Victorian bushfires: a conspiracy or not?

What are your thoughts on this? I think the government is definitely to blame as they didn't allow people to backburn around their properties. Also surely they would have known that not maintaining a buffer zone around towns etc would lead to a crisis like this eventually. The government were in on the port arthur massacre why wouldn't they be behind something like this?
The question is what do they get out of it? With the port arthur massacre it was people giving up their rights to bear arms and hence leading to a defenseless population. What will they get out of the bushfires?

[edit on 28-2-2009 by andrew123]

Conspiracy? Are you completely mad? This thread does a disservice to - and shows complete disrespect to the dead. The government didn't allow anything to happen. If you mentioned this as a conspiracy to the average Victorian (such as me) in the street they would shoot you down in flames. You know it, and I know it!

This thread is ridiculous!

IRM

reply to post by InfaRedMan


Conspiracy no, but I think it is an excellent example of a blunder caused by excess stupidity. Your politicos and those in New Orleans charged with the duty of checking the levees need to be brought up on criminal charges.

Why should people die and those who knowingly and willfully caused it get off scott free?

I can normally see conspiracy were most can't and this whole Victorian fire scenario was waiting to happen due to the sheer amount of fuel on the ground and hot weather but incompetence is the culprit here without doubt.

The only possible conspiracy here is that the Government and Insurance companies conspired with the media to tug on the heart strings and purse strings of the public with stories of thirsty Koala's with burnt feet. You know the old con were the tax payers stump up the cash while greedy politicians sip Moet and eat caviar whilst wining and dining Mining magnates to snag back handers to open up mines on pastoral leases and spend the tax payers money on important things like Jaunts to Hawaii for fact finding missions.

I'm seeing lots of this from greedy Governments now and it makes me sick.

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
Conspiracy? Are you completely mad? This thread does a disservice to - and shows complete disrespect to the dead. The government didn't allow anything to happen. If you mentioned this as a conspiracy to the average Victorian (such as me) in the street they would shoot you down in flames. You know it, and I know it!

This thread is ridiculous!

IRM

How exactly does it show disrespect to the dead? The government didn't allow anything to happen? Hmmm.. What about fining people who used hazard reduction(clearing vegetation and burning) to protect their properties? People died because the government didn't manage the land properly and didn't allow people to manage it properly themselves. Surely the government can't be that idiotic.

*snip*

Uncovering the real story is probably the highest amount of respect you can show the dead. Guess what, the man who cleared the area around his house survived as did his house.


Mod Edit: No need for the personal insults. Cheers - Alien

[edit on 1-3-2009 by alien]

www.theaustralian.news.com.au...

I'm with many others on this thread:
Conspiracy... No!
Government stupidity... Yes!

from what I can see, more needs to be done with respect to burning programs. There have been firestorms in areas which have not been burnt, through controlled burns or natural fires, for 20 plus years.

Fire is very good for forests, but not for humans.

Tim

Originally posted by andrew123
How exactly does it show disrespect to the dead?

Simple! You link it to Martin Bryant and you proclaim both to be purposeful acts of the government to kill it's people. In short you turn it into a paranoid circus!

The government didn't allow anything to happen? Hmmm.. What about fining people who used hazard reduction(clearing vegetation and burning) to protect their properties?

It wasn't the government. Blame bi-laws and local council, who by the way, act autonomously on these issues. Also, because of the 'green push' (which is a good thing), the councils have been trying to maintain local flora in the interests of providing suitable habitats for indigenous/native animals.

There were also many people who were not fire-ready, which is somewhat complacent given where they lived.

So put your bull# aussie aussie aussie oi oi oi patriotism aside for a moment and have a look at the facts.

I'm an Aussie and I'm proud... Deal with it! Are you?
BTW, Your conspiratorial 'facts' are fantasy!

Uncovering the real story is probably the highest amount of respect you can show the dead.

Not when your version of the truth concludes that the government conspired to purposefully kill it's citizens. Listen to yourself man! Get educated! I won't be writing further rebuttals for the simple fact that I'm not contributing a further point to your ATS total in this thread.


Mod Edit: Hold off on the personal shots. Cheers - Alien

[edit on 1-3-2009 by alien]

Click here for more information.

While it could have been done to push forward a certain agenda would be hard to know, and as you can see in this thread Australian's would rather not know.

I don't know if it is a conspiracy or not but I don't think it's right to jump on anybody who's throwing the idea into the air. We pull the 9/11 tragedy to bits to debunk it and we're not even American.

Maybe it's too soon to talk about it .

the australian laws are far too strict on burning or chopping down of trees. the aboriginies never had this problem because they were always in control of the trees.

these days the people have no control over it.

trees+heat+wind+stupid firestarting bas@@rds = fire/death

Originally posted by Nventual
While it could have been done to push forward a certain agenda would be hard to know, and as you can see in this thread Australian's would rather not know.

I don't know if it is a conspiracy or not but I don't think it's right to jump on anybody who's throwing the idea into the air. We pull the 9/11 tragedy to bits to debunk it and we're not even American.

Maybe it's too soon to talk about it .

Wise words mate.

all this comes down too is huge mismanagement by the victorian government when it came to preparing the state for the bush fire season.

i know from a birds eye view from one of the Dromoder Fire bombers that the sickos who start these fires watch the observer aircraft fly over on their patrols and light the blaze behind them. by the time the aircraft or someone on the ground reports the fire its already too late.

The biggest problem is that there are 3 different fire authorities working to control blazes. the DSE and CFA do not work well together. We sat on the ground watching the Boolarra fire start, but due to political bs we were to told to wait on the ground while a ground crew checked it out. IF we had been allowed to do our job these fires would have never gotten out of control.

I believe BalderAsir put it into perspective. A conspiracy would not be worth us thinking about because we'd never truly find the truth, even when we found it we wouldn't be satisfied and will keep looking for more, that goes with any conspiracy.

But what is certain and without doubt is that the politics and preparation for these disasters are very questionable, and are what should be discussed here, at least at this point in time anyway.

reply to post by andrew123


there is a lot of money being made in light of the fires

This si undoubtedly one of the worst threads I've ever seen here, and there have been some doozies in the past. How dare you get off saying the fires were conspired by the Government?
Andrew, I'd love to take you with me over the next few days as I go back to help in Kinglake, Glenburn and Flowerdale. You can tell the survivors your theory. I'd suggest you have your running shoes on though!
You should be ashamed of yourself, I'm ashamed of you.
So many lives lost, so much property destroyed by an unstoppable wall of fire, much as I also faced in Ash Wednesday, and again lit by arsonists. Yes certainly the greenies have some answering to do, but it was not a damn conspiracy to kill entire towns!

Originally posted by Dragon33
This si undoubtedly one of the worst threads I've ever seen here, and there have been some doozies in the past. How dare you get off saying the fires were conspired by the Government?

Andrew, I'd love to take you with me over the next few days as I go back to help in Kinglake, Glenburn and Flowerdale. You can tell the survivors your theory. I'd suggest you have your running shoes on though!
You should be ashamed of yourself, I'm ashamed of you.
So many lives lost, so much property destroyed by an unstoppable wall of fire, much as I also faced in Ash Wednesday, and again lit by arsonists. Yes certainly the greenies have some answering to do, but it was not a damn conspiracy to kill entire towns!

Hmmm. So basically you are implying that people want to think it was a freak accident because they are too unwilling to think about the fact that government may have been at fault? The greenies should be strung up and killed.

Everything that happens ,happens for a reason.

It is hard to call this a conspiracy, yet the goverment will make the most out of it now in a way that control even more peoples lives.

Now they have an excuse to dictate how people will be able to live in certain areas, what they can and can't do ect.....

The enviromental groups have their finger in the pie by not allowing people to cut down old trees close to their homes, at the same time the goverment let them build in the areas.

Now for the record, I do have sympathy for the dead and those effected by the fires.
I will say that this has not gone away either.

Out of chaos comes control, and somehow this is going to work for the detrement for the majority in a way that looks benificial to us all.

a little like not being able to fish in certain areas even though you cant afford the price of fish in the stores.

Howard did his part in the destruction of Australia and now Rudd is having his turn.

No, I am not blaming Rudd for the fire, but he will use it to benefit the global warming scam somehow.

If there was any track at all, I'd say Munkey is the closest to it. While not orchestrated by the Government it is still very vulnerable to being used as a scapegoat or for taxes, etc.

A lot of people are still very defensive about Port Arthur too. Just goes to show that we don't like hearing about our own possibilities in conspiracies but are happy to say the U.S Government killed it's own people on 9/11 or that they didn't even land on the moon.

This thread is a disrespect to all those that fought, survived and died through the Victorian bushfires

The fires were caused by a combination of hot, dry conditions, high winds and possible arson. Fact is, bushfires are common in Australia in summer time, regardless of wether burning off occurs or not.

What are we supposed to do, burn off the entire bushland and scrub in Australias rural areas?

This just sounds like a pathetic attempt at point scoring, and what makes it worse, is you didnt even wait until the source of the fires has been discovered, or until rebuilding of the victims towns has began....or even until the threat of more bushfires has gone

Shame on you OP



[edit on 1/3/2009 by OzWeatherman]