Black people 'less intelligent' scientist claims

Originally posted by Code9
Regardless of what this guy has accomplished in the past he either has no idea what he's talking about when it comes to this intelligence issue or he's just senile. As a candidate for a Masters degree in the field of adult education with a minor in social psychology I can tell you when I first began my college ed

He's the doctor/scientist that discovered DNA and how it works... and you are saying you (without even a master's degree) know more than him? lol. Some people these days...

I think the guy that discovered DNA might know what he's talking about when it comes to genetic intelligence. Of course, suddenly now that he speaks the truth and not what people want to hear, he is "senile or crazy".

LOL.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

what the hell is this? did you make this yourself? jeeze how extremely bias and inaccurate this map is. Yes yes yes lets compare little Johnny from a village in the congo where they lack proper schooling, health care or opportunity for work, where they have been robbed of equality for generations by the colonialists, where they have been war stricken and lets compare them to good ol southern boy fat kid Ben who has all the education, health insurance and attention a white child could ever recieve.

Ok, so answer this question. WHY does little Johnny from a village in the congo not have schools to begin with? The other people from more advanced nations created schools and education, why couldn't Johnny's people create schools and education? Could it be they are less intelligent and are not capable of it?

It's not like aliens came from outer space one day and gave white people schools and education. They created it, they invented it and gave it to themselves and their people. Why can not the Africans do this for their people? Can you answer that? So you see the whole "They aren't educated!" excuse doesn't work either. Whites and Asians were not educated at one point in time either. So they created education, because they were capable of it.



The colonization excuse, also does not work. Again, I ask WHY were they colonized? Why did they allow it? It's because they were primitive enough to be colonized in the first place, that's why. If they were just as capable as the colonizing race in intelligence, they would not have been colonized. The weaker people are the ones that are colonized, the stronger ones are the colonizers.

Health care... again, why don't they give their people health care? It's because they don't know how to, they are too dumb. White people didn't have health care when they set foot on this planet either. They created it, because they were intelligent enough to do so.


I expect all of this to go over your head any way.


You must learn to think outside the box, and ask questions. Instead of saying that fat southern boy Ben has healthcare and education, you must ask WHY he has healthcare and education. It's because his people are more advanced, and created those for him.





[edit on 13-3-2009 by Geneticist1945]

I also adhere to the belief that what divides us more are the cultural aspects of these societies. Now, as far as one race being intellectually inferior...I don't believe that for a second. There's simply too much genetic diversity in Africa to make such a claim and I doubt he has managed to study every genetically diverse group in that entire continent. This is just pseudo-science aimed to start racial conflict.

[edit on 13-3-2009 by laiguana]

reply to post by MrAnonUK

The 79-year-old geneticist said he was “inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa” because “all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really.".

Is this guy for real, OUR SOCIAL POLICIES. LOL.
Yeah, a real hall mark of intelligence. It gets even funnier.

Our wanting to reserve equal powers of reason as some universal heritage of humanity will not be enough to make it so”.

We all know how different our reasoning is to Africa's. I mean our intelligence reasons its ok that we allow corporations to patent a plant that Africans have used as staple for centuries, I really like that as a universal heritage.
Maybe I am being harsh though, I mean this guy could be onto something, but then again, the articl in the OP goes on to say this.

Dr Watson is no stranger to controversy. He has been reported in the past saying that a woman should have the right to abort her unborn child if tests could determine it would be homosexual.

Its funny though that he is selling a book, I wonder how much coverage his comments will generate.

You can see and hear James Watson talking about his new book Avoid Boring People at the following venues:

Pathetic.


[edit on 13-3-2009 by atlasastro]

Originally posted by Geneticist1945
Ok, so answer this question. WHY does little Johnny from a village in the Congo not have schools to begin with? The other people from more advanced nations created schools and education, why couldn't Johnny's people create schools and education?

Because little Johnny’s people do not have the money, people little Johnny’s land had been robbed after years of colonialist rule and the exploitation of his because, because ever since the colonialists packed up and left they had created a society that had never had an opportunity to educate themselves even during colonialism, that Johnny’s people had their own sense of cultural education prior to colonization until the colonialists decided to come in, totally disregard their culture, invade their lands, exploit it for centuries, then leave it once they have raped the land and the people and in their place they left a cycle for the Congolese people that is complicated to get out of.

Could it be they are less intelligent and are not capable of it?

Your willing to pay back the billions in dollars taken from their land after decades? Heck we can blame their politicians but let’s not forget where this started. How the hell can you say "oh why doesn’t his people make school and educate him like the one in big bens town?" Are you thinking this theory through? Oh are you?

It's not like aliens came from outer space one day and gave white people schools and education.

It’s not like God himself came down one day and gave white people the authority to go around the world raping the lands and cultures of other native peoples and putting them in a cycle of poverty and education. You do know quiet strangely the aboriginals, native Americans and Amazonians are going through an exact same issue as Africans? Why do they share the same issue? Why don’t you think clearly about it?

They created it, they invented it and gave it to themselves and their people.

Their people invented and created by going around the world and stealing ideas from various cultures over the years. And Ill say this again, nobody told the Europeans to travel around the world to rape the lands and the cultures, maybe we should just all go back to Europe for complaining about multiculturalism and helping the very people that thy European ancestors raped and excluded and took over... huh? Or is there no responsibility?

Why can not the Africans do this for their people?

Why did the European leaders do such horrible things to their own people during two world wars, a civil war and recently the Balkans war? Better yet lets go so further to argue what is there to do with an African leader who knows how far down his nation is and who utterly has allowed himself to fall down to corruption?

Clearly you don’t understand the biological irrelevancy of race I just posted before, clearly you refuse to look towards the history of white colonialists and how they decided to involve themselves in the rest of the world for all these years then once they have turned their backs after raping the lands across the globe, they have no responsibility and the arrogance to call on this outdated garbage as some excuse.

Again. The map is a joke.



[edit on 13-3-2009 by Southern Guardian]

Originally posted by laiguana
This is just pseudo-science aimed to start racial conflict.

This is what Im wonder... if this guy is really as good of a scientist or geneticist as claimed I mean seriously how could he miss out the utter genetical and biological irrelevency of lumping all africans into one group let alone make such a stupid claim and obviously neglected the obvious circumstances and biasness.

Honestly now... so damn glad the mans that old. Just shows the old ones never change.

Theres a star for you.

Seventy nine year olds aren't as smart as they once were either. What a stupid and divisive thing to be putting out for public digestion...makes me sick.

We've all met plenty of stupid people of all kinds and plenty of smart people of all kinds and all those in between. It often has to do with their childhood opportunities, including nutrition and a sense of love and security apart from any genetic component.

If you think about it societies would not function if we all had the same intelligence levels as there would be a distinct lack of diversity as well as a lack of people willing to do the jobs that really hold civilisation together, which are in fact the more basic ones.

Here's one to consider. Go to the Australian outback. Its a VERY harsh environment. Now the Aborigines not would be considered super smart, BUT, you would be absolutely astonished at their ability to survive one of the harshest environments on the planet.

A white person might come along and say these people are not so bright - that is until that same white person gets lost in the bush. What then? What does a PHD get you then? You cant drink a PHD, and you cant eat one either. A PHD wont keep you warm at night and cool in the day.

A couple of days later 2 aborigines are walking along and stumble upon this white guy, laying there thirsty, hungry on the edge of death.

One looks at the other and says ..."These white folk aint that smart" .....

Originally posted by Geneticist1945

You can laugh, but he's 100% correct.

We treat these creatures of lesser intelligence the same, but look what happens. Crime, murder, rape, theft everywhere. They don't know any better, they are just animals.


If we treated them based on their intelligence, we would keep them separate from us and out of our society. We would no longer have to deal with the problems of murder, rape, and theft in high amounts.

Look at Detroit, for example.

2) Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive, hateful and/or racist manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by ghaleon12
Wealth correlates to educational performance to a large degree, demonstrating the environmental factor.

Hmmm.... explain to me - Paris Hilton?

IRM

Originally posted by Geneticist1945
Ok, so answer this question. WHY does little Johnny from a village in the congo not have schools to begin with? The other people from more advanced nations created schools and education, why couldn't Johnny's people create schools and education? Could it be they are less intelligent and are not capable of it?

Quite the opposite actually, Little Johnny's people once had great agricultural centers and advanced building technologies (all of which require schooling of some sort), until Cecil Rhodes moved in and de-industrialized the area; forcing the people out of skilled labour and school, and onto the field to pick the raw materials to be shipped back to his own home.

Pick up a history book for once, something that doesn't walk on the side of Eugenics.

It's not like aliens came from outer space one day and gave white people schools and education. They created it, they invented it and gave it to themselves and their people. Why can not the Africans do this for their people? Can you answer that? So you see the whole "They aren't educated!" excuse doesn't work either. Whites and Asians were not educated at one point in time either. So they created education, because they were capable of it.

Sure I can answer your loaded questions for you. Education levels (like any other social programme) is relative to the level of social conditions. If the relative conditions favor the wealthy; all workers are paid subsistence wages, barely enough to feed themselves let alone their families. How can they're be education of the young or old? If the relative conditions favor the common man; he works for a decent living, he can afford to pay for the necessities of his family, and education is an option for his kids. These are not hard concepts to understand.

The colonization excuse, also does not work. Again, I ask WHY were they colonized? Why did they allow it? It's because they were primitive enough to be colonized in the first place, that's why.

You have no understanding of Geo-Political forces during Africa's Colonization, or now, so stop acting like you do.


Africa was colonized not because its people were stupid, but because its technological and political education was not geared towards force and violence! Africa had all sorts of advanced methods of agriculture and building technologies, as well as deep cultural heritage, rituals, and backgrounds. That is until a colonizing force rode in on ships with cannons and guns and swords. None of the advances Africans had made mattered when Rhodes moved in with his band of cutthroats. They were too busy slaughtering the native denizens and raping the native women. Advanced indeed. The only advance whites from Europe had over blacks from Africa was excessive force and violence.

If they were just as capable as the colonizing race in intelligence, they would not have been colonized. The weaker people are the ones that are colonized, the stronger ones are the colonizers.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Go back to grade school.

Health care... again, why don't they give their people health care?

First, Africa as a nation is engulfed with debt. Predominantly because White power holders in the IMF and World Bank lent Africa exorbitant amounts of money at Usurious interest rates, making it virtually impossible for a struggling nation to pay it back. When Africa couldn't repay the debt, the organizations called for "economic restructuring" which is euphemism that basically calls for harsh austerity programmes. Money was re-routed from the poor and needy, to the business sector; creating roads from the mills to the shipping ports, closing small local markets in favor of big international sellers.

Add to this the rising number of Africans suffering from AIDS, TB, and a host of other serious illnesses, Africa can simply not afford free health care for all its citizenry. And this isnt even touching upon issues of tribalism.

It's because they don't know how to, they are too dumb. White people didn't have health care when they set foot on this planet either. They created it, because they were intelligent enough to do so.

Actually the working man demanded health care from the rich robber barons because of the relative condition of labor vs capital. And it wasn't just as if someone waved a wand and all was well in the White world. It took YEARS to win those freedoms and necessities from the upper class. YEARS of democratic struggle, of riots, strikes, and sit ins. YEARS of harassment, beat downs, disappearances, and outright murders by the police and para-military forces. And WE ARE STILL FIGHTING those same battles every day.


Your posts have left a bitter taste in my mouth. Your crypto-fascist double speak would have served The Third Reich well had it comes 80 years ago.

I knew i had read this thread, or one similar to it, before.


www.belowtopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Geneticist1945He's the doctor/scientist that discovered DNA and how it works...I think the guy that discovered DNA might know what he's talking about when it comes to genetic intelligence.

Uh, he helped discover DNA's workings, when in fact the basis and foundation of the Work done by Watson, Crick and Wilson came from an '___' trip in which Francis Crick was shown how DNA works and told to study it further. And almost 100 years prior to Watson Crick and Wilsons work, was when DNA was really "discovered" by a swiss dude, i forget his name. Point is, alot of research went into DNA, this guy was one of a few.

As for the subject matter of the op, who cares? Seriously, what affect does this have? i can only see it as a negative thing. Wheres the positive? i don't even think its true.

As for this whole idea about people moving to northern climates become more intelligent to survive, and those remaining near the equator had no need to evolve in this way, thats interesting. but as one post stated, these darker skinned humans retained a more spiritual worldview.

If by moving north and south of the equator, caused a gain in intelligence, but a loss in spirituality, thats not a really good trade. Because look where its led us. Europe was the starting point for the downfall of man. Maybe there is some credence to what is being said. Maybe "white" humans became too intelligent for their own good, and not spiritual enough. Less compassion, more cold hearted. thus we have murdering of indigenous peoples, colonization, religious intolerance, greed on a biblical scale.

Intelligence at the cost of humanity, no thanks. i'll take compassion over control any day.

love and light

In my own opinion, the way the IQ test was developed and evolved needs to be reconsidered, we all know that exceptionally bright individuals, genius and prodigy exist across all races, as well as exceptionally ignorant and so called not so bright individuals i would say the professor using and expounding on the findings is lacking in some mental competency because he is not using all available factors in making such a blanket statement, I never believe these studies, one component that definitely cannot be ignored is laziness and motivation, I do believe that the mental capacity of any human being does not have that great of a difference as with any other organ across cultures, I think that the way people think and view who or what is intelligent needs great scrutiny, real intelligence needs to be judged at a certain age long before adulthood, reconciled with what is taught and absorbed in a disciplined environment then assessed again either in adolescence or early adulthood.

One of the biggest factors in intelligence to me after you take into account natural gifts or pure ability to reason is discipline to learn and applying thinking in real world situations.

Just my 2 cents.

This is mere propaganda from those privileged set who would really like to see everyone amongst the working class suffering the same fate, and have worked double shift almost to cripple the US education system and hence US IQs have been falling overall.

If you google IQs and the 20th century, there is a huge amount of data about the last century seeing IQ leaps of 10 points every decade due to improved social conditions, education and health care. So, naturally, there is another solution. Hmmmm .... I wonder if its equalizing everyone, and creating a world of well cared for citizens. Might have to curtail all the activities of the bloodlines and cartel, but then I'm all for that.

Well like I said in my post on the first page this was going to be entertaining and it has,

We have heard everything from typical stereo typing to scientific studies and I have yet heard a real argument that says little johnny from the bush cant get a PHD, when he is given the opportunity and has the same stable home to do so from.

I agree that little johnny from the bush in Africa has major social and economic hurtles to over come to reach an educational level that is comparable to that in the west. But that argument of whether or not they are simply dumber than the rest of the races has simply not been proven.

Also as it has already been pointed out rather masterfully with the descriptions of the Australian aboriginal bushmen who are absolutely suited for their environment which is obviously not the halls of Yale or Wall Street and the other about Paris Hilton who unless she has her Gucci hand bag and flashbulbs going is completely lost in hers!

I say unless you have everything completely equal there is really never anyway to determine if this scientist OPINION is truly valid.

reply to post by M157yD4wn


You ask concerning the OP 'who cares,' I care, due to the nature of the question. It has certainly created an interesting debate for a variety of reasons, without going into all of the reasons for why I personally find it interesting and worthy of debate it has ultimately left me pleased with how high the majority is that in my eyes can contemplate the issues fully.

This topic has accurately portrayed that the large majority as myself find these comments baseless, and wholey impossible to determine through any current methods of testing overall knowledge capacity.

It also also opened my eyes to other variables I hadn't previously considered, along with being largely comforting in the knowledge that it will not have been used by all in a counter productive manor.

As for Geneticist1945 ...

... hi mate, you are entirely entitled to your own beliefs even in the face of clear massively overriding considerations. But, may I ask you one question that may well require quite a deep answer please.

I would just be interested to know, how do you view your considerations of regional locality and historical influences to have a lasting effect upon a peoples intelligence. Primarily, do you believe given current day educational and monetary differences that your beliefs can be proven without equality on all of the variables?


[edit on 13-3-2009 by MrAnonUK]

reply to post by SLAYER69


I'm with you entirely. In particular the closing comment, I cannot see any way of determining this as we do not currently hold any way to determine how much knowledge is held in an individuals brain.

OR am I wrong, certainly all the IQ test I have come across would not determine a true level on intelligence as questions would have to vary too much to draw out knowledge from cultural backgrounds, ultimately leaving you with a non-factual result.

Are their any ways currently held in this age that we can accurately determine, knowledge retention rates and potential knowledge capacity that I'm clearly unaware of?

I really believe it is the culture.
Second line...