone, we agree to put crosses down in our public place because it offends you, people should be saying we sympathise that you feel this way I hope you get used to our ways and freedoms that are not allowed in your own culture.

Originally posted by The time lord
People are so afraid of Christ's teachings, some say it enslaves them,

Sir, you are making generalzations.

yet today people do not want to give that credit for what it says.

Dont worry about it, I dont think Christ is after reciving credit for stuff, so its ok.

You have two choices in the world today;

Common man, you have more than that.

listen to a dictator under his terms, no religion required just his policies. Communist rule where other freedoms are not allowed.

Islam which is growing through population and growth, where no other method of thought is allowed in or out and persecution is at hand with strict laws and take on the old Jewish laws to a higher level of strictness of unforgiving attitudes.

Or Christian Democracy where the Bible is the constitution and the morals of religion is applied but is a choice what one believes as there is no persecution for others

No. Even in christianity "the bible" is not the boss, Jesus is the boss. As in you gey the Holy Spirit and he satarts to talk to you.

The bible is just an instruction manual on how to get the Holy Spirit.

John 14:21 “He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”

or the opposite where we are coming to now where our freedoms and defence is infiltrated through political correctness for extremists to erode such Christian constitutions and then take over as their own. Then we have chaos and riots as such and evil on the streets where misguided youths have no control and the world is in chaos.

Making "the bible" your constitution, instead of the actual constitution, is one thing that has helped to promote some of this.

Even Jesus says to separate church and state: give onto Cesar that which belongs to Cesar and give onto God that which belongs to God.

I like to see how he would run a country under his own laws, he tells the world the wrongs here in the West and yet what is his ideal world? Heaven, maybe to get to heaven we have to earn it to get there, it’s not a switch that sets you free if you rid your self from religion and all laws and sinful nature. We do not have the power to do that and he him self however free he wants to be is still aging like the rest of us as a result of o

Calm down.

Just... be cool

; )

I know I sound angry when I write, but its down to me trying to write against time in case I forget what I have to say, sometimes I don't re-draft and slim down some of my expressions as I want to do write in other threads, I hardly read back what I write when in a rush, my fault I know.

Originally posted by randomguy

Originally posted by The time lord
People are so afraid of Christ's teachings, some say it enslaves them,

Sir, you are making generalzations.

yet today people do not want to give that credit for what it says.

Dont worry about it, I dont think Christ is after reciving credit for stuff, so its ok.

You have two choices in the world today;

Common man, you have more than that.

listen to a dictator under his terms, no religion required just his policies. Communist rule where other freedoms are not allowed.

Islam which is growing through population and growth, where no other method of thought is allowed in or out and persecution is at hand with strict laws and take on the old Jewish laws to a higher level of strictness of unforgiving attitudes.

Or Christian Democracy where the Bible is the constitution and the morals of religion is applied but is a choice what one believes as there is no persecution for others

No. Even in christianity "the bible" is not the boss, Jesus is the boss. As in you gey the Holy Spirit and he satarts to talk to you.

The bible is just an instruction manual on how to get the Holy Spirit.

John 14:21 “He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”

or the opposite where we are coming to now where our freedoms and defence is infiltrated through political correctness for extremists to erode such Christian constitutions and then take over as their own. Then we have chaos and riots as such and evil on the streets where misguided youths have no control and the world is in chaos.

Making "the bible" your constitution, instead of the actual constitution, is one thing that has helped to promote some of this.

Even Jesus says to separate church and state: give onto Cesar that which belongs to Cesar and give onto God that which belongs to God.

I like to see how he would run a country under his own laws, he tells the world the wrongs here in the West and yet what is his ideal world? Heaven, maybe to get to heaven we have to earn it to get there, it’s not a switch that sets you free if you rid your self from religion and all laws and sinful nature. We do not have the power to do that and he him self however free he wants to be is still aging like the rest of us as a result of o

Calm down.

Just... be cool

; )

(Not said in anger but in expansion)

David Icke thinks all religions enslave us this is why we are not free, programmed instead. I think some people are afraid of faith abiding to it too much and letting go makes it worse, so people just stay in the middle ground, even the Bible says its worse to believe then reject, it makes you more like a fallen Angel than an ignorant person who never knew. So maybe people are afraid to commit too much when they know they will fall higher because of their human nature and habbits, I thinks its normal, a bit like the parable of the sower.

Christ might not want the credit but he has warned us of false prophets who use his name and live in his shadow. Some of us should thank God, praise the Lord so to speak.

The Bible is the open door to knowing Jesus although the Bible is not superior to Christ it has the power to influence spiritually and if one learns new things its because the knowledge that has been passed on, although Jesus said he will go away, he also said his words will never go away and that is through the use of the Gospels. If a nation believes enough in the Bible I am sure nations that do will be blessed because of the word of God, if the Bible opens to the Holy Spirit then even the governements will benefit, better than without.

Jesus says tell the world about him and when the whole world knows it will be a time of the end, the whole world still does not know about him but if they did I am sure some of the communist citizens and Sharia Law policies of Veils, circumcistion practices, alcohol drinking will be allowed, and other restricted laws will come to an end and with that persecutions of minorities within that faith system if done as Jesus commanded.



[edit on 12-8-2009 by The time lord]

May I be the resident jerkarse of the thread and say........who cares? Not to be harsh, but do you own research, don't rely on others, and you won't have to worry about things like that, just the credibility of your sources for personal research. For now, all we can basically do is look around us and say: wow there are a lot of corrupt people and odd things going on. Things are not as they should be.......that's where we are right now. We know nothing other than that........

Originally posted by The time lord
I don't quite understand David Icke, either he is in denial of Jesus Christ or he is jealous of him because even though he speaks in his name he denies he exists yet says he is similar to him.

LOL

LOL

LOL

Enough said

This thread is not a be all and end all to anything, I know David Icke is a popular subject on this website and I know Religion is too, this is just a conflict of interest thread idea, bringing two viewpoints into the same spotlight for discussion, it does not affect me personally but just to enjoy a meaningful written conversation, it’s just fun to do so, that is the point of a website like this and my intentions are not to stir but to question and to hear what people think of my theories and their theories and input make it fun and challenging. PEACE.

Originally posted by randomguy

Originally posted by rich23


I too thought Icke was a nutter for some time. But as time has gone on his claims have become less and less outlandish. I'm even considering the possibility that the reptilian thing might be on some level correct.

If a statement is heard many times it becomes more belivable, and then even you will forget that it hasnt been proven or anything and you start to think it is the truth.

This is the meaning of this phrase, and it is not a joke:

“A lie told often enough becomes the truth.” Those chilling words were spoken by Vladimir Lenin, a Russian Communist revolutionary and the father of the Soviet Union

This has been restated many ways by many people, and is not at all what I meant.

Just one example: years ago, Icke was talking about people being chipped. This is now starting to happen, People are being chipped to get into nightclubs, Verichip are conducting research on chipping the homeless and old people in retirement homes.

His take on continual increase of control by the state (and by supra-national institutions) is, for my money, bang on. He exposes connections that most of us would miss. I used to think Shami Chakrabhati was a great young lady (and something of a thinking man's crumpet) until Icke delineated her connections with the British American Project.

So before patronising me with such a mundane observation, investigate what Icke has said and whether it has any predictive value. I think it has, but that's JMO.

And to the OP: I have to say I'm disappointed that this thread isn't a link to a Celebrity Death Match, which would have been more entertaining (and just as sensible) as the thread topic.

I'd call it for Icke, as his sporting experience (ex-pro soccer player) would trump Jesus' carpentry skills in the Death Match arena.

[edit on 30-8-2009 by rich23]