Sales of “Atlas Shrugged” (by Ayn Rand) Soar in the Face of Economic Crisis (interviews as well/

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
How about taxing the wealthy fairly?

The only fair tax is a flat tax. Everyone pays the same percentage. No matter if you make $20,000 or $200,000. Otherwise you just punish the productive and reward the unproductive.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Her disaster novel about America is coming true, we can probably agree about that fact and build from there.

I fully agree.

I know you are a fan of charity, aren't you?

Absolutely. FREELY GIVEN charity. Not forced. Over taxing someone just to spend it on garbage (like the recent $50 million given to Nancy Pelosi's mice in California) is theft. It's taking someones money that they worked for, and giving it to someone who didn't work for it.

As Jesus said:

There is also a line in the New Testament that goes - those who don't work, don't eat.

Smallpeeps .. i'm not a Rand-Objectivist. I believe in the metaphysical and she doesn't. I saw some serious issues in her writings come forth in her love of violent sex. (I'd love to see her and Freud locked in a room for a few hours! ) I believe in Karma. Rand would kick my butt if she heard that. We give to the church, Good Will, and a few other charitable groups. We also give through our taxes. I hate the drug companies, not because they are rich, but because they just like the looters in Atlas Shrugged. They are looting from US. They are killing us to make money. (Killing to make money isn't objectivist.)

I'm not a full fledged Rand-Objectivist. HOWEVER .. I do believe 'Atlas Shrugged' made some VERY good points. I also believe it is prophetic.


[edit on 3/4/2009 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by David9176
reply to post by LoneGunMan

 

They did it hand in hand...and now the blood is out for big business. If they are overtaken....that leaves us just one HUGE gigantic government that controls it all.

That seems to be the plan all along...

We will find a way though this I don't know how but we will. Sometimes it has to get so bad that no one takes it anymore. We need to unite the American middle class and not let them divide us anymore.

The time is now to do this.

Try this documentary I have embedded in a thread I made here.

The answer lies somewhere in this documentary.

Originally posted by mental modulator
FF - are you rich??? If not what are you whining on about?

No I'm not rich.

MentalModulator - are you handicapped? If not, then why do you care what happens to the handicapped? Do you have cancer? If not, then why do you care what happens to those with cancer?

Newsflash .... When someone sees injustice they are allowed to speak out about it. Stealing from anyone - rich or poor - is wrong.

And as Atlas Shrugged said - if you push the rich too much ... if you overtax and over loot them .. they'll take their money and leave. Then you'll be in a world of hurt because there won't be anyone left for you to steal from, will there?

Originally posted by mental modulator
WHO gave out the bad loans????

OBAMA forced citibank to give out bad loans. He and other lawyers sued banks and forced them to give out bad loans through intimidation tactics. That's part (not all) of the reason we are in the mess we are in now. Because of people like OBAMA and his buddies at ACORN.

Atlas could also shrug as when "Atlas" is asked why things are so bad and if he's the one who holds the world, why can't he figure out what to do?

WORLD: Hey Atlas, why's the world so jacked up?
ATLAS: [*shrugs*] I dunno. Weird huh?

As mentioned, it is Alan Greenspan who federally presided over the swelling-up of the giant bubble which was built into the housing markets and it is he who now says he is not to blame but there's no way to stop what's coming.

The Maestro indeed. He's not to blame, but he's completely befuddled as to what should be done.

Shrugging, one could say.

reply to post by mental modulator

Originally posted by mental modulator
I can't wait to live in a world where money is the prime consideration

Further more I think real liberty will reign when a few people consolidate the majority
of money and wield power beyond our wildest dreams!

We can ditch the government and outsource all of our jobs to the third world...
then in order for America to compete we can lower wages to that of the third world -

ALL the laws and rule will be made with the consideration of PROFIT which is good for America!

Distilling the LED from vaccines is expensive

What does a little led injected into the blood stream hurt?

IT HURTS PROFITS

I hate driving on my roads for free!

I want to pay tolls

You're missing the point of objectivism if you think it is based upon profit. It is not. The main premise is that man must live by reason above all else.

LeAd in water would not be tolerated in her world. It goes against reason to drink it.

And you are against toll roads? How do you manage to get around the gas taxes you pay?

Originally posted by FlyersFan
... they'll take their money and leave...

Trust me, I know for FACT that is "Plan B" for many people of means.

The ultimate consequence is that the little guy will get squeezed further, because they'll have little means to prevent it.

The math is pretty simple, people.

[edit on 4-3-2009 by loam]

Originally posted by True Tao
Someone please define “dumb” and “smart” in the context your using here

SMART - Work for themselves and not as a slave to the state or to another human. Even if they work at someone else's company they are working for their own benefit. Earn their own keep. Understand the economics that mediocrity hates success and wants to see it destroyed.

DUMB - Looters. Parasites. Moochers. Freeloaders. Mediocrity that hates productivity and success. Lives off others. Feels that if they can't be running things and since they aren't rich then no one deserves to be. Think that rich people owe them simply because the rich have money and they don't.

Check out the movie called "The Passion of Ayn Rand"

Helen Mirren played the part of Ayn (pronounced Ein, as in Einstein) and Eric Stoltz plays her young lover, hence the Passion which she claimed was needed to complete the book Atlas Shrugged.

If the movie was true to life, which I feel it was you will see what a selfish, bitter awful woman she really was!

Not to take away from her brilliance, yet after seeing that movie I have no respect for the woman.

Rand did *not* disdain mediocrity. She understood and gave many examples of simple, honest people with limited abilities. But they were moral in the sense that they did their jobs, though 'menial', to the best of their abilities.

The less wealthy were not a sub-class to Rand. There is some very real misinterpretation of her philosophy, if that is what people think.

Originally posted by jsobecky
reply to post by mental modulator

 

Originally posted by mental modulator
I can't wait to live in a world where money is the prime consideration

Further more I think real liberty will reign when a few people consolidate the majority
of money and wield power beyond our wildest dreams!

We can ditch the government and outsource all of our jobs to the third world...
then in order for America to compete we can lower wages to that of the third world -

ALL the laws and rule will be made with the consideration of PROFIT which is good for America!

Distilling the LED from vaccines is expensive

What does a little led injected into the blood stream hurt?

IT HURTS PROFITS

I hate driving on my roads for free!

I want to pay tolls

You're missing the point of objectivism if you think it is based upon profit. It is not. The main premise is that man must live by reason above all else.

LeAd in water would not be tolerated in her world. It goes against reason to drink it.

And you are against toll roads? How do you manage to get around the gas taxes you pay?

Thats for the lead correction...

But in Ayn's world is based upon her reason, and as far as I can see there are 300,000,000 million reasons which indicates the importance of a democratic REPUBLIC.

There is no monopoly on reason... The whole concept is utopian in its scope.

different in matter - but no different then Robert Owen in that it does not account for
human obstructions.

as far as the toll thing - I do pay tax on the gas - but it is not compounded with a toll or a migraine associated with the traffic waiting to pay that toll.

Isn't a RAND world a bit cold for all of you?

reply to post by David9176


S&F David!

She is one interesting and intelligent woman. Wow she could help solve a lot a problems if people would listen. I'll get back to some of the others featured...

Thanks for the extravaganza.

Originally posted by mental modulator
Isn't a RAND world a bit cold for all of you?

I'm just curious. As opposed to what realistic alternative?

reply to post by David9176

While your waiting for Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead, I would suggest reading Anthem. It is short, it's much lighter than her other work, and is, in my opinion, one of the most damning criticisms of socialism and communism that I have ever read. I wish I could find my copy. There are some excellent quotes that I would love to use sometime.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by mental modulator
FF - are you rich??? If not what are you whining on about?

No I'm not rich.

FLYERS FAN - is handicapped? If not, then why do you care what happens to the handicapped? Do you have cancer? If not, then why do you care what happens to those with cancer?

Newsflash .... When someone sees injustice they are allowed to speak out about it. Stealing from anyone - rich or poor - is wrong.

And as Atlas Shrugged said - if you push the rich too much ... if you overtax and over loot them .. they'll take their money and leave. Then you'll be in a world of hurt because there won't be anyone left for you to steal from, will there?

Originally posted by mental modulator
WHO gave out the bad loans????

OBAMA forced citibank to give out bad loans. He and other lawyers sued banks and forced them to give out bad loans through intimidation tactics. That's part (not all) of the reason we are in the mess we are in now. Because of people like OBAMA and his buddies at ACORN.

I don't steel $#@$ pal, I suffer all on my own... You assume everyone is steeling?
I interact with about 20 people on a regular basis, not one of them is unemployed or looking for a handout.

And second is expecting 200+% back on a loan steeling?

Why?

Because we have a maluable legal system.

Is charging my father $30,000 a month for chemo that he could get for less than $1,000 in mexico steeling?

How is that not steeling...

Yet you seem to oppose single payer health insurance.

OBAMA spent $5 T in eight years - I get it

and

Clinton invaded IRAQ

The fact of the matter is The housing crisis had everything to do with GREED -

At my former mortgage firm they were at +600% sub prime quotas -

The CEO grew that depo because of easy money -

The laws could have worked if someone was enforcing them... AND if GREED
did not drive the entities.

Don't make me dig up youtube BUSH at a FANNIE outing.

THE STEELING was the private sector...

reply to post by mental modulator
When one reads Rand's works, she comes across as being cold and unfeeling, but one can be objective, and still experience all the normal human emotions. But an objectivism point of view would look at these emotions and rationally come to the conclusion of whether acting on the emotion would be to your benefit or not.
If I am cut off in traffic, I might get angry, but is it to my benefit to chase the person who cut me off, pull up next to him and shoot him? I don't think so. It's not about having no emotions, it's about choosing to act or not to act.

Originally posted by loam

Originally posted by mental modulator
Isn't a RAND world a bit cold for all of you?

I'm just curious. As opposed to what realistic alternative?

And letting the MARKETS of the world determine the politics of the world is realistic...


Business in its natural state is to accumulate money and consolodate that money and repeat...

There is only so much money and at some point the people - the majority of people on Earth will be cut off from that finite sum.

If not what would motivate the holders of $$$$$$$ to ensure that people can afford a decent life, what is the incentive to limit the consolidation of $$$$$$ and power???

And at some point are you still free?

Originally posted by kettlebellysmith
reply to post by mental modulator

 

When one reads Rand's works, she comes across as being cold and unfeeling, but one can be objective, and still experience all the normal human emotions. But an objectivism point of view would look at these emotions and rationally come to the conclusion of whether acting on the emotion would be to your benefit or not.
If I am cut off in traffic, I might get angry, but is it to my benefit to chase the person who cut me off, pull up next to him and shoot him? I don't think so. It's not about having no emotions, it's about choosing to act or not to act.

Well per your description thats a given.

How is what you stated any different than what we exercise everyday?

I have yet to shoot anyone,,,
who didn't deserve it.

Not to mention that what is the point of society ( SOC ) or a nation if everyone is thinking like animals ?

To me it goes past logical IMO...

Originally posted by loam

Originally posted by mental modulator
Isn't a RAND world a bit cold for all of you?

I'm just curious. As opposed to what realistic alternative?

Love and Empathy.

Such a simple thing psychopaths totally lack. The super rich are just that; as are dictators. Psychopaths.

reply to post by mental modulator

Originally posted by mental modulator

There is only so much money and at some point the people - the majority of people on Earth will be cut off from that finite sum.

This is incorrect, and is the premise that Obama is using to sell his policies to the masses (I'm not labeling you in any way, just making a statement).

Wealth is is created by man's efforts and abilities. Example: The PC did not exist 30 years ago. Look at the wealth created by Intel and Microsoft, etc.

If not what would motivate the holders of $$$$$$$ to ensure that people can afford a decent life, what is the incentive to limit the consolidation of $$$$$$ and power???

Competition is the incentive and driving force that creates opportunities.

Originally posted by kettlebellysmith
reply to post by mental modulator

 

When one reads Rand's works, she comes across as being cold and unfeeling, but one can be objective, and still experience all the normal human emotions. But an objectivism point of view would look at these emotions and rationally come to the conclusion of whether acting on the emotion would be to your benefit or not.
If I am cut off in traffic, I might get angry, but is it to my benefit to chase the person who cut me off, pull up next to him and shoot him? I don't think so. It's not about having no emotions, it's about choosing to act or not to act.

emotions are tools to express, but the idea is to use the tools not be used by them......


A little off topic but in your Sig. it says "moderation is for monks" which I assume your referring to the saying “all things in moderation” which is a bit misleading because it is believed that what Buddha was getting at is that all things should be in moderation INCLUDING moderation……..
Just a thought….


[edit on 4-3-2009 by True Tao]