Olmec Giant Stone Heads Mystery Solved?

reply to post by SLAYER69


Didn't the natives cross some bridge from Siberia or whatever when they came over here? This would explain why they favor orientals. And would also explain why maps from before colombus depicted alot of the "unknown" world. Besides the fact that the vikings and most of the other people's of the world had been all over.

reply to post by Vicarious10000


You might find this thread of interest...
Ancient America Rocked!

reply to post by SLAYER69


The broken nose theory is quite comical. It also seems as if this idea could only be spawned by someone is grossly uneducated.

Someone once told me that most uneducated or undereducated white American males are trained to claim the achievements of any person they deem white as their own personal success. Therefore, in order to reaffirm their own personal self worth, which is in question, they must find a way to devalue and debase the success of any other culture they deem is beneath them because it jeopardizes their own self worth. Despite being presented with well reputed facts you continue to try to devalue the cultural artifacts of a great civilizations by claiming they created these massive stone heads to revere barbaric athletes.

I believe I have seen through your facade and I politely agree to disagree that this theory of yours has any merit.

reply to post by MaryStillToe



Fair enough.

To each his own.

reply to post by MaryStillToe
\
By your logic, every object from a past civilization has religious signifigance. You would lead us to believe that ancient civilizations worshiped fashion accessories. Sorry, but sports beats religion in popularity, and it always has. I like the sports hero theory, sorry if it crashes illusions of grandure.

i dont see why people still refute intercontinental travel; and why people still claim that there must be a reason personally known by someone they know not personally for actions committed in antiquity. it is impossible to revise a history that you do not know personally.

reply to post by MaryStillToe


do you live in the real world, you do know that sports hero's are some of the most looked up to people alive today. and why is it so hard to believe that people of the past may had a similar affection for their sports hero's. for all we know, stone heads may have been their sport's trading cards.

i don't think they all sat around pounding on stones to prove how great a civilization they were. could be some just liked making art. could it be they are markers of a territory. i could think of at least a dozen other things, they could have been. truth is unless some they have discovered what they are meant for this morning, nobody knows for sure.

and just because some ones line of thinking is not the same as a mainstream science and or other disciplines, does not make that person uneducated or under educated. just different.

Originally posted by Teahupoo
First off I must give you credit for a well researched thread, as a Native American I TOTALLY disagree with the theory that these indigenous people are of African descent. All of the quotes made by another poster here are "THEORIES", not fact.

Here is a quote from one source:

The great majority of scholars who specialise in Mesoamerican history, archaeology and linguistics remain unconvinced by these speculations.[34] Many are more critical and regard the promotion of such unfounded theories as a form of ethnocentric racism at the expense of indigenous Americans.[35] The consensus view maintained across publications in peer-reviewed academic journals that are concerned with Mesoamerican and other pre-Columbian research is that the Olmec and their achievements arose from influences and traditions that were wholly indigenous to the region, or at least the New World, and there is no reliable material evidence to suggest otherwise.[36] They, and their neighbouring cultures with whom they had contact, developed their own characters which were founded entirely on a remarkably interlinked and ancient cultural and agricultural heritage that was locally shared, but arose quite independently of any extra-hemispheric influences.[37]

en.wikipedia.org...

Now, in regards to your theory of them being ball players, I am not so sure about that either simply due to the fact that many of the ball players were part of sacrificial rituals. The game which is known as Pok Ta Pok by the Maya and Tlachtli by the Aztec often ended in the death of the losing team.
The rubber ball only had to pass through the stone hoop once for a victory.

Below is an image that depicts how the game was played, however the actual hoop was smaller, the ball barely passed through which is why only one point had to be scored for a win.




I lived in the Yucatan for sometime and can tell you that the ball court in Chichen Itza is a sight to behold, it is also the largest of all the Mesoamerican ball courts.




Incidentally, near the court there is a square wall which contains a mound which I believe was for displaying the heads of the decapitated losers. The stone walls were adorned with many individual cases which I believe was to honor those who were sacrificed.

www.bbc.co.uk...

As with anything in the past, what we have to go on are artifacts, stories passed down, DNA testing, etc. To date there is ZERO solid evidence that supports the African colonization theory that to me attempts to deny the strong culture of the native people of this continent.

As someone who has also lived in the region I can tell you that the Mayan people in particular have a body structure and a language unlike no other on the planet.

Peace people. Pay attention to what is going on in 2012, it isn't superstition, it is a cycle the earth goes through and ALL of the ancient civilizations knew it and recognized it.

Teahupoo



[edit on 3/14/2009 by Teahupoo]

 

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[edit on Mon Mar 16 2009 by Jbird]

Of course you would disagree. The so called indigenous peoples of the Americas dislike any notion that other people inhabited this land when your ancestors arrived..

Fact: Caucasian remains where found in N.America that predate the pre-columbian people.
Fact: The so called Native Americans demanded legislation making all people that existed in America before the colonist's arrived be put under the domain of the "Native American's".

first-americans.blogspot.com...

And to this day the so called "first peoples" are trying to cover up the massive genocide, worse then the NAZI's, that your ancestors committed against a peaceful people.

I know this maybe hard for some of you, but here is the truth. Its funny how evidence is even not enough for some of you, thats when you need to check yourself.

....the so called African receives very little when it comes to 'certain' versions of history. I deal with facts and facts only so. Here are some FACTS that will allow people to come to their own understanding

Fact : Egypt was a sister empire established by Western African Civilizations. Check out "black genesis" by Robert Bauval.
Fact : The so called "Negro" is not a description of someone that is native to a particular region or land mass.
For example the original autochthon of asia was so called "Negro". There is even additional evidence to suggest that the remains were completely indigenous to the landmass we know today as Asia.
Fact : While the people of Africa are viewed by most of you as 'primitives' because most of them do not use "instruments that are a complete disgrace to science and the planet what so ever", like cell-phones etc.......The are know for using a system of communication that required the use of drums and they were able to send message literally for miles.
Okay last one, I just want to get your mind out of the box.

Fact : There is an underplay of history, including the fact, ethiopia(nubia/kush/(currently unnamed empire) had trade with various people. The main fact I would like to include, the established trade route and contact found in ancient Japan.

For those that assume history is linear, you know where the primitive, stone-using, non-evolved man existed, wandering around aimlessly. Even with this ignorant 'scenario' one can still manage to make it around the world by the way of the 'world winds'. But we all know it takes more than that, Columbus even knew that. Research and you find that every ship has a navigator, and he just happen to be of African descent!?!!?! They were even certain where they landed not based on landmass, but based on identifying people with what they were used to seeing. You mean to tell me, he thought he was in India????Considering ancient american culture of anykind is unlike Hindustani culture of anykind!!?!?!
What does Indian mean considering the native people call it Hindustani??????? Why did the people of anglo-european descent call the native people of Hindustani that word and they didn't call themselves that...well now they do . Indi, Indian-Ink, Indus Kush, Indigo, Indigenous(synonyms are autochthon, native, aboriginal).

So with that being said, and we know Asians crossed the bering strait, but was it the modern day asian that is a mixture of different peoples that have adapted to different climates or was it the autochthon of Asia!?!
Lets consider the fact, the people of the land mass we know today as Africa never referred to the land mass that. The name was given by the way of conquest. So yes, the Olmec were not African, but this does not rule out the possibility that they 'descend' or are actual negro people.

The sphinx has water erosion and the sahara hasn't seen water in over 8,000 years. Dr. Hawass is an idiot to think otherwise . Think of what people had to endure to perfect the knowledge required to build that archaic monument. So, to the very notion of everyone around playing hop-scotch is primitive in itself. Lets open our mind please.
sry for typos

reply to post by AKINOFTHEFIRSSTARS


I want to thank for your very interesting and thought provoking reply.
Many have covered various aspects of you brought to the table. So unless there is absolute concrete prof one way or the other. The history books will unfortunately remain as they are.

I think the Olmecans look like Japanese. The Zuni language is different from all other languages. The only words it has in common with is Japanese. So it could be that all the natives of the Americas decended from Japanese. I suppose a DNA trail would show that. Everybody is part of the melting pot.

reply to post by earthdude




I'm writing another thread on Ancient Japan stay tuned.

Whilst I think it's beyond doubt that the current accepted theory of human migration to the American continents is incorrect and incomplete I find it difficult to accept The Olmecs as African theory for one simple reason; surely if African's had migrated to Central America on such a scale then surely there would be some vestige of DNA evidence?

Whilst I'm not 100% convinced that Slayer's theory that the heads represent sporting heroes of the day is correct it does however strike a chord with current society and certainly warrants further investigation.

reply to post by earthdude


well that would kinda suck,

there wouldn't be many cub fans left!

then again, they might have had a better team sooner!

Originally posted by Phage
One problem with the smashed face theory is that there is other Olmec statuary which has similar facial features but lacks the same headgear and/or for other reasons would not seem to represent ball players.

The "grandmother", I suppose could be a ball player but is certainly of a different style than the heads.
Grandmother

Here are a couple of infants. I don't think they started playing ball this early in life:
Babies

It could be that rather than representing injuries, the similarities actually do reflect racial similarities. Or, if the Olmec did not really have african origins it could be nothing more than familial. A bloodline of kings (and sports stars) would tend to have similar features. Still another possibility is that these african-like features were admired by the Olmec and used to idealize the images of their heroes.

[edit on 3/14/2009 by Phage]

well recent findings of archeology state that when modern man did migrate out of Africa some 200-300K years ago they all were of black skin and after thousands of years and i mean thousands that changed .....remember it was thought very odd that the Egyptian paintings with the elongated heads was just not true of the actual person yet we have elongated head doings of Peru ....the piris reis map of 1500's made form ancient source maps handed down form the ages....and you just dont see much in way of african-ness in many of the indigenous people today....if sea levels were in fact 300-400 feet lower at zenith of ice age is it not at least plausible if you see these ancient civs beginning or at the equator for a reason.

the below certainly does look Egyptian and what if the Egyptians really did travel to central America and even down to peru where the elongated heads seems to be a kind of veneration of the Egyptian pharaohs , add to that the ancient copper mines of the Americas....well it would make a grand movie would it not?


Now think tobo near extinction event and what havoc that would have wrought to a civ of the day...

reply to post by Logarock


I just found this thread and even though it's ages old I had to reply just to say that I agree on you on this Logarock.
The smashed face theory was one of the dumbest things I've read in my life, no professional football player, boxer or mma fighter has looked African after a good beat down. It's absurd, I'm a native African I can say that those huge Olmec heads look more like me then any Mexican I encountered during my visit there (yes I even went to see several Mayan cities with the awesome ball courts) and even the Mexicans will tell you that they really don't who where they originated from meaning they were not from there. The first great gods of Egypt were nubian, Africans of the darker kind and if you people do some research you will see that there are lots of fascinating places will of intriguing history in Africa as well.

Honestly, there have been a huge mix of statues and painting showing too many confusing pics. Some look 100 percent african and others have Asia written all over them.
They could have joined forces back then or one could have colonized the other beef a big crusade that resultade in a south American takeover. Who knows??

Excuse the spelling, my iPad gets confused when I jump from Sweden to English without changing the language.

One day we will get some answers about these guys but until then let's let use our imagination too much.

reply to post by Eniii


This is one of my favorite homegrown theories. I think this thread should be applauded. I have disscussed this theory with others and they can see how remnants of an old civilization may be misconstrued. If today's society was burried, the excavators of the future may think we worshipped football. Olmeca may have been just another OJ Simpson, forgotten sports relic.

reply to post by Eniii


Howdy Eniii

If you go to that region of Mexico, as I have, you will see people with that feature, a flatten face. The genetics are meso-American from an Asian source. There is no sign of any African influence anywhere in the archaeological record, nor in Africa of naval tradition to allow their travel to here.

There are 17 of these well known Olmec heads - here is a question for you, of these 17 how many look 'African"?

A detailed response to Olmec's as Africans

In regards to the original post: -- I was wondering if any ancient civilizations memorialized their "sport" stars considering we do in various mediums like baseball cards and statues.

Originally posted by PhoenixDown
In regards to the original post: -- I was wondering if any ancient civilizations memorialized their "sport" stars considering we do in various mediums like baseball cards and statues.

They are in some of the art