Muslims in the UK

Originally posted by northerngate


What part in particular do you have a problem with;

Sharia law and faith come first: Show me a Muslim that believes this to be untrue.

The two who are living with me at the moment.

Not race: The Muslim faith is multi racial

Did I mention race? I said bigot. Obviously race is in your mind, I think you need to come to terms with your prejudices.

As to the BNP references, I would like an apology for this. I live and work in a multi cultural city, have in laws that are none Aryan and my own family tree cannot be described anything other than mongrel.

Not a chance, especially when you go on to state:

I’m thinking of voting BNP in the next election

... you do not have to be an Aryan to be a member of the BNP, just white and British. To even contemplate a vote for violent nazi thugs and terrorists is inexcusable, and creates even more problems.

This site turns a blind eye to hate speech and scaremongering when it comes to the Islamic faith, if I said "Jews view us all as cattle and are only interested in money" and have no supporting evidence my post would be removed within minutes and points deducted.

Originally posted by Goathief
[This site turns a blind eye to hate speech and scaremongering when it comes to the Islamic faith, if I said "Jews view us all as cattle and are only interested in money" and have no supporting evidence my post would be removed within minutes and points deducted.

So what are you saying that the whole ATS anti-Muslim trend is down to the Jews?

I find this very hard to believe.

Originally posted by northerngate
So when a Muslim woman is physically beaten into submission do you think that she will disagree with the dispute being held under Sharia law?

[edit on 12/3/2009 by northerngate]

But if a woman is being beaten and forced into one decision why would there be a need for a hearing under sharia law?

It's a valid concern and one I've shared but in the end can't this be applied to any voluntary proceeding?

Originally posted by Goathief
To even contemplate a vote for violent nazi thugs and terrorists is inexcusable, and creates even more problems.

But so does ignoring the legitimate concerns and problems that you seems to be flat out denying. Instead of arguing the issue you’re just branding people racists.

It is this that is driving people into the arms of the BNP. If people can’t rely on the current political options to safeguard free, frank and open speech on any topic including Islamic extremism and integration then they will look for an alternative.

The sad fact seems to be that the supposed liberal parties that are supposed to represent the working class and the middle classes only seem to care about minorities, and to heck with the average person anymore. Labor in the UK and the Democrats in the U.S. seem to not only to not care about the average person, but seems to hold a great deal of contempt for them. There are these liberal elitists who have taken over these parties and are anything but liberal. These liberal elites are so completely conformist, educated in a manner in which conformity is paramount above all else, that they ignore facts, logic, or reason.

Basically, the average person isn't getting represented anymore. Conservatives still work primarily for the rich, so where does the average person turn to these days. Here in the states we need another Andrew Jackson.

Originally posted by northerngate


Only publicly, her German ancestry is pagan; which explains the collapse of the Christianity in the UK and Charles’s open newage guise.

As for parliament why do you think it’s opened with a black rod?

Yes that is very true, but saying that the whole Christian thing is supposidly based on Paganism (depending on who you believe)

No idea about the iron rod? would you like to elabrate?

Originally posted by Mike_A

But so does ignoring the legitimate concerns and problems that you seems to be flat out denying. Instead of arguing the issue you’re just branding people racists.

The problems are nowhere near as bad as some would have you believe. I did not call anyone racist on this thread.

Can you tell the difference between the following sentences?

• Muslim extremists have no place in British society and something should be done about it.
  
• Muslims have no place in British society and something should be done about it.
  

If you can't then you are part of the problem. If you can but carry on defending the above anyway, then you are an even bigger part. If you can and are a decent person, you will be able to understand my previous posts and have no objections to the points I made.

Originally posted by northerngate
So what are you saying that the whole ATS anti-Muslim trend is down to the Jews?

I find this very hard to believe.

Pathetic.


[edit on 13-3-2009 by Goathief]

Originally posted by DodgeG1
Let me start off by saying I'm not a religous person, never have been and never will. But I'm very interested in religion and I've been studying it for a few years now. I'm not here to mock anyones beliefs as everyone is different and I respect that.

What is surprising me as of late is the way the muslims are now being treated in the UK. They are almost untouchable. Everyone seems to be scared of them. Why is that? We see them on TV nearly everyday stating their beliefs and if anyone argues with them they are labeled a racist?

As far as I'm aware the UK is a Christian state (correct me if I'm wrong) so why does the Queen and Parliment allow this? I'm sure if this was the case a few hundred years ago then there would be a war as it would be treated as an invasion. But now they give muslims a house, cars, phones and money to stay in the UK.

Is there something more sinister going on in the background that we don't know about? maybe they want a big mixed religious community that are fighting each other all the time? Or are they scared of the muslims?

Your thoughts please as none of this makes sense to me?

More of the same, why are these threads increasing. I'm worried, was it the same before in ATS??

Originally posted by Goathief
The problems are nowhere near as bad as some would have you believe.

That depends on who you are talking to but there is most certainly a problem to one degree or another.

Originally posted by Goathief
I did not call anyone racist on this thread.

Well you said the OP was rubbish with racist undertones and claimed another poster was a BNP member (pretty much a synonym for racist), pretty much the same thing in my book but either way you’re still not tackling the issue. All you’ve done is denied that anything is wrong, disregarding any evidence to the contrary (such as the report I posted earlier), and made ad hominem remarks.

Originally posted by Goathief
Can you tell the difference between the following sentences?

• Muslim extremists have no place in British society and something should be done about it.
  
• Muslims have no place in British society and something should be done about it.
  

If you can't then you are part of the problem. If you can but carry on defending the above anyway, then you are an even bigger part. If you can and are a decent person, you will be able to understand my previous posts and have no objections to the points I made.

This is exactly what the OP was referring to, while I disagree with much in his post you have provided proof positive of his general point.

Look at what you’re saying; if I disagree with you I’m not a decent person. You’re just trying to block any response which is exactly what has got us into the current position.

In reality I fall into the fourth option which is I can tell the difference, I am a decent person but I am capable of arguing the relative merits of a position instead of just calling people names and denying anything that they have to say.

Originally posted by Goathief

Originally posted by northerngate
So what are you saying that the whole ATS anti-Muslim trend is down to the Jews?

I find this very hard to believe.

Pathetic.
[edit on 13-3-2009 by Goathief]

What is? Your claim states that hate speech about Muslims is OK, while it’s not tolerated for Jews. You isolated Jews rather than just state any other cultural group, this insinuates a negative bias towards that group and that they are somehow involved, as it has a privileged position.

Originally posted by Mike_A

This is exactly what the OP was referring to, while I disagree with much in his post you have provided proof positive of his general point.

/snip

In reality I fall into the fourth option which is I can tell the difference, I am a decent person but I am capable of arguing the relative merits of a position instead of just calling people names and denying anything that they have to say.

No, you fall into the second group for allowing bigotry and hate speech to go unchecked.

The posters I have issues with do not differentiate between your average Muslim and an extremist. What is so hard to understand about that?

reply to post by northerngate


Fail.

Originally posted by Goathief
No, you fall into the second group for allowing bigotry and hate speech to go unchecked.

The posters I have issues with do not differentiate between your average Muslim and an extremist. What is so hard to understand about that?

But that is not the point of the thread. I said in my earlier posts that I think the OP was imagining a homogeneous Muslim agenda that doesn’t exist and that I disagree with tarring all Muslims with the same brush. But you ignore that and claim I’m allowing bigotry to go unchecked in what I must assume is an attempt to divert away from the subject.

The discussion is about how the government, and to a lesser extent society, deals with the Muslim population and elements thereof. On that topic there are valid points to be made, you skirt past them all to have a go at the poster.


What do you have to say about the issues raised in the report I posted earlier for example, are they none existent?


[edit on 13-3-2009 by Mike_A]

[edit on 13-3-2009 by Mike_A]

Originally posted by poet1b

The sad fact seems to be that the supposed liberal parties that are supposed to represent the working class and the middle classes only seem to care about minorities, and to heck with the average person anymore.

Well, the Liberal Party has its roots in the Whigs, who weren't really representing the working or middle classes.

Labor in the UK and the Democrats in the U.S. seem to not only to not care about the average person, but seems to hold a great deal of contempt for them. There are these liberal elitists who have taken over these parties and are anything but liberal. These liberal elites are so completely conformist, educated in a manner in which conformity is paramount above all else, that they ignore facts, logic, or reason.

Well the 'Labour' party that exists now really has little in common with the Labour party of old. It's no great secret and, to be fair, they're advertised as such. Hence why they're actually referred to as 'New Labour' or 'Nu Labour'.

Basically, the average person isn't getting represented anymore.

Anymore? Were they really ever genuinely represented at all.

reply to post by Mike_A

Actually, Mike, that Telegraph article you posted provides a disturbing look into the media's role in messing about with things. Take this quote, for example:

Stop pandering to enemies of our way of life
Other newspapers showed a group of watching women enveloped in abayas and niqabs.

In some ways the silent women were the more potent image of what disturbs readers of broadsheets as well as tabloids, their dress providing an in-your-face statement that they consider themselves proudly separate from the rest of us.

Is it just me, or is there something basely foul about condemning an entire group of people because of the way someone dresses? Why shouldn't someone where full-length clothes if they feel like it? Have we gone so far down that we have to define something like "Freedom of Clothing"?

Anyhow, while I admit I don't know the details, the whole episode seems absurd to me. Why shouldn't anyone protest whatever they want? Why is negative light especially being shone on them because they are muslim (and isn't this the opposite of what the OP hypothesises)? Would it have been a different reaction if there was a mixed crowd protesting? How is allowing freedom of expression 'pandering to our enemies way of life'? I thought freedom of expression was the the 'good guys' way of life, not the enemies.

Originally posted by Goathief

No, you fall into the second group for allowing bigotry and hate speech to go unchecked.

The posters I have issues with do not differentiate between your average Muslim and an extremist. What is so hard to understand about that?

Perhaps this is the point that you are missing.

You claim the people are anti Muslim because of a few extremists, I’m anti terrorist full stop as are most people!

What bothers me is that the Muslims in the UK as a whole use the racism card and you’re a BNP member to get its own way.


The UK is a Christian state

Spineless politicians where bullied with the race card to integrate Sharia Law into UK law.

Under Sheria Law Christians are Dhimmi

Dhimmi are second class people, little more than slaves.


Do you not see the bigotry in this; do you not see how some people may take offence?

Are you claiming that that this so called 'moderate Muslim' where against this and it was a hand full of extremist Muslims that had it introduce? If so why did the 'moderate Muslims' not stand up and say no?

Can you not see the issue’ that I don’t not want to become a second class under UK law’?

This so called 'moderate Muslims' allowed preachers of hate to speak in mosques in the UK and when channel 4 ( UK TV station) exposed this they were hit from all Muslim sides as being ‘racist’

Originally posted by Goathief
reply to post by northerngate

 

Fail.

Really so why where Jews selected ? first group that popped into your head or because they are Dhimmi?




[edit on 13/3/2009 by northerngate]

reply to post by northerngate

Which race card were these spineless politicians bullied with to integrate Shariah law?

Currently, because of certain shariah courts in the UK, muslims are able to marry according to Islamic rulings, divorce according to islamic rulings, bequeath their property, etc. That is, matters of civil law, where all parties agree to Shariah. What is wrong with this? And where did 'dhimmi' come into it?

Seeing as you too are so obsessed with the UK being a Christian nation, why are you not protesting against the jewish people who have these same rights (they have specialised courts where they can deal with civil matters in a manner in keeping with their religion)?

[edit on 13-3-2009 by babloyi]

reply to post by babloyi


The section of the article I was referring to was that in which it gives an idea of what is the in the report posted. I agree that the bit about the hijabs was a bit odd, probably just the journalist attempting to be clever.

I also agree that the demonstration should not be stopped, as indeed it wasn’t. But I don’t think the article was saying that allowing these sorts of demonstrations equates to pandering.

The government’s response to Islamic extremism has been to engage with certain people and groups that do not support terrorism. However these people and groups still espouse abhorrent views that would otherwise be deemed illegal. At worse public money has been channelled through to banned groups including terroists. This is what is being referred as pandering.





reply to post by northerngate


The government wasn’t bullied into Sharia, it was just the logical thing to do. We’ve had Jewish courts for hundreds of years; to block similar Muslim courts would be hypocritical and play right into the hands of the extremist recruiters that claim Britain is anti-Islam.

As has been pointed out Sharia courts are arbitration courts that have jurisdiction only as far as the willing participants and existing British law allow. Whether or not it sees anyone as a second class citizen is irrelevant because it can’t do anything that contravenes UK law and that each individual does not agree to.

Moderate Muslims who don’t want to live under Sharia law probably didn’t stand up against the recent legislation for the same reason I didn’t; because it will have absolutely no effect on me or anyone else unless they want it to. There is no significant reason to be against it.

As I’ve made clear I think there are some major problems within the Muslim population but they’re not universal.

Believe it or not the Jewish communities haven't tried to blow us all up!

Extremism is on the rise do not deny this!

Back in the 80's and 90's how many women wore burkhas

(also known as peek a boo dresses for the neanderful)

I have read the qu'ran it is flawed just as is the bible.... Why i hear you ask

Most of it is edited! to suit!

Im not going to discredit any so called prophets or anyones religion! but for goodness sake if we are all getting it so so wrong don't you think (try it isn't hard) that after all this time God (allah) would have sent a message to clarify things!

If somebody say's he has given enough messages im going to rip you to peices. The Bible as we know it the qu'ran as we know it are NOT factual!

They are missing scriptures and OPINIONS.

Many people take a religion because it is there parents beliefs or part of their culture. I stated earlier They are not your beliefs....they are bestowed upon you by parents and others.

Just a thought for people Mohammed came after Isa (jesus)

to a minority "lived what we might say a little bit of a sheltered life" if he was a true messenger of god surely more people would have heard the word of Mohammed...... the level's Islam are hitting now took Christianity far far less time to achieve.....

If Muslims or any other religion want to live in the UK you live by our rules...

Like we do if we move to an islamic country.

Eventually the British Public will retaliate

Oldham....Burnley.....

The British People will only tolerate so much.

I am all for living in peace but peace is a two way street......

we do not say you cannot be muslim jewish sikh or hindu.... how dare you reside in the UK and tell the Majority they cannot be christian and that we are second class and our women are whores and sluts....

this thread in my opinion will need locking very very soon......
This thread is going to incite and wind up True british people.

Just for giggles though How pathetic and stupid did the protesting Muslims look! they were using a system to protest that democracy allows!

Look what happened in Iraq and Afghanistan and other members of the wonderful islamic world when people protest......

Isn't the saying

"off with his head?"

Tick Tock......

believe me when i say a fuse has been lit...

OK I want to chime in here with something I have been experiencing here in my home town and it speaks volumes.

The last 3 - 5 years has been a boom here in West Oz and the influx of Foreign Nationals has been staggering to say the least. To the point...the main group that have relocated here are Britons and in large numbers, now I have managed to get to know quite a few couples with their families and eventually the truth will come out.

The truth is they left Britian because it has been largely invaded by dark skinned people and the crime rate and their relative poverty they brought has turned their homeland into something they no longer want to be a part of...so they immigrated to here and have never looked back.

Me saying true british people means all races and religions are welcome

extremism isn't

don't like our way of life

The government in the uk gives out that much Im sure they will pay for a one way ticket to any islamic country you want..

Please everyone be aware of exactly what has happened in the past.....

If your not a muslim you are an enermy....

ask the thousands of indians who have seen family murdered and slaughtered by pakistan!

Look at the state Afghanistan got into under islamic (all be it extreme islamic) rule....

Women in UK fought for there rights and won.

Islam will NEVER NEVER be allowed to take those rights away.

The race card is wearing thin.... tolerence levels are dropping.....

TICK TOCK

Originally posted by mazzroth
The truth is they left Britian because it has been largely invaded by dark skinned people and the crime rate and their relative poverty they brought has turned their homeland into something they no longer want to be a part of...so they immigrated to here and have never looked back.

Originally posted by ian990003100
The race card is wearing thin.... tolerence levels are dropping.....

TICK TOCK

Yeah, I can see that the race card is wearing thin....
All races and religions welcome, ey? Except muslim, it seems (from your post).

Interesting what this thread has degenerated to. Not that it had any other direction to go....