HR 1388 just passed

Originally posted by SIEGE
reply to post by jibeho

 

You've got to get up a lot earlier in the morning to get over on me.

INFRASTRUCTURE : (And this is for you) " The term typically refers to the
technical structures that support a society, such as roads, water-supply,
sewers, power grids, telecommunications, etc."

Yes, I have read it. And I'm not scared !

Your use of the term "unwilling youth volunteers" is comical.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with training our youth to be self-reliant in
the event of a natural or manmade disaster. How can this be bad ?
They will become valuable citizens as well as valuable individuals.

It all (may) start and stop in the home . . .but, all homes are not alike.

It may target the underprivileged, but it sure targets our neglected
country doesn't it ?

Peace

You're obviously still in bed and half asleeep and probably have been since election day. Just stay there a little longer and soon Obama will come to your aide and tell you that you have to wake up and go to work for him.

Time to wake yourself up and realize what is about to happen to this country.
I just hope you are able to eventually see the forest through the trees.

reply to post by Aermacchi


I'll do it in a heartbeat . . .to your face !

Got a bit upset did you ? Plantlife comes in all forms.

reply to post by Aermacchi

No you're wrong, it is an opportunity ONLY when it is something we WANT to do. Not something we HAVE to do.

you're right.

Except that this proposal is optional. Not mandatory. You're inventing facts that don't exist to further your hate-train.

Sorry, but it just doesn't work on people with 1/2 a brain stem.

A few change in the senate version.

SEC. 1508. AUTHORIZED BENEFITS FOR CORPS MEMBERS.
(B) in paragraph (6), by striking `Clothing' and inserting `Uniforms'; and

Brown shirts as part of the uniforms perhaps?

`(10) increase public and private investment in nonprofit community organizations that are effectively addressing national and local challenges and to encourage such organizations to replicate and expand successful initiatives;

So basically, anyone can give money to increase the size of any part of this force.

`(11) leverage Federal investments to increase State, local, business, and philanthropic resources to address national and local challenges;

Again, but by the government.

`(16) support institutions of higher education that engage students in community service activities, provide service-learning courses, and encourage or assist graduates to pursue careers in public service in the nonprofit or government sector; and

Go along with the government propaganda, more funds from the taxpayers.

`It is the sense of Congress that the number of participants in approved national service positions, including the Volunteers in Service to America (VISTA) and the National Civilian Community Corps (NCCC), should grow to reach 250,000 participants by 2014.'.

250.000 by 2014...

And the whole thing is set up that if they go along they'll have more federal money. What's school will refuse money in this economy? Federal money = federal control. Federal control = propaganda.

`(5) developing civic engagement programs that promote a better understanding of--

`(A) the principles of the Constitution, the heroes of American history (including military heroes), and the meaning of the Oath of Allegiance;

`(B) how the Nation's government functions; and

`(C) the importance of service in the Nation's character.

You know what version the government teaches : Principles of the constitution... yeah we march over it, there's only 2 parties the republicans and the democrats... Heroes of american history: Obama, Bush, Kissinger... Oath of allegiance is of course to the president. Nation government function: the government is god. Importance of service: you must do it, otherwise you're unpatriotic, a terrorist sympathiser scumbag.

`(1) providing technical assistance and information to, and facilitating the professional developement of, teachers and assisting in the planning, development, execution, and evaluation of service-learning in their classrooms;

In their classrooms, because it's mandatory as part of the school curiculum. You can't have your diploma if you're not a good slave and have good grade in slave-learning.

Not in the curriculum right?

`(4) assisting schools and school districts in developing school policies and practices that support the integration of service-learning into the curriculum.

And I just analysed the first section!

Except that this proposal is optional. Not mandatory. You're inventing facts that don't exist to further your hate-train.

You're right, except... if you're in secondary school and your school accept the propaganda, which it will since most teachers love Obama.

So all the next generations until this is repealed will be brainwashed into the system.

Anyway this whole thing is

[edit on 25-3-2009 by Vitchilo]

The word Volunteer is used throughout the bill, but the recipients of funding (States) have a quota. So they will PRESS THE ISSUE in schools

‘‘(f) PARENTAL INVOLVEMENT.—
‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—Programs that receive assistance under the national service laws shall consult with the parents or legal guardians of children in developing and operating programs that include and serve children.

‘‘(2) PARENTAL PERMISSION.—Programs that receive assistance under the national service laws shall, consistent with State law, before transporting minor children, provide the reason for and obtain written permission of the children’s parents.’’.

11 SEC. 1710. STUDY TO EVALUATE THE EFFECTIVENESS OF A CENTRALIZED ELECTRONIC CITIZENSHIP VERIFICATION SYSTEM.
(a) STUDY.—
The Corporation for National and Community Service shall conduct a study to determine the effectiveness of a centralized electronic citizenship verification system which would allow the Corporation to share employment eligibility information with the Department of Education in order to reduce administrative burden and lower costs for member programs.

The Federal Government Not THE CORPORATION

11 ‘‘SEC. 189A. RESTRICTIONS ON FEDERAL GOVERNMENT 12 AND USE OF FEDERAL FUNDS. ‘‘(a) GENERAL PROHIBITION.—Nothing in this Act shall be construed to authorize an officer or employee of the Federal Government to mandate, direct, or control a State, local educational agency, or school’s curriculum, program of instruction, specific instructional content, academic achievement standards, assessments, or allocation of State or local resources, or mandate a State or any sub division thereof to spend any funds or incur any costs not paid for under this Act.

The CORPORATION - NOT HIGH SCHOOL OR COLLEGE

‘‘(b) PROHIBITION ON ENDORSEMENT OF CURRICULUM.—No funds provided to the Chief Executive Officer under this Act may be used by the Corporation to endorse, approve, or sanction any curriculum designed to be used in an elementary school or secondary school.

‘‘(j) CALL TO SERVICE CAMPAIGN.—Not less than 180 days after enactment of this Act, the Corporation shall conduct a nationwide ‘Call To Service’ campaign, to encourage all people of the United States, regardless of age, race, ethnicity, religion, or economic status, to engage in full- or part-time national service, long- or short-term public service in the nonprofit sector or government, or volunteering. In conducting the campaign, the Corporation may collaborate with other Federal agencies and entities, State Commissions, Governors, nonprofit and faith-based organizations, businesses, institutions of higher education, elementary schools, and secondary schools.

24 ‘‘(k) SEPTEMBER 11TH DAY OF SERVICE.—
‘‘(1) FEDERAL ACTIVITIES.—The Corporation may organize and carry out appropriate ceremonies and activities, which may include activities that are part of the broader Call to Service Campaign, in order to observe September 11th National Day of Service and Remembrance at the Federal level.

‘‘(2) ACTIVITIES.—
The Corporation may make grants and provide other support to community based organizations to assist in planning and carrying out appropriate service, charity, and remembrance opportunities in conjunction with the September 11th National Day of Service and Remembrance.

Instruct in 21'st century thinking skills????? = LOL, LMAO, POS, etc....

‘‘(3) In initiating and supporting before-school and after-school programs in low-income communities that may include such activities as establishing mentoring relationships, physical education, tutoring, instruction in 21st century thinking skills, life skills, and study skills, community service, service learning, nutrition and health education, and other activities aimed at keeping children, safe, educated, and healthy, which serve the children in such community.

‘‘(4) EFFECT OF FAILING TO MEET PERFORMANCE MEASURES.—If the evaluation process determines that the recipient has failed to meet or exceed the performance measures, outcomes, and other criteria established under this subsection, the grant or contract shall not be renewed. Any successor grant or contract shall be awarded through the competitive process described in subsection (e)(1).

‘‘SEC. 228. CONTINUITY OF SERVICE.
‘‘To ensure the continued service of individuals in communities served by the Retired and Senior Volunteer Program prior to enactment of this section, in making grants under this title the Corporation shall take actions it considers necessary to maintain service assignments for such seniors and to ensure continuity of service for communities.

1 ‘‘SEC. 125. PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES AND INELIGIBLE ORGA2 NIZATIONS. ‘‘(a) PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES.—A participant in an approved national service position under this subtitle may not engage in the following activities:
‘‘(1) Attempting to influence legislation.
‘‘(2) Organizing or engaging in protests, petitions, boycotts, or strikes.
‘‘(3) Assisting, promoting, or deterring union organizing.
‘‘(4) Impairing existing contracts for services or collective bargaining agreements.
‘‘(5) Engaging in partisan political activities, or other activities designed to influence the outcome of an election to any public office.
‘‘(6) Participating in, or endorsing, events or activities that are likely to include advocacy for or against political parties, political platforms, political candidates, proposed legislation, or elected officials.
‘‘(7) Engaging in religious instruction, conducting worship services, providing instruction as part of a program that includes mandatory religious instruction or worship, constructing or operating facilities devoted to religious instruction or worship, maintaining facilities primarily or inherently devotedto religious instruction or worship, or engaging in
any form of religious proselytization.
‘‘(8) Providing a direct benefit to—
‘‘(A) a business organized for profit;
‘‘(B) a labor organization;
‘‘(C) a partisan political organization;
‘‘(D) a nonprofit organization that fails tocomply with the restrictions contained in section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code of
1986 except that nothing in this section shall be construed to prevent participants from engaging in advocacy activities undertaken at
their own initiative; and
‘‘(E) an organization engaged in the religious activities described in paragraph (7), unless Corporation assistance is not used to support those religious activities.
‘‘(9) Conducting a voter registration drive or using Corporation funds to conduct a voter registration drive.
‘‘(10) Such other activities as the Corporation may prohibit.

I am no expert but these are the things that stand out in my mind. It might be voluntary now but it will be crammed down your throat until you are labeled come undesireable label if you don't comply with "THEIR" VOLUNTEER POLICIES. They will be pushing in schools and churches.

reply to post by rich23

Because it's a "democrat" doing the work, everyone's saying it's communist. This is not correct, simply because the corporations are still going to be in there. In Communism, the state controls the corporations. In fascism, the corporations control the state. Got it now? The ultimate effects are broadly the same when it comes to personal liberty, but it's an important structural difference.

Well, perhaps you have not seen all of the corporations that the US government now owns. For instance, the US government now OWNS 80% of AIG.
Then four days ago, there was this:
business.theglobeandmail.com...

March 20, 2009 at 8:03 PM EDT WASHINGTON — Federal regulators have taken over two large institutions that provide wholesale financing for U.S. credit unions, a move they say was needed to stabilize the credit union system.

Perhaps you are not aware of THIS news item, which has been very well covered across the pond here:

www.washingtonpost.com...

U.S. Seeks Expanded Power to Seize Firms
Washington Post Staff Writers
Tuesday, March 24, 2009; Page A01

The Obama administration is considering asking Congress to give the Treasury secretary unprecedented powers to initiate the seizure of non-bank financial companies, such as large insurers, investment firms and hedge funds, whose collapse would damage the broader economy, according to an administration document.

I call that a move towards communism.
BTW, many of us are not right-wing or left-wing, unless you wish to call those of us that wish to return to the law of the US Cosntitution right-wing or as the Missouri police call us, terrorists.

The US is not very far away from a complete police state, where the government controls everything from the corporations to the food industry (HR 875) to our youth (HR1388- G.I.V.E. (a euphemism for TAKE) to the airwaves(the "Fairness Doctrine- another euphemism) .

Call it what you want, as Tevye would say "It doesn't much matter whether the rock hits the jar or the jar hits the rock, the results are always bad for the jar."

The results will be bad for the US, for sure, and by extension, for the rest of the world. Just as Hitler couldn't stop expanding his control across the border, the current powers will not stop at the US border. Mark my word. I have never been surer of anything in my life.



[edit on 25-3-2009 by ProfEmeritus]

reply to post by Fremd

This is nothing more than another opportunity.

I guess you have never worked in a corporate environment. If you had, you would never make that statement you made. When a corporate overling comes to someone and tells them that he/she has an opportunity for them, the smart worker knows that he's up sh%&'s creek.

Originally posted by Essan
I'm in the Uk, but the way I see it is that kids need to learn a sense of social resonsibility and this may be a way of doing it. And it's no different to indoctorating them in govt propaganda at school (which is all they learn)

Do you object to State schooling?

Why do you object to kids cleaning theor neighbourhood instead of treating it like a trashcan?

Worse thing that ever happened in Britain was the abolition of National Service. I wouldn't advocate a return to that for everyone - but a similar scheme with youngsters carrying out community work might just be the best possible thing to solve an awful lot of youth related problems (drink, drugs, sex, vandalism, murder etc). Wouldn't work in all cases but it;s a try.

And as an aside I have a Stepbrother who was a complete wastrel and had no respect for anyone until he joined the Territiorial Army and got sent to Bosnia. Returned a sensible, responsible adult. In a society where nearly everyone has far more than they need and everything is provided on a plate, it helps them see reality and grow up.

I'm in full support of such schemes.

I disagree because it is my personal belief that the current awakening going on right now with the young people is going to change how they raise their children. My parents raised me well, taught me manners, to respect my elders(which is a very important concept in child learning and growth, my opinion of course), and most importantly respect myself. Self-respect is what many lack. If you don't respect yourself, how can you respect anyone or anything else?

The army is good for some, but not all. Forced community service won't do a damn thing and I'll tell you why. The same way you can not legislate morality, you can not legislate a sense of community. The change western countries need is from within, not without.

The Corporation for National and Community Service shall conduct a study to determine the effectiveness of a centralized electronic citizenship verification system which would allow the Corporation to share employment eligibility information with the Department of Education in order to reduce administrative burden and lower costs for member programs.

Have you done your service citizen? No? No job for you!

instruction in 21st century thinking skills, life skills, and study skills, community service, service learning, nutrition and health education, and other activities aimed at keeping children, safe, educated, and healthy, which serve the children in such community.

You know the government drill: thinking skill: circular logic, government is god, world government is good, the terrorists are gonna get us, global warming is a mortal threat and we've got to reduce the population to fight it, we've got to inspect everyone's houses and control every moves so they don't commit environemental crimes of breathing CO2.

Nutrition... yeah with Monsanto as the head of the agricultural department... GMO are GOOD for you. Healthy... vaccines are GOOD and those who oppose it are crazy extremists christians and must have their childrens taken away.

This is federalization of propaganda and brainwashing of school children.

DISGUSTING.

[QUOTE]‘‘(4) EFFECT OF FAILING TO MEET PERFORMANCE MEASURES.—If the evaluation process determines that the recipient has failed to meet or exceed the performance measures, outcomes, and other criteria established under this subsection, the grant or contract shall not be renewed. Any successor grant or contract shall be awarded through the competitive process described in subsection (e)(1).
No more money from the feds?? You can bet everything you've got that this will be PUSHED VERY HARD on students. It will be vitually mandatory and you'll be heavily punished if you don't because that would mean money lost for the school.

the Corporation shall take actions it considers necessary to maintain service assignments for such seniors and to ensure continuity of service for communities.

Like forcing people to do it.

And this whole thing of ``disaster prepardness``... you can bet that they'll use those ``volunteers`` to do whatever they want regardless of the laws when they declare an emergency. Massive vaccination, confiscation of guns, martial law, ect... this is hell.

[edit on 26-3-2009 by Vitchilo]

Originally posted by dgtempe
I hope you will all listen to me just once.

This is a communist move. This will amount to slavery, unpaid labor God knows where. Believe me, this isnt for your typical SOUP KITCHEN.

I came from a Communist country and this is how they do it.

You have been warned many times by me. I will just stop saying it now.

jesus christ dg - chill out for the love of god - yer like a traumatized cat.

I will chop myself up piece by piece if you or anyone here gets put into a camp because of failure to serve.

Originally posted by dgtempe
I hope you will all listen to me just once.

This is a communist move. This will amount to slavery, unpaid labor God knows where. Believe me, this isnt for your typical SOUP KITCHEN.

I came from a Communist country and this is how they do it.

You have been warned many times by me. I will just stop saying it now.

jesus christ dg - chill out for the love of god - yer like a traumatized cat.

I will chop myself up piece by piece if you or anyone here gets put into a camp because of failure to serve.

I will chop myself up piece by piece if you or anyone here gets put into a camp because of failure to serve.

Well prepare to chop yourself because it can happen if:

1- We let this trend continue, within a few years it will be mandatory
2- If HR 1444 passes, it will be mandatory
3- Following the next terrorist attack
4- Martial law or martial law-like scenario, which we are very near of

reply to post by Vitchilo

Stars for you and LudaChris.
You are correct, that as soon as they execute a false flag, they will mandate service for all.
This country is headed straight to hell, and nothing short of drastic action will stop it. Things are being ramrodded through Congress, without any debate or public input, contrary to what the "Messiah" promised.

Virtually every REAL economist worth their salt believes that this spending binge will bankrupt the country, and yet they continue.

There is no question that Rambo Emanuel is trying to make the US another Israel, with mandatory service, and the state controlling our children.

I believe that the government is pushing the militias to the boiling point.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


The government is not pushing the militias to the boiling point :
"paranoid alarmists" are.

Would you have the current adminstration do nothing ? They can't
possibly have anything good up their sleeves could they ? So more people
lose their mortgages, more companies go out of business, more people
lose their jobs . . . but what the hell . . we wouldn't want to change any of
that would we ? Yeah, right !
BUT, BUT, if we had a chance to fix things, an "opportunity" to help our
economy and an "opportunity" to repair our infrastructure, shouldn't we
at least try ?
Action speaks louder than words. And right now I believe this
administration is actively trying to put out fires that were started in
someone else's administration. Everything they do will not be the magic
pill. But I sure as hell like their "can-do" attitude so far.

To those that worry about communism, and corporate overlings, and
"current awakenings" I ask you to make a list of options that could be used
to buffer you from these hysterical times. Maybe you won't have to tough
it out like the rest of us.

Originally posted by SIEGE
reply to post by ProfEmeritus

 

The government is not pushing the militias to the boiling point :
"paranoid alarmists" are.

Would you have the current adminstration do nothing ? They can't
possibly have anything good up their sleeves could they ? So more people
lose their mortgages, more companies go out of business, more people
lose their jobs . . . but what the hell . . we wouldn't want to change any of
that would we ? Yeah, right !
BUT, BUT, if we had a chance to fix things, an "opportunity" to help our
economy and an "opportunity" to repair our infrastructure, shouldn't we
at least try ?
Action speaks louder than words. And right now I believe this
administration is actively trying to put out fires that were started in
someone else's administration. Everything they do will not be the magic
pill. But I sure as hell like their "can-do" attitude so far.

To those that worry about communism, and corporate overlings, and
"current awakenings" I ask you to make a list of options that could be used
to buffer you from these hysterical times. Maybe you won't have to tough
it out like the rest of us.

Hiring qualified contractors/tradesmen (like me), placing orders for steel, supplies, etc. was supposed to be a part of Obama's grandiose and ill fated stimulus plan. He boasted about creating new jobs to improve the infrastructure of the nation.

I now see what he really meant. "Volunteers" who are paid stipends technically counts as job creation in the eyes of Obama and his handlers. "Volunteers" employed by the govt. is what this boils down to. Cheap unqualified labor. You get what you pay for.

reply to post by SIEGE

Would you have the current adminstration do nothing ? They can't possibly have anything good up their sleeves could they ? So more people lose their mortgages, more companies go out of business, more people lose their jobs . . . but what the hell . . we wouldn't want to change any of that would we ? Yeah, right !

Actually YES, I would like for them to do nothing. They are destroying the free market system, in which failing companies are allowed to FAIL. Good companies will pick up the business, and free enterprise will continue. The bailouts have done nothing to stop those companies from failing. Don't throw good money on top of bad money.

It was the INTERFERENCE of government in the free market system, by Barney and friends, in forcing companies to give mortgages to people that they knew would not be able to pay them, that brought on the financial crisis.

Everything that the government is doing is making the matter worse. "Have you seen the credit market free up? NO!

Will our children and grandchildren be able to PAY BACK the debt and interest that the government is racking up? NO.

Are people getting new jobs? NO

Are companies hiring Americans rather than illegal aliens? NO

Communism and Socialism does not work. Even Putin admitted that when he warned Obama not to run to Socialism.

Sometimes doing NOTHING is the best way to do something.

Originally posted by Vitchilo

I will chop myself up piece by piece if you or anyone here gets put into a camp because of failure to serve.

Well prepare to chop yourself because it can happen if:

1- We let this trend continue, within a few years it will be mandatory
2- If HR 1444 passes, it will be mandatory
3- Following the next terrorist attack
4- Martial law or martial law-like scenario, which we are very near of

I may be into conspiracy related stuff, but fortunate for me the paranoia usually involved does not grace me. I can not think of any of my fellow lefties who would support mandatory service - in fact historically speaking, the spectrum that usually defends mandatory service fall to the right - slavery in the distant past and war time drafts.

My point is without the left OBAMA and the DEMS are adrift... You guys are taking something that could be beneficial and harmless, then socketing paranoia driven speculation devised by partisan babies, IMHO.

reply to post by mental modulator

You guys are taking something that could be beneficial and harmless, then socketing paranoia driven speculation devised by partisan babies, IMHO.

Why do you name-call, and why do you believe that people that are against this are "partisan"?I have little use for either party, and believe that both parties have hijacked the US Constitution.
Furthermore, it IS true that Obama will use these figures to claim that he has created new jobs. That is a FACT, not speculation. In fact, he KNOWS that those numbers will NOT be included in the U2 unemployment figures each month. They will probably be included in U6, but the MSM never reports them. For instance, the Feb. 2009 U6 number is over 16%, but the MSM only quotes the U2 number of 8.1%

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by SIEGE

 

Would you have the current adminstration do nothing ? They can't possibly have anything good up their sleeves could they ? So more people lose their mortgages, more companies go out of business, more people lose their jobs . . . but what the hell . . we wouldn't want to change any of that would we ? Yeah, right !

Actually YES, I would like for them to do nothing. They are destroying the free market system, in which failing companies are allowed to FAIL. Good companies will pick up the business, and free enterprise will continue. The bailouts have done nothing to stop those companies from failing. Don't throw good money on top of bad money.

It was the INTERFERENCE of government in the free market system, by Barney and friends, in forcing companies to give mortgages to people that they knew would not be able to pay them, that brought on the financial crisis.

Everything that the government is doing is making the matter worse. "Have you seen the credit market free up? NO!

Will our children and grandchildren be able to PAY BACK the debt and interest that the government is racking up? NO.

Are people getting new jobs? NO

Are companies hiring Americans rather than illegal aliens? NO

Communism and Socialism does not work. Even Putin admitted that when he warned Obama not to run to Socialism.

Sometimes doing NOTHING is the best way to do something.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Haleiluya ! Haleiluya ! Ha .lei.lu . .ya ! I see the light ! I see the light !
( Let's do nothing . . . the Professor has spoken !)

You've got to be kidding me ! You know and just about everybody on this
forum knows that if the government did nothing, you'd be on them faster
than fleas on a stray dog. So they begin to do something and you cry
foul, communism, etc.

What are you looking for, instant gratification ?

Do you really think the credit market could heal itself that fast ?
Are new jobs created instantly ?

Yes, bad companies should be allowed to fail, but . .how much failure
should be allowed ? Do we want chaos ?

Is that what you're looking for, riots and trouble and chaos ?

Learned individuals should practice a deeper patience, a deeper under-
standing of the workings of our government. Some of you have worked
with or for the government, haven't you ? But you find it so easy to put down don't you ? This administration has only been around a little over
60 days, and yet you feel compelled to judge its actions as if you yourself
have all the answers.

Looking down your nose at people and ideas doesn't get it.

Turning a proposal to make our infrastructure bettter into a witch-hunt for
freedom-takers is over-reaction.

[edit on 27-3-2009 by SIEGE]