Russian planes again fly over U.S. Navy ships

Originally posted by finemanm
It seems that ever since the new administration has taken over, everyone is really testing our resolve. The Chinese harass a US Navy sub-hunter, and now Russian Air Force is playing with AIRCRAFT CARRIERS!!!

I think that the foreign powers are trying to see how far they can push the US until the US pushes back. Unfortunately, I don't think that the "commander in chief" has any Cojones to actually stand up to anyone.

This type of thing has been going on for a long time. Long before Obama was in office..

Russia, Venezuela seal Su-30 deal; US unhappy
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Russian strategic bombers fly over Arctic Ocean on routine patrol
Russian Navy ships heading to Venezuela
Russian Ships to Venezuela in Show of Power

This actually has more to do with Obama having "Cojones" than anything else. That's the only reason the Russians are so frustrated right now.

The geopolitical situation is obviously pretty complex.. But all this is mainly over the international tensions related to the missile defense sheild in Europe. The Russians originally agreed to not put nukes along the border when Obama became president. The Russians were happy at first that Obama was president and everything was peachy (or so they thought). Then, in february, Obama agreed to deploy patriot missiles to that area to defend Eastern Europe instead of waiting for the missile defense sheild to be constructed which will take years to become active.

Russia now has its panties in a bunch and is making all kinds of threats..
This was one of them that is fairly recent..
Report: Russia may base bombers in Cuba

I really get sick of people using anything they see to make anti-obama arguments when they really don't know what's going on in the first place. Anything to attack the man they so deeply hate.
I'm guessing now obama haters will make the argument that he is wrecklessly stearn right?

Alot of this had to do with Bush too. People tend to forget that. The Russians were just about to put nukes along the European border until they saw Obama was going to be sworn into office. They couldn't have been happier. But Obama sent a clear message by deploying those patriot missiles.

I talked about alot of this in detail already HERE+

-ChriS

Originally posted by Now_Then

On Monday, two Russian Ilyushin IL-38 maritime patrol aircraft, known as "Mays," overflew the U.S. aircraft carrier Stennis while it was in international waters in the Sea of Japan.

The Russian aircraft flew about 500 feet over the ship, lower than other flights the Russians have made over U.S. ships in the past year.

Well that's quite a brave move, the article says that on this occasion (and the other similar one a while back with the Bears) the US ship tried to contact the ruskie aircraft on international air frequency radio channels but did not get a response.

This happened just off South Korea... So nothing at all to do with the upcoming N Korea launch (

)

Now forgive me if I'm wrong but arn't carrier's and the support vessles that accompanies them supposed to take down any thing threatening wwwaaaayyy before they do a 'jolly' 500 foot above your flight deck?? - yes I know f-18's were up in the air right with the Russians... But no contact at all?

This could of been a surprise strategy of a suicide attack (nuke?)

Any way's just thought I'd post it.



edition.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

There was no actual threat. The Russians would not launch a sole suicide attack or attack of any kind on a US ship, because it would ignite a war and quite possibly a nuclear exchange. They are crazy, but not suicidal. Neither is the US.

The US ship would have been in contact with commanders back home, who would know if there was an imminent attack, or 'wave', of Russian bombers or missiles or whatever, and therefore they would have classed it as just another "fly over".

If there was a real threat they would have taken it down. But then the war would have already started so it wouldn't make a difference.

Originally posted by Now_Then
Well the Ilyushin IL-38 is used as a sub hunter... Maybe that's got something to do with it. Carrier groups are blatant power... Subs are quite the opposite.

Proper posturing going on here - Let's all watch Obama! See what he does when he gets pushed around.

Good point,maybe the US navy was harasing one of their subs and it was a "back off".Reading what I take is posts from US service people here I would think they would have made contact if they were just mucking around or taking photos. It does seem that the US is getting pushed around a bit.

Originally posted by Now_Then
Well the Ilyushin IL-38 is used as a sub hunter... Maybe that's got something to do with it. Carrier groups are blatant power... Subs are quite the opposite.

Proper posturing going on here - Let's all watch Obama! See what he does when he gets pushed around.

LOL , He goes to the safe, strong arms of the Govenator in California.

Then yuks it up with Leno, I heard there was a nice gaff; I have to catch the replay on YouTube.

Originally posted by stikkinikki

Originally posted by finemanm
It seems that ever since the new administration has taken over, everyone is really testing our resolve. The Chinese harass a US Navy sub-hunter, and now Russian Air Force is playing with AIRCRAFT CARRIERS!!!

I think that the foreign powers are trying to see how far they can push the US until the US pushes back. Unfortunately, I don't think that the "commander in chief" has any Cojones to actually stand up to anyone.

They test every president. Remember the US surveillance plane that China held along with its crew? It is guaranteed that the POTUS will show some major stones. It's been about two months, 46 more months to go.

Maybe that tranny lookin wife of his will but OBimBO?? They walk all over this guy! How many more times does he have to remind banks getting the bail out that it's they're not to take bonus's and they were shakin in therer boots!! What did they do?? They did it again and again!

What did OBimBo say??
"The Buck stops here"

Gee Ya THINK!

I am sick of the bucks stopping there .

When Rahm emmanual was cracking his knuckles at the press meeting and Obama told him to stop that it was irritating, what did Rahm do?

He went right over to Obama and cracked his knuckles right up against OBamaBoZo's ear. Whooaaa I betcha Rahm is skeeeered huh!

Their isn't a damn one of them pantie wasted whuusy wimps in that cabinet that has any stones. The only thing they will feel confident and in control of our young children he kidnaps for his all teenage security force.

I have no Idea what impressed you about this communist

reply to post by Aermacchi


Yes because Obama should take a leaf out of Bush's Book of Diplomatic Tactics, and threaten World War 3 if they don't co-operate with being spied on by US ships in the South China Sea just miles off their territorial waters.

Hey you Russian pilots, respond to our damn radio calls, or its WW3!!!

Originally posted by Common Good
reply to post by Zaphod58

 

What about the lack of communication between the aircraft and the carriers?
Is that explainable?

Yes. The Russians didn't want to talk this time.

These exercises are not secret and all countries in the area of the exercise are notified of the exercise so that no one gets overly excited by the sudden presence of a battle group. When the exercise bounds are set, all intel platforms stay outside the area so as not to cause reason for unintended conflict. The overflights are expected and are nice intercept practice for all concerned. All incoming aircraft expect to be intercepted and carefully note where they were intercepted. Overflights at 500 feet are safe. That altitude means picture taking.

The media report this as a major event because it is not economic news. They need something to talk about.

reply to post by BLV12


Not responding to radio calls is more likely to create an incident than any reaction Obama might have.

TU-95 over the carrier not talking to the F-18s makes what one pilot considers a threatening move towards the ship. He tries to push him out of the way by crowding him, which causes the Bear to react. Bear reacts by turning in to the Hornet, they collide, and all of a sudden we have a Hornet down and a Bear severely damaged.

NOT talking is a hell of a lot more dangerous. While the chances of that happening are pretty slim, it CAN happen, and I still stand by my stance that this is normal and they were in visual communication. I just wanted to show what COULD happen out there if they aren't talking to each other.

Are you aware that the action taken by the Russian pilots, is not actually illegal, and that the Pentagon sees it for what it actually is, muscle flexing by the Russians?

That's a nice little scenario you posted, but it's never going to play out like that.


These sorts of things happened all the time during the Cold War, most went unreported.
The only reason they are being reported now, is because since the end of the Cold War the Russians stopped these things. Now they have resumed them. CNN, FOX, CBS, they need to keep ratings up.

If the Pentagon was alarmed by these incidents, they would take stern measures regarding these incidents. But all we see is the standard press release.

reply to post by BLV12


I do know that they aren't concerned by it and that it wasn't illegal. Have you read my previous posts about how this is a non-event?

There were many close calls like I posted about during the cold war days. One pilot or the other would push things a little too far, and or they would hot dog and get too close. That's why there were negotiations as to what should happen during these intercepts.

Does anyone know what the peacetime rules of engagement for the US navy are? The Russians probably do and they were only letting you know that they are still there. If the Russians did launch a surprise attack they know the response would be devastating. Just boys playing with their toys, hopefully.

But it did get me thinking. What is the tactical situatation world wide, if WWIII broke out?. Nukes aside, it strikes me the US and her allies would seem to be in the same position as the Axis in 1939. All the peices are on the table. With the US ecomony seeming to be broke and with her technology being so expensive, it would seem to me that any battle losses would next to imposible to replace. The Russians and the Chinese on the other hand would seem to have almost umlimited potiencial to expand thier militaries.


By the way, can anyone tell me how to fix my avatar lol


[edit on 20/3/09 by feoil]

Originally posted by feoil
Does anyone know what the peacetime rules of engagement for the US navy are?

Let them shoot first, then shoot back.

By the way, can anyone tell me how to fix my avatar lol

Upload it in the Media center. Once you upload it you can just click a link to set it as your avatar.

To those criticizing the actions of the Russian aircraft - take a look where the US ships were at the time. While exact details aren't given, it is not unlikely that they were not that far off Sakhalin or Russian territorial waters, given that they were somewhere near South Korea.

Now imagine of Russian navy vessels were at sea right near Florida or New Jersey. I am more than sure their every move would be shadowed by US patrol aircraft. In fact when the Russian battleship Peter the Great and its support ships sailed to Venezuela and the Carribean, reports indicate that there were flyovers by US aircraft numerous times, as well as nearby activity by US submarines.


It is fairly normal to keep a close eye on military ships of another nation near one's borders. Sure 500 feet is a bit reckless and rather unnecessary, but you have to wonder where exactly the US ships were and what they were doing there to attract such attention from the Russians.

Ok so what exactly are the rules. I am curious. I would also like to hear about some more real world scenerios such as this guy did this or this guy did that you know funny things that russians and americcans do to annoy each other or to have fun while playing the game. I find all this very interesting.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by WestPoint23

 

For years it was Playboy.

I'm not sure what they're exchanging now. I used to love hearing stories of Eagle drivers taking the magazines up with them and holding the centerfold against the canopy for the Bear pilots.

Just like the old days! "Away the snoopy team, away!"

Their intel trawlers used to collect our trash after we would toss it overboard.

As posted earlier...their birds used to do fly-by's all the time back in the day. Looks like things have gone full circle.

Originally posted by TheEnlightenedOne
As for allowing the IL-38s come this close, well someone allowed this to happen, why? That is the question!

What do you mean allow? Who has the right to not allow them to do a flyover? And how is the US going to not "allow" them to do a flyover - shoot them down? These are international waters, and likely it is pretty damn close to Russia. The US military ships do not have a right to shot down any aircraft in international waters, and if they do they would be in serious violation of international laws - not to mention what it could lead to in terms of relations with Russia.

Sure these are some risky flyovers, but the US navy can do nothing. If the ships are in international waters, they have to put up with such tricks. The seas don't belong to anyone. If they don't like it - they maybe they can play around in the Gulf of Mexico or in US territorial waters, where no one will spy on them.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
I hate to tell you guys but this has been going on for DECADES. The only odd thing here is that they aren't responding on radio. The last time this happened was the USS Nimitz in February of 2008. Prior to that Kittyhawk. Before that it was about every month or so. And guess how many of those were shot down? Even during the height of the cold war.

Anybody? Anybody?

I agree.

One event that does comes though is when a US vessel shot down Iran Air 655 in 1988. In that case the plane also maintained radio silence, however the events took place at the time of a military conflict nearby between Iraq and Iran. Although the US didn't admit its guilt, most countries around the world condemned the shootdown as illegal, and eventually the US paid a settlement.

I am sure those events effected how the US navy deals with perceived threats from the air. And we are not talking about Iran here - but Russia. A similar shootdown could lead to something very serious - something that neither side wants. Regardless of how bravado the US navy considers itself to be - it has to tread extremely carefully when present in international waters, especially if near another country.




As for radio silence - that is indeed not normal. However these are not the Tu-95 that regularly parttake on these missions, so perhaps that could have something to do with it. Maybe the aircraft were being directed by another agency (such Russian border guard rather than the military). Alternatively maybe they were on an actual reconnaisance mission rather than an exercise, which is why they had to keep communications silent.

[edit on 20-3-2009 by maloy]

This is a holdover Cold War game we've been playing for decades, I don't know why these things get so much press.

We park warships close to their coasts, they "observe aggressively" - what do you think we'd do if they had warships hanging around a few miles off Pearl, or Newport News, or San Diego here?

I think it would be a nice way to get a close range airshow by some Hornets and Orions

It would appear to me the US Navy has more to worry about than a friendly commie fly-by. Oooooppppsssss.

news.yahoo.com...

MANAMA, Bahrain – Two U.S. Navy vessels — a nuclear-powered submarine and an amphibious ship — collided before dawn Friday in the mouth of the Persian Gulf, one of the world's most important sea passages for oil supplies.

Regards.....KK

[edit on 20-3-2009 by kinda kurious]

The Russians have always been playing games with other countries. I stated in another post that when your President was up here in Canada visiting Ottawa, a Russian bomber flew into our airspace to be escorted right back out and land back where he came from. Your new President i think has more guts then he is letting people think. I mean lets be honest, you don't go into office with out knowing you might have to press the little red button one day to defend your country.

In recent events with Russian aircraft flying over US Navy boats is probably nothing more then measuring reponse time. They have been doing it since the Cold War. You talking about taking a super country and fighting another super country. The US has enough allies that I don't think Russia is up for a full fledge world war yet.

Basicly, no leader in this world knows what Barak will do. Russians wanna see how far they can push him before he bites back. If that day is to come, I think the US has more backup then Russia can handle.

Greetings from Canada