Victorian bushfires: a conspiracy or not?

So we wait until the government/media tells us who started the bushfires? They are already implying it was arsonists. Just like they falsely implied that martin bryant was responsible for those 20 head shots in port arthur. Absolute rubbish. Even if the fire was just caused by natural happenings, the government should have allowed people to use hazard reduction burning and clearing. No of course we shouldn't burn down the entire bush. Just clearing around properties is enough. Point scoring for what? I don't think we should stop looking into the matter at all. Sweeping it under the mat until all emotions have disappeared will only help the government coverup. And please oh please tell me how I am being disprespectful? The last guy couldn't so please can you 'Ozweatherman'?

reply to post by andrew123


Its disrespectful because you havent even waited til the last embers of the bushfires have been extinguished. People dont give a damn about how or why it was started at the moment....all people are concentrating on is remembering their friends and family that perished in this tragedy.

All you give a crap about is trying to blame the government with no proof whatsovere, and comparing a natural disaster to the rampage of a mad man with a gun. Do you think the victims of Martin Bryant care wether he was under mind control or whatever other BS motives you are concoting out of pure speculation?

They dont...ok

Beside that, this thread is terribly written, lacking punctuation, sources, references and even plausibility.

If you cant understand how hot dry weather, and gale force winds over a large vegetation filled region, can fuel a bushfire to spiral out of control, then you got some serious rationality issues

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
reply to post by andrew123

 

Its disrespectful because you havent even waited til the last embers of the bushfires have been extinguished. People dont give a damn about how or why it was started at the moment....all people are concentrating on is remembering their friends and family that perished in this tragedy.

If you cant understand how hot dry weather, and gale force winds over a large vegetation filled region, can fuel a bushfire to spiral out of control, then you got some serious rationality issues

Well said Oz Weatherman!
Couldn't agree more. Andrew should be ashamed of himself for this thread. How about we bury the dead and mourn them before we go pointing fingers? This thread should be removed from the site.

This thread is ridiculous.

In no way is it a conspiracy.

Government and council stupidity, conspiracy no.

I know you may be trying to stir the pot and get some people talking about it, but there is no basis for your thread. And as someone else has already mentioned, quite upsetting and insensitive.

i live in melbourne around 90km from the bush fires.

this is how i see it. It may not be a consipracy as such but why doesnt local goverment allow residents to back burn or clear bush scrub and close trees to there propertys?

one person did it and paid up to $100,000 in fines but his house survived.

if there is a conspiracy to throw anywhere maybe the fires were lit by the fedral goverment so alot of houses could burn down there for creating alot of jobs for builders and helping the economy get back on track with many jobs being created.

Originally posted by Dragon33

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
reply to post by andrew123

 

Its disrespectful because you havent even waited til the last embers of the bushfires have been extinguished. People dont give a damn about how or why it was started at the moment....all people are concentrating on is remembering their friends and family that perished in this tragedy.

If you cant understand how hot dry weather, and gale force winds over a large vegetation filled region, can fuel a bushfire to spiral out of control, then you got some serious rationality issues

Well said Oz Weatherman!
Couldn't agree more. Andrew should be ashamed of himself for this thread. How about we bury the dead and mourn them before we go pointing fingers? This thread should be removed from the site.

i disagree some people do care why it was started like my self. i was fortunate that i had no one lost in the fires so for me im not greeving anything but i sure as hell want to find out why they were lit and if some little prick has done them he should live i a straight jacket locked up in a dark room for the rest of his life

I think it is important to know why the enviromentalists in council and goverment will not allow people to back burn or clear a bush fire buffer zone.

I believe that there are those with all the best intentions under the sun with out a clue on the enviroment itself who make policy to win votes with out knowing what damage it may cause.

The green lobby group have got a bit to big for their boots and do not want a single tree touched even if that means that it puts poples lives at risk.

Now I am not in favour of clear felling or slash and burn policy, but it used to be common practice to create a buffer around your home in a bush enviroment, If I was to leave oil drums and oily rags in my front yard I would be charged with carelesness of having a fire hazard to close to a residence, yet council do not allow clearing of properties in case they stand on a native Orchid.

Again I do not see this as a conspiracy, but it will give goverment more power to control peoples lives in where and how they must live.

and as for disrespecting the dead, I would be asking why the law put peoples lives at risk by not making them create a buffer around their properties.

even if the gov didn't do it on purpose people should be asking for them to hand in their resignations for their blatant incompetency.

A potential motif may have been to re-instate the death penalty. Whilst this has not happened, i thought at the time it may have been conceivable.

There was/is alot of talk of the fires being started by arsonists, and with all the media stirred emotion, i'm sure their was only one punishment on alot of peoples minds. Rudd could have even been present when they where apprehended.

Back to reality

Did any other victorians receive their caution text message this evening? Very considerate of the police if you ask me.

very good point thinking.. very good point indeed!

reply to post by ThinkingNotLiving


I got the text message, and was fairly surprised to see it.

Although I agree with emergency warning messages, I was informed in an ABC radio interview that they could not get approval to do such a things, becasue of privacy and spam laws.

But I am glad they had the rocks to do it.

Tim

Originally posted by tim.vic.au
reply to post by ThinkingNotLiving

 

I got the text message, and was fairly surprised to see it.

Although I agree with emergency warning messages, I was informed in an ABC radio interview that they could not get approval to do such a things, becasue of privacy and spam laws.

But I am glad they had the rocks to do it.

Tim

Maby that's its.. something to do with those laws.. a mobile phone is almost like a tracker.. your position can be found using current technology. Maby they used it to pass through legislation that they can get peoples mobile details and hence track them.

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
This thread is a disrespect to all those that fought, survived and died through the Victorian bushfires

The fires were caused by a combination of hot, dry conditions, high winds and possible arson. Fact is, bushfires are common in Australia in summer time, regardless of wether burning off occurs or not.

What are we supposed to do, burn off the entire bushland and scrub in Australias rural areas?

This just sounds like a pathetic attempt at point scoring, and what makes it worse, is you didnt even wait until the source of the fires has been discovered, or until rebuilding of the victims towns has began....or even until the threat of more bushfires has gone

Shame on you OP

[edit on 1/3/2009 by OzWeatherman]

I concur entirely.

It appears to me Andrew that you live in a fantasy word.

Perhaps you should take some time away from ATS and get a grip.

Or maybe a trip to the affected areas and speak to those on the ground.

Four fires are still burning, though thankfully cooler conditions are helping the firefighters.

In closing, This thread is a joke, albeit a very poor one.



Mungo

No what is a joke is people not wanting to talk about it.

ATTENTION

We understand that for some members this is a very sad and emotional topic, because many lives were destroyed by the fire.

However, such as with many previous disasters (Katrina, 9/11, etc.) ATSers need to talk about the events, and the possibility of a conspiracy.

We discuss the possibility by putting facts on the table - not wild assumptions - and we do so with respect towards our fellow members and even more so the victims of the fires.

If you feel too emotional about the events, perhaps you should avoid the thread for the time being.

The most interesting part of this thread so far :

Originally posted by BalderAsir
The biggest problem is that there are 3 different fire authorities working to control blazes. the DSE and CFA do not work well together. We sat on the ground watching the Boolarra fire start, but due to political bs we were to told to wait on the ground while a ground crew checked it out. IF we had been allowed to do our job these fires would have never gotten out of control.

What else can you tell us Balder???

CT

keep it coming people... my mate donated $200 to bushfire appeal.. what a lost ****.

ok, this may lose some people.

basically there are 3 different organiations that are put to work when a bush fire starts. You have the CFA, DSE and the State Aircraft Unit. I'm part of the latter. Now, if a fire starts on private property, the DSE and SAU are not allowed to get involved until the CFA have checked the fire and decided if they require our help. This decision is not made by the crews on the ground, or even their station commander but by a big wig in the Disaster Coordination Centre located in melbourne. By this stage, as was seen with the Boolara fire, the blaze has either been put out by the CFA, or is now alot bigger they are able to control.

The DSE cover public lands and they follow basically the same procedure as the CFA. all decisions need to be made by a person in the DCC who cannot see the fire, has no idea of the conditions on the ground and has probably not been outside all day.

This situation only gets worse when we are on the job, both the guys on the ground and us in the air over the fire. I can't speak for the guys on the ground, but those of us flying have worked with each other for years, we have fought fires with each other for years and have alot of experience with how a fire is going to move based on the current weather and the terrain its in, we know what needs to be done to hold back a fire front. Now, the Helitak guys (the guys who coordinate the aircraft over the fire) are normally very experienced. They have a much larger view of the fire and direct us to best contain the fire. The problem is, in recent years it has been SAU/DSE policy to rotate the Helitak observers around to the DCC. this leaves us with inexperienced observers who we have never worked with, who do not know how to utilised the aircraft to their best and above all, do not trust or rely on our years of experience and will not listen or take advice from us. Near on everyday after operations where over there was more than 1 pilot who felt like beating certian "experts". We had the fire under control in Boolara and were making headway in putting it out when coordinating with the ground crews, but then the decision was made by the bosses in Melb to pull the aircrews off the blaze and you guessed it, the fire was out of control again come morning.

The other issue is that aerial operations don't begin until 11am. Why, because the "experts" attend morning breifing at 9am to 10am, then they brief the air crews until 11am by which time the fire is back in full swing. They won't listen to us when we say brief at 5am and be on the fire at 6am when it is at its most sedate. we would have alot more effect that way.


At the end of the day it comes down to 3 seperate departments trying to justify their existance. none of them are willing to work effectively with another department because they fear it'll men that they get combined into 1 unified dept, which would be the best god damn thing that would happen. Give us out experienced guys back and remove all the beuracratic bull that happens and we would be a better fire fighting tool than we are currently.

"Bushfire bunkers may be death traps"
www.abc.net.au...

Yet 2 firemen can survive by hunkering down in their truck
Any protection is better than NO protection.

yet a month before they are saying "bushfire bunkers could save lives"
www.abc.net.au...



"Accused bushfire arsonist to face court"
www.abc.net.au...
"The man was moved to an undisclosed location"
"Mr Sokaluk was in the building during today's hearing but did not appear in court. "
He has still not appeared in any court hearing.

I cant find the Myspace screenshot, but I found it highly convenient for someone to take it as soon as it got shutdown, I guess this "undisclosed location" gave him internet access for him to check his myspace


Channel 7 news mentioned how the water supply was CUT to Marysville. Then there's the lack of communication in evacuating residents and being unable to access bushfire areas. Despite calling on the military to set up their measly tents, they couldn't use their logistics to coordinate any rescue efforts?

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
This thread is a disrespect to all those that fought, survived and died through the Victorian bushfires

Actually, it's got nothing to do with them whatsoever. You are letting your emotions control you.

Given who is in control of this planet, and how they operate, I think it's worth considering they may have been behind it. If anything, we owe it to the dead to find out the truth about how these fires started, rather than blindly trust the media.

I haven't a clue how they started, but I won't automatically rule anything out simply because the idea is too emotional.