When does a group belief become a cult and why?

Originally posted by NuclearPaul
It becomes a cult once it reaches the stage where you have to think a certain way to belong. I have many friends who I discuss conspiracies and ETs etc with, but although we share many beliefs, there are always parts we disagree on, but we still respect and listen to each other's opinions.

Quite right Nuclear Paul, well said. No one is forcing me to live in my now, no one is saying I have to do this to belong Im doing it for myself so to me this is not a cult.
Everyone in this thread disagrees on something which is good because that means we all feel like we can voice our opinions without being told we must only think a certain way. I therefor conclude there are no cult leaders on this thread. Well there better not be !! If there is one he/she isnt a very good one.

reply to post by IamNow

Originally posted by IamNow
reply to post by headlightone

 

I think you hit the nail on the head with this one.

YouTube

Hi hey thanks for that link .
Now heres one for you, its a definate warning to not allow others to control our chakras.

www.youtube.com...

That could have happened to us.


[edit on 12-3-2009 by Mr Green]

reply to post by Mr Green


We certainly do all have our own beliefs.

Am I the only one on here who doesn't meditate? Maybe I do meditate in my own way. I daydream and fantasize alot, does that count? But never sat in a pose like in PR's avatar to do it. I don't fully understand the purpose of meditation, it seems to take too long, and I suffer from impatience and the inability to clear my mind. I'm not knocking it. I just don't think it works for me personally. I've always felt more energised and at peace (if it's possible to combine the two at the same time) if I'm outdoors in natural sunshine. Maybe I'm a solist and I don't even know it

[edit on 12-3-2009 by violet]

reply to post by violet


It does count. I do it all the time.

The purpose of meditation is to shut down "internal dialog", that is: perception and reflection.
There are two basic methods, or approaches to meditation: Concentration on one point, and over flooding (which turns off your processing ability because of enormous quantity of information).

When imagining things, or situations, it suddenly stops when you realize something. This "realization" is proper result of meditation (satori).

When I was in Buddhist monastery, I tried various techniques, and finally I realized that my meditation is poetry. The method used in poetry to discern (analyze) is a meditation technique like any other.

The only thing that really matters is mindfulness. If you are mindful, critically observing whatever you do, that is meditation.

Quite an outstanding video.

www.youtube.com...

Voice off: the Philip K. Dick avatar

All cults will be consumed by EXPERIENCE!

Originally posted by Mr Green

To the one that said beware E Tolles teachings have a leaky roof. Well Im not sure what you mean, but for me a leaky roof is far better than no roof at all.

2-3-2009 by Mr Green]

Mr Green,

I stand corrected re E.T. teachings

By "leaky roof" I meant that he doesn't give you all the necessary tools, which are available in Buddhism, to get to the here & now. But who am I to judge if you need those tools. I was wrong about that.

reply to post by DangerDeath

You mean, your philosophical perception is now functioning as a misnomer?

You are confused, perceiving to shut off mind, then to become mind, all in one paragraph.

Or about the nature of mind, as I described in the 'enligtenment' thread (elsewhere). This, too, was unpopular; a good point of attack. But 'philosophical al' walks the path, stumbles and falls, gets up, and it's okay, because he's 'common' as far as normal and acceptability runs.

I think your attempt to educated the ignorant, including yourself, has been a life's disaster. It works great in church and social gatherings, as you trade philosophy versions and canned-awareness insights. You might or might not be aware while you attempt to pickle another, that don Juan also stated, "when two sorcerers enter a house, only one comes out." Given in context to an aggressive stance (old seers), not the blending of perceptions.

There is a difference bewteen beings both passive/aggressive, and being the meaningless fool, who takes no stance but to stab and run amidst the bravery of others.

You profess to walk the path (stumble, perhaps). I Am the Path.

As your staid and unclever double-positional viewpoints (see your quotes) unfold, as 'philosophical insights' (copied, because you are not what you speak of), anyone can easily peruse my many posts and see that I inherently describe what I say as both duality and triality. Something you perhaps would call reflecting metaphors, for as pilosopher, you are more ego than understanding.

If you think I will pull out philosophy books to charge horns, or duel with a frozen viewpoint, it would be like purposeless tail chasing. You are welcome an opinion, it doesn't make you right. You profess and offer instances of your philosophical knowledge, but wouldn't know a condition if it hit you. As you travel the cosmos back and forth (your words), you might stop to perceive more the nature of balance, rather than fighting your self-denial.

I haven't travelled it, It's just there.

And you also speak in your riddles of furthered confusion, yet practice not these knowledges. Like another here on ats, who spoke of his knowledge being 1000 of yrs. in the future for mankind, yet when questioned by me, freely admitted he had all that knowledge (himself), right now. The rest of us (all humanity) would have to wait 1000 years to be so wise.

You might also look into this mirror, for your ego is showing. It's a bit twisted by your philosophical misapprehnsions, which are profound.

And I suggest you move the boxes packed with the treasures of your learning, back away from your coffer which you found 'empty,' and look again (see earlier post where 'such' erudition was given). That which you could not see in your coffer is the same that mankind has not recognized in their own: It is called the 'Invisible,' the 'Immaterial,' the 'Ether,' the 'Brilliance,' the 'Alpha & Omega,' etc., etc. Of course you wouldn't recognize the principle of your perception: you are the intelligent observer, stuck in a box of soggy cardboard, thinking you are trapped within and frantically philosophizing your way out, out of the shell of enclosure, a barrier I perceived surrounding you, from your first post. That which you could not find is philosophically known as 'So Above, So Below; As Within, So Without.' Actually, it is no philosophy, it is expression of the Real as opposed to the Unreal.

Perhaps that will broaden your philosophical tools of insight, next time you take a journey of understanding. Oh, I forgot, perhaps you're a 1000 yrs. ahead of the rest of mankind's philosophical insight, right? So it seems to me.

Check your ego at the door before proffering such 'wisdoms': most can't see it; I can. ROFL.

PSS - To all: I have in an earlier post given my statements about the entire universe being a cult, and that the cult of S/He was the biggest of them all. That is the same cult most are calling 'Now' on ats. Nothing wrong with it, do as you choose. It is not insult or slander to state a belief, long as it's not shoved at another. Enjoy the now, I could care less.

A better method would be to perhaps empty your cup daily; but then people like dd woudl never empty his cup, for it would mean losing all the wonderful gems of philosophy. Oh my! Not my gem! They're mine.

Possession and ego: check 'em.

[edit on 12-3-2009 by SS,Naga]

reply to post by SS,Naga


Wow, just WOW

I got dizzy reading ....

reply to post by SS,Naga


I went back 100.000 years and met a Neanderthal man. He said:

- Entangled!

reply to post by headlightone


OP,

do you want to stay focused on your original question, or is it ok to digress a bit?

Originally posted by NuclearPaul
It becomes a cult once it reaches the stage where you have to think a certain way to belong.

Your definition would fit any political party ...

All the best.

You know I thought I heard it all on ATS I really did, now it’s come to this “Living in the Now is a Cult” I suppose here I could rant on and on about my beliefs about the “Now” I could post quote by quote from authors like Eckhart Tolle and Anthony De Mello but I am not going to surrender to Ego that easy. If you think living in the “Now” is a cult, brilliant you think that, you have free will to believe anything you wish and I for one am not even going to attempt to change your mind. So you carry on living in the past or future, although impossible you go right ahead otherwise “Others” may suggest you are a Cult member.

That’s right “Others” because that’s what humanity has come to, we are no longer one no more, and it’s either them or the others. Separation at its best, an history full of Greed, Power, War, Manipulation, Slavery, Racism… all thanks to separation and the list goes on, still we have not learned we are now in the 21st century and we still think separation is the way.

For the cultists of the Now:

interglacial.com...

This is a story "Tlon" by J. L. Borges, and it is very much on the target.

A very inspiring insight.

Originally posted by DangerDeath
Quite an outstanding video.

www.youtube.com...

Voice off: the Philip K. Dick avatar

All cults will be consumed by EXPERIENCE!

Very interesting video. Sort of like a wake up call to how we could/possibly are becoming. Its like we are heading into a world where no one actually goes out anymore and experiences things for themselves, they prefer to" recieve " and "experience" via technology and digital signals.

I know of people who conduct their whole life via social network sites, even though they live in the same town whats that all about? They send each other pizzas and wine virtually, well why not actually go round to that friend with some real wine?? A friend told me once her sister and her sisters boyfriend speak to each other via MSN/WLM in the same house via computers Thats just mad.

Are these new social behaviours just media programming or are they infact the cult of all cults, that one day we will all belong to?

You just gave me a thought -- (I know, miracles happen). Am I now a part of a sub-cult at ATS? Never thought about that but under the given description I guess it would fit.

Am I a cult member?

reply to post by Mr Green


Ahahaha

The thing is, our "insides" turn out as our "virtual outsides".
Nothing new under the Sun, just another "new media" dominance, for a while.

I wonder, this electronic era is at its peak, now we should look for some "newer" media to consume us all. Like: chemical machines, genetics, nanitoid technology. We have no idea whats brewing in the dark...

We can try to anticipate...

Dark matter and Dark energy rivers closing up on us...

Originally posted by IamNow
You know I thought I heard it all on ATS I really did, now it’s come to this “Living in the Now is a Cult” I suppose here I could rant on and on about my beliefs about the “Now” I could post quote by quote from authors like Eckhart Tolle and Anthony De Mello but I am not going to surrender to Ego that easy. If you think living in the “Now” is a cult, brilliant you think that, you have free will to believe anything you wish and I for one am not even going to attempt to change your mind. So you carry on living in the past or future, although impossible you go right ahead otherwise “Others” may suggest you are a Cult member.

Hey yes thats all true, but what did you think of Derek Acorah getting possessed? I posted it to you a few pages back for you. Looks really nasty, terrible infact, he says they took his arm

Living in the now is your reality, it is where you feel your truth, just accept this is your path but maybe not anothers. It is not for us to change anothers truth, we can all say in what technique/belief WE have found an awarness from and hope this may help others find theirs.

I like you have found much truth in E Tolles teachings but I am very aware it is not for everyone.

I do hope Naga does not leave the thread but if he decides to then that is his choice. I remember when he left the enlightenment thread, he was missed. His discussion on the now being a cult, if done correctly can bring depth to this thread. Its like any point of view if everyone respects everyone else you find you can have a very good discussion.

So what you think? Was Derek really possessed? Once on that show he was possessed by a dead alien. Id love to find that clip, seems channelling people had become boring for him. Actually shortly after the channeling alien thing he left the show..I wonder why

Originally posted by SS,Naga
PSS - To all: I have in an earlier post given my statements about the entire universe being a cult, and that the cult of S/He was the biggest of them all. That is the same cult most are calling 'Now' on ats. Nothing wrong with it, do as you choose. It is not insult or slander to state a belief, long as it's not shoved at another. Enjoy the now, I could care less.

A better method would be to perhaps empty your cup daily; but then people like dd woudl never empty his cup, for it would mean losing all the wonderful gems of philosophy. Oh my! Not my gem! They're mine.

Possession and ego: check 'em.

[edit on 12-3-2009 by SS,Naga]

Well maybe the whole Universe is a cult, who really knows. I guess that could be the ultimate cult. If it were its kind of impossible not to be a member, how does one not be a member of the Universe in some form or another???

I still cant agree with you on the now being a cult but its Ok its what you think and your perfectly free to put this down in print. I would ask you that if you feel you dont live in your now, where do you live? Maybe your past, present and future all in one, but maybe Id better not.

Empty your cup daily. Interesting, you see this to me is kind of living in the now, except if we actually lived 100% in our now we'd empty our cup every second. Wed leave behind all the "thoughts and mind patterns" we'd build up that day and just discard them. they are not us, we dont need them, so why hold onto them? No point at all. Im not talking about life information we learn each day like, bus times, meeting times, childrens school dates, no Im talking about information that if with held leads to a false self, it leads to the generation of ego and ultimatly to becoming unconscious.




[edit on 12-3-2009 by Mr Green]

Oh, spare me, first you need to be able to think, if you cannot perceive clearly.

Now,

I gave my opinion of Now which agrees with the quote I posted: You cannot live all yourself in the 'Now."

You negate that which you do not or cannot understand, therefore relate to, as is the way in the history of humanity. That includes you, dangerdeath, with your hilarious lowlife insults: 100,000 yrs.. I give the same back to you, from a higher positon (frequency of oscillation).

Let's think (except perhaps you dd, you are frozen into your philosophical box of self-knowledge, sure, smug, smitten-by-self, imo):

Unconscious - Conscious - Supraconscious.

Three aspects of mankinds awareness (or consciousness). Denied by all here? Good, you cannot play this game. First, you must recognize the rules the game is played by:

Unconscious: states of non-awareness: therefore, unknown, which is aspected as both Unconscious and Subconscious, two different levels in the stream of the unknown. Sleep...ring any bells for anyone?

Conscious: aware of the moment surrounding the self: Self-Aware, also within two levels of flow, or stream of awareness (consult: Walter Russell, "Secret of Light," free on line book: ask for link). Awake...ring any bells for anyone?

Supraconscious: awareness rising beyond states of current acceptable 'norms' as ascribed by society: what is, what can be, what may be. Also referrential to cosmic consciousness or samadhi, or whatever name one uses. This exists, though not for philosophers included in the agrument (non). Consciousness of All Three States of awareness...of course, no bells being rung here.

This supraconsciusness is hypothetical to most on this thread, if not all, (especially the philosopher leaders, so self aware, or so they pretend with 'quotes' and witticisms...isms). There are those on ats who have experienced what I have just alluded to: supraconscious states of cc, etc.

This is Real, not absolutism: it is experiential. I could write droves of info culled from books and the internet on the topic, but it is all subjective speculation unless others have encountered same experience, and resonate the Reality. Obviously, our eminent philosophers think their mind perceptions, the 'grasping' of erudite and abstract ideation, is of such fabric. It is not.

Direct experience of cc is omniscience, nothing less: you don't 'go' to the ends of the cosmos and back: you become One with it. You may later philosophize this, but it is futile to put into worded description, even with buddhist 'tricks' of wording, as given in a quote by dd.

So, those of you who deny (ignorance) having three states of consciousness, or access to these three states as human expressions, are certainly fools. You cannot live in the Now except as you experience it from the state of AllNow, or Cosmic Consciousness, which untangles all the tangles, and is inclusive of all three states of consciousness.

To deny this, is fine. It is not true Wisdom, but is all one can expect of those making the pilgrims journey, the level of progress (or non) they have made, and those realities validated through some inner means.

I have received these states spontaneously, with no such seeking or any cheat methods, nor even meditation. This is part of what set me upon the Capstone Path (straight and narrow).

And dangerdeath, each time you isullt me for my viewpoints, you kick yourself down another peg: perhaps you cannot see this forest for the trees/leaves. You attack with belittlement, I attack with enlightenment.

We cannot stand outside this mirroring process and examine it, though, for we ARE the process, to an unknowable extent. Any technique we might use to 'look objectively' at our reality becomes a part of the event in question. We are an indeterminately large part of the function that shapes the reality from which we do our looking. Our looking enters as one of the determinants in the reality event that we see. ("Crack In The Cosmic Egg" by Joseph Pearce & Thom Hartmann)

Now, and the unifying states of consciousness:

Even now on your planet you have allowed yourselves to believe that your day-to-day reality is the only true reality and the other states of consciousness are subrealities. As you have learned from your metaphysical studies, this is not so. Actually, the day-to-day reality is more the dream than any other. Permission is given on the reality in which you exist all the time, not the dream reality you find yourselves in when you are 'awake' during your daytime."

"So our identities in our waking state are fragmented. Are they fragmented on our other levels of consciousness?"

"Your other levels of consciousness are more integrated. You are in the process now of integrating those other states (such as the subconscious, superconscious) into the conscious so that you will become more integrated beings. Therefore you will know more of what is occurring on other levels of reality rather than just this subreality."
("Visitors From Within" by Lyssa Royal and Keith Priest)

Any thinkers out there (not philosophers, who ignore what they do not understand)?

Note the last paragraph in the quote: mention of the subconscious and the superconscious (what I call 'supraconsciousness;' just a difference in verbiage) being Integrated into the conscious (awake?) state of perception (of humanity).

I went hunting for something that could concur with my point of expression, since the intellect must come to grips with something unaccepted.

This is Not philosophy: this is something Beyond philosophy: expression of what no one on this thread seems to be familiar with, but everybody is attempting to engage: the Energetic Structure of Consciousness. It is not mere 'symbolic myth,' but an actuality. I'm the fool for conveying this?

And dangerdeath, you might rise above the ad hominem attacks:

"Ad Hominem is a fallicy of logic often used in attacks on the poster rather than the topic of discussion. Its often used when one is no longer able to defend your position or thesis."

Your ad hominem response:
"I went back 100.000 years and met a Neanderthal man. He said: - Entangled!"

I know, what 'ad hominem' means is hard to understand, so you use it, because you think others on this thread are stupid and cannot recognize your use of it.

You want to argue the points, do it like an adult, a man, not a wuss. You bring us all down to your level with your baseless innuendos towards me.

(Innuendo: "An indirect or subtle, usually derogatory implication in expression; an insinuation.") Ad Hominem attack.

C'mon philosopher, man-up. Get adult and stop the character derisions*:
is that all you have, insults and belittlements, because you have no grasp of the issues, and fall back on insults, like the other philosopher? Quit dragging it into the gutter, and discuss like a civil person. Throw mud, it gets thrown back at you: law of the universe (in case anyone noticed).

(*derision: "Contemptuous or jeering laughter; ridicule.")

Don't make me say 'pathetic.' Someone with some smarts might come on the thread and catch you at your game, other than myself.

[edit on 12-3-2009 by SS,Naga]

Originally posted by SS,Naga

Unconscious - Conscious - Supraconscious.

Three aspects of mankinds awareness (or consciousness). Denied by all here? Good, you cannot play this game. First, you must recognize the rules the game is played by.

Unconscious: states of non-awareness: therefore, unknown, which is aspected as both Uncosncious and Subconscious, two differetn levels int he stream of the unknown. Sleep...ring any bells for anyone?

Conscious: aware of the moment surrounding the self: Self-Aware, also within two levels of flow, or stream of awareness (consult: Walter Russell, "Secret of Light."). Awake...ring any bells for anyone?

Supraconscious: awareness rising beyond states of current acceptable 'norms' as proscribed by society: what is, what can be, what may be. Also referrential to cosmic consciousness or samadhi, by whatever other name one uses. This exists, though not for philosophers included in the agrument (non). Consciousness of All Three States of awareness...of course, no bells being rung here.

Thats more like it. Now I see, why didnt you just say before.

However I still struggle as to how we are to reach this SC state. Im only just coming to terms with becoming conscious so supra is a little off limits for me it seems. I know if we say we whont achieve it we whont but until Im 100% conscious which Im not, I can not look towards reaching SC can i.

I see how the SC is, how it can be and why it has to be but I can not see how to achieve it while incarnated. The SC is the cosmic consciousness, how is this even realized when we are manipulated on all fronts while incarnated?

EDIT I also think though that for myself and a lot of other people, living in the now is the best thing we can do to achieve consciousness, maybe its a stepping stone to supraconsciousness who knows, but one things for sure, until we are conscious we can not become supraconscious, and living in the now brings awarness and with that brings consciousness.

[edit on 12-3-2009 by Mr Green]