no one owes us alot...

Im sure it all seems that way to your viewpoint, because they don't cost anything, freedom is paid for by blood, are you Euro People willing to actually try to get anyone to swallow that hogwash, that poor old america did'nt really save your azzes, come on, it isn't hollywood, its reality, one you should have a glorious oath to friendship with us for, we saved you, im not an idiot or crazy, but i know actual written history, not a plausible un verified conspired non accepted reality. When you pull your blue jeans on its becuase they were invented right here in the USA PEOPLE...Look, I guess one of the things that irrates me the most in this world is how ungrateful all of you people are for what our government , and our people did for you. We went, we rationed, we suffered, for what, a brother, two brothers who oneday would stand and deny our suffering, our successes, why would we continue to want you for brothers, it is you that disbands us, it is you that disgraces us, why dont you stand up like men , not mad jealous little children and admit your backstabbers, not to mention have major problems with telling it how it really is. If there is ever a time machine invented I would return with the words you have thrown at this post and show my forefathers to let Europe Burn.

You see it is this act of pretending that makes us feel so betrayed, and we have the right to feel that way cause up to now its been the USA handing out men, machine, money, GUESS WHAT, its over, we see you hiding, we see the attempts at your people to rewrite history so that there is no debt to be repaid. That is called being Morally Bankrupt, which is ok, declare your moral bankruptcy, We will declare ours, stand on your own undeniable crooked legs.

unbelievable lack of character...

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
I find the 'jealousy' accusation not only maddening and genuinely arrogant but actually nonsensical.

America is the best country on the planet. You are all jealous of our standard of living, our way of life, our freedoms, and our power. When those that don't live here can't have what we have ... they want us destroyed.

I don't care if I'm arrogant about it.
At least I have something to be proud of.

Call it nonsensical if it makes you feel better.
I don't care. (cuz' I'm so darn arrogant. )

who gave you your standard of living, who took it back from German hands? see , everywhere we turn its about us being jealous, want to talk power, we are on top of that game.

Disillusionment must be a French or English Thing.

To the OP,

That statemant,rant,whatever is the exact reason why a lot of countries,people in the world hate America!

reap what u sew... unfortunately the people in power have caused your troubles, time to man up and grow some balls and do something about it instead of sitting behind your computer and whinging about it....

look before we can pick ourselves up mate we need to know why our brothers werent standing there with a hand out to help us up. This post is about bringing to your attention that we noticed.
It isn't a call to war, or anything but an experiment in truth, people always said one day it would all be done in vain, because no one would remember or care, they were right, now you need to own up to that reality, we got the biggest set of balls in the world, we just need to keep them in a cup from on now and not loan em out to you jolly fellows who talk of being Sir this and Sir that, but forgot what being a gentleman even was about, remembering those fallen for your freedom brothers, remembering that blood debt, really in my opinion, since my father is dead an buried, its ok that you guys want to turn your backs, trust me, it wont even be felt, the sun will fade out though brothers when we turn ours from you, and really its only fair that we turn away, your not giving us credit, your not paying your moral debts, you took advantage of your big brother, and now hes going to let you fight your own battles win or lose, its about time. Pompus crap it is that in our time of need you refuse to do anything but watch us sink into the ocean.

BUT ITS A START, BECAUSE IT SHOWS US YOUR TRUE COLORS.
THANKGOD, NO PROMISES OF HELP , JUST GOOD OLD HONEST BROTHERLY BETRAYAL.

IF I WAS PRESIDENT I WOULD PULL EVERY TROOP FROM EUROPE, CALL RUSSIA AND TELL THE PRES TO GO AHEAD AND TAKE WHAT YOU WANT.
IF YOU HELP USA WE WILL ALWAYS BE IN YOUR DEBT, THAT IS A LOAD OF CRAP.

Originally posted by The Lass
reply to post by backyard guru

 

What did you do in the War exactly ? Not a lot I suspect.

I'm very grateful for the US sacrifice during WW2 and since, the suffering of many of its soldiers you & I couldn't even possibly contemplate. I'm not even going to qualify what I say for the sake of debate.

Like most Europeans I'm just hugely appreciative.

But I won't grovel to anyone for events over 60 years ago which are not of my making.

Thank God, someone remembers, we just want what our fathers died for to be remembered, you made my day, and when I talk to my pop I will tell him someone remembered why he died, THANKYOU SO MUCH!!!

edit;removed by poster.

[edit on 17-3-2009 by UmbraSumus]

Originally posted by andre18
That has got to be the most obnoxious bs post iv ever read. Dude, seriously?

Im not going to insult an Auzzie, you guys paid the price too, your forefathers were abandoned English that were imprisoned, our forefathers had to fight for independence from the Brits as well. You see the point is that most Brits could give a tallywag about us, you see to them we are rotten apples, prisoners and traitors to the Queen. We saved her though in that war, they know it, they just don't want to admit it.


[edit on 17-3-2009 by andre18]

Originally posted by TheSilentProtagonist
Grow up man, seriously.

Where's all this comming from?

I cant believe your taking such personal offence at things that happened before you were even born. How do things like the Marshall Plan affect your own personal life in any way? I very much doubt that you can not go to the shop now and buy a crate of beer now becuase Britian fleeced you of your cash........
Go and talk to some actual veterans and see if their as pissed off as you.

Cant talk to me pop, Hes in a crate, he predicted this, just didn't live to see it, thank god for that, sarcasm and satire aside, think about it, isn't it true, does it need to come from a child for you to listen.

wow. just wow

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
I find the 'jealousy' accusation not only maddening and genuinely arrogant but actually nonsensical.

America is the best country on the planet. You are all jealous of our standard of living, our way of life, our freedoms, and our power. When those that don't live here can't have what we have ... they want us destroyed.

I don't care if I'm arrogant about it.
At least I have something to be proud of.

Call it nonsensical if it makes you feel better.
I don't care. (cuz' I'm so darn arrogant.

)

hes only arrogant because hes ignorant

America has fallen far from grace,

the glory days started falling after Kennedy

Originally posted by Merriman Weir

Originally posted by TheSilentProtagonist
Grow up man, seriously.

Where's all this comming from?

My honest opinion is that this has a similar root to popularity of the 'Britain still owns the U.S.!', 'it was the City of London' and 'the Queen Liz did it' type threads. Over the last few years, America has been hurting and it's lead to confusion. The 'American Dream' and America's place as the undisputed #1 country in the world wasn't supposed to be like this. It was meant to go on forever like some prairie sky whilst the rest of the world looked on and marvelled at its way of life.

People are understandably on the back foot over this. They've been raised to think that there really is no other place like the Land of the Free. Unfortunately, for a variety of reasons, this is all crumbling and America's psyche is in pain. People are looking to various quarters for answers. Some blame themselves whilst some blame other Americans: the one's who aren't American enough or maybe too American as well as the 'traitors' and the 5th Columnists amongst them.

Others seem to be subconsciously or consciously looking elsewhere for the answers though. 'It's not America's fault: it's the rest of the world!' The rest of the world was 'jealous' and it is foreign fingers that have picked at the foundations until America started to wobble. Now things have started to become uncertain there's an opportunity to blame 'the older boys': "it wasn't our fault! We didn't do it - it was the fault of the older, bigger boys!"

Apparently, the country that didn't need the rest of the world and thought it was bigger and better than everyone and everywhere else - to the point of scoffing and arrogance - is now pointing fingers because others aren't there to help? Somehow American help - often unsolicited help from a self-imposed 'World Policeman', that's often come with heavy price tag too - now needs to be 'paid back' at a time when the rest of the world is in the same mess as America? A mess in which America is as culpable as anyone else and, according to some, more culpable than most?

How does that work?

Ok so let me get this right, your in the same boat. So asking you for help is useless. Why should we keep our men in Europe when if we are in the same boat, why cant you paddle yours without us? Yes i must be ignorant because my point is plausible, we need to retract our net of protection that has not been respected or even aknowledged. Isolationism is coming back, it will not be our fault either.

reply to post by backyard guru


Your Father & the other American fallen will always be remembered.

One of the most sobering things for me to see, as an adolescent, was an American war cemetery in Northern France. Row upon row upon row of headstones, in what was a magnificently well kept setting, topped off with Old Glory fluttering overhead. The American war dead have never been forgotton, far from it, they never will be either.

But I'm having difficulty understanding what you want of the Europeans today. We recognise the US sacrifice but what do you want of us ?

Money ? To bail out your economy ? Respect ? You got it, your people that is, not their government or failed institutions of course.

But I genuinely don't understand what your need is.

reply to post by backyard guru


Well after only reading the OP, I have a couple of things I would like to bring to his attention.

If you are going to say that we've helped bail out countries from havoc and wars, then yes you are correct. However, the USA never wanted to enter any of the wars in Europe because they were selling weapons to both sides of the conflict.

The things that the USA has done in the past 20 years , IMHO have made it so that the US owe's the world something, not the other way around. So much foreign blood illegally spilt by the USA, all of the false flag attacks in other nations, the economic hitmen, the no-bid contracts using money loaned to countries by the World Bank. The list adds up.

I can agree with one aspect of your post. The US should not be the police of the world. They should be an international leader and precedent resource however, it is not their responsibility to go into every country with a problem and fix it with the military.

I also think that in these times of crisis, the US aswell as every other industrialized nation has a responsibility to pull ourselves out of this mess by working together, not against eachother.

For far too long have we fought over childish things such as imaginary lines in the sand and the rights to a resource that is quickly draining away. Our planet is in peril and our species is soon becoming somewhat of a nuisance to everything we touch.

Asking the rest of the world to pay the US back is a very foolish thing to do, very arrogant would it be for them to assume that anybody owes them anything. So long as the status quo remains the same, we all owe eachother a heck of alot.

Might as well not center around the details....

~Keeper

Originally posted by backyard guru
Ok so let me get this right, your in the same boat.

Not the same boat exactly, but similar boats. A lot European countries (Britain and Ireland included) are also facing a similarly shaky future regarding the economy.

So asking you for help is useless.

Well, if you want money it is, then yes. A lot of our problems - Northern Rock were apparent a long time here before America was seeing mainstream news about its own serious financial problems, and Northern Rock was tied into bad America mortgages anyway- mean it's unlikely we can bail you out. So, in short, no. We've already bought up a load of your bad debt too, I think Britain is one of the biggest holders of American bad debts and you know they won't get called on fast either. What more do you expect us to do?

Why should we keep our men in Europe when if we are in the same boat, why cant you paddle yours without us? Yes i must be ignorant because my point is plausible, we need to retract our net of protection that has not been respected or even aknowledged.

If it's soldiers and military you're talking about, then you can #ing have them back. I daresay our own troops are tired of getting shot at by Americans anyway.

I don't think most countries are particularly happy about American bases either. Our 'special relationship' with America meant that we (Britain) were a human shield for the Cold War and nothing more than a large aircraft carrier for American planes. That's what the 'special relationship' was about, us being first line of defence against the Russians. Like a lot of people my age, I grew up resenting this. After all, whilst many Americans don't like to face up to it, Russia arguably played a bigger part in WWII than America anyway, they certainly made a much bigger sacrifice. We should be as thankful, if not more thankful than we should be to America. Oh, I forgot, the Russians are the bad guys in this, aren't they. The big red bogeyman that threatens the very fabric of American existence! Who is under your bed, backyard guru?

Isolationism is coming back, it will not be our fault either.

This, more than anything else you've said, demonstrates you don't understand a lot of views regarding America. A lot of the world really would like to see you retreat back and get out of everyone's faces and yet you're talking about it like it's a threat? It's not much of a threat when people actually want that to happen.

reply to post by backyard guru


France always stays neutral. They are afraid to gets their hands dirty. We also protected Saudi Arabia. We should at least get an oil discount, I guess getting it under 48 a barrel is reasonable but they aren’t giving it to us. It’s just a supply and demand issue. Them and Iran both need oil to reach 70.00 a barrel to run their economies. I honestly don’t think the world owes us anything. Most of the world hates us for babysitting parts of the world and interfering. We only act when we have political gain. I don’t mean to bicker with you I see it as we owe the world. They have bought all our government toxic paper and debt. China owns most of our CDO’s. They now know they are holding worthless toxic assets. Lets hope they don’t come to claim their property. I don’t want to see the Chinese flag flying in my state. Hillary just sold us out. There are lots of people who think they are somehow “entitled” I disagree. I kind of get what you are saying just think you may have worded it wrong. My forefahers fought and died for the Union and they are pretty much wiped out, after the Reagan era.

Firstly, Battle of Britain occurred before American intervention and declared war on Japan two months before Germany. The invasion of Europe didn't occur for another two years. Churchill proposed the notion of invading Europe, not America.

Also, the supply lines and military aid did not occur until after the Battle of Britain too. Congress still supported a natural stance until the American media, who were stationed in London, praised the bravery of Londoners during the Blitz. Then came Pearl Habour and the rest is history, excuse the pun.

Secondly, the Soviets were the first to reach Berlin. Thirdly, many American banks broke the Trading with the Enemy Act and supplied Hitler with billions of financial assistance.

In fact, the only thing the United States charged for the first few years of the war was 10% on everything we borrowed.

If you combine the total US debt owned by European nations, including British and French colonies, we are the biggest holders of American debt - it is you who owe us.

"Wilson - statistically House is a positive force in the universe."

I feel that quote may be useful in this post. America has done numerous evils to the point where you actually start to think about their global moral conscience and if they intentionally go out in hope to hurt, destroy and enslave others within economic and medical dependancies. I am from England, and thank you America for helping us in the "great" war, but lets face it, no matter how many movies you make - you DID NOT win the war all by your self saving every one else. You saw the war as a big money making opportunity and when the UK was at its weakest point barely fighting off the enemy, getting hit from every where you let us buy some of your ships, ships that you were about to destroy because of there such bad standards and conditions, you didn't just let us buy them thought - you let us buy them at a price as if they were new; you didn't help the UK, what you did was say "either you buy these crumbling wreaks of ships for more than they were worth new and stand a tiny chance or surviving, or we're leaving you to die". So thank you, we really appreciate that. America is by far the most evil and ruthless force that has ever been seen in the history of the human race, yet through out all of its unimagable evil it has done good acts and changed things here and there to the point where you have to say, yes they are doing 95% evil, but that 5% good is revolutionary*. Although i hate to admit it, America is a positive force in the world.

Fox

[My thoughts our of the American government and not of its "joe average" citizens. One other thing i can't help but feel that a thread like this is just started to stir up hostilaties on ATS through out the membership.]
*Numbers made up, just for example.

[edit on 17-3-2009 by ProTo Fire Fox]

reply to post by wonderworld


They will probably be happy to get Hawaii

Few hula shirts and mai tai

reply to post by backyard guru

nothing against you Brits, but have you guys really paid us back for our help?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We've more than paid you back. Every time you lot over there get yourselves in the s*it who do you come running to? That's right, the UK!
And as for your part in the WWII. . . The war started in 1939 and you lot didn't join in, even though Churchill had asked several times, until 1942! And even then you only entered the war because of Pearl Harbour. It was nothing to do with helping the UK.
Rather than crow about it you honestly should hang your head in shame.

Heavy U.S. borrowing has started to crowd developing countries out of the capital markets. I’m not bashing the US, per say, since I’m an American, however now that weve sucked all the money from the largest Countries we are now borrowing from the poorest. I still think it is us who owes parts of the world not the other way around. I’m hoping for a kick back from Iraq though.