Question for Unbelievers...

Originally posted by Trolloks
First of, if the FBI and whatever didnt take any notice, i would say screw you and leave it. You cant come back and say to me, "well you just let 100,000 people die", no, i didnt, i gave a warning, they didnt listen, there problem. Just becasue i knew the problem, doesnt mean its my fault they died.

Well, unfortunately, Trolloks, not all of us think of life the same way you do. I know a lot of people (on this forum, no doubt), that would guilt themselves a million ways to Sunday if 100,000 people died in this scenario. Just because you wouldn't, doesn't mean that other people do, or should, feel the same way.

I can say, however, that I feel Christians are going about it the wrong way when they think, "I'm the only chance this person will have! I have to convert them!" And they suddenly go into desperation mode. So I guess, in a sense I agree with your idea of "it's their problem." Though, were I personally in the situation I described (Disneyland), it would be a whole different matter, certainly.

Originally posted by Trolloks
And the gate one, i would shout, but if no one listend, i would get the hell out of there myself, yea i might be a b*****erd, but hey, im garrente most people would do the same as i just said, even if they say they would help and drag every single one, the truth is, natrual instinct gives us the survival instinct. The end of the day, its every man for himself.

Well, it seems that your world view is much different from a Christian's! I think the problem here, most of all, is that you are either unwilling or unable to see how another person views the world. Everyone has their own rules in regards to life, but its important to understand that not everyone knows yours, or follows them. I think this can be said for both sides, in my honest opinion.

Originally posted by B.A.C.
Not sure which Bible you read but:


M't:9:11: And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?
M't:9:12: But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
M't:9:13: But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Excerpt from the book "The Holographic Universe"
it reminds me so much of you:

When people with set beliefs converse with others, they try to justify their opinions by espousing and defending their opinions. Their judgements seldom change as a result of any new information they encounter, and they show little interest in allowing any real conversational interactional to take place.

Greetings

Thankfully, i wasn't brought up in a religious household. So at a young age I had no concept of God or anything like that. At school, when they started doing RS I didn't buy any of it. It always seemed to suck all the fun out of life. Don't so this, don't do that or you'll burn forever in a firey lake. But he loves you.

I'm stupid, but I'm not THAT stupid.

Now, later on in life I've kind of found my own little corner of spirituality. And I'm happy and confortable with my current belief system

Originally posted by Acidtastic
Now, later on in life I've kind of found my own little corner of spirituality. And I'm happy and confortable with my current belief system

Great posting, Acidtastic. You are dead right.

You used the words "happy", "comfortable" and "current" that make all the difference.

You are happy and comfortable with your beliefs. That's what a belief system is supposed to do. A belief systems is to make you feel good.
And you use this fantastic word "current". Yes, you are ready to change your mind.

I have got the impression that so many hardcore believers live in such a tremendous fear of their creators, that they have forgotten how to be happy and feel comfortable. Bogged down in the swamp of belief systems.

Greetings

Thank you. And yes, I am ready to change my mind. If I wasn't, then i'd have closed myself off spiratually long before now. I was an Athiest, then I thought that was a little "hard line" to say for sure. So I decided Agnostic was more fitting with what I thought. And then via a few medatative experiences, I figured out that the feeling that pours out from within, is a devine power. And hey presto I believe in a God!!!

Strange but true.

reply to post by Rollzio

If i remember correctly, you asked how I WOULD react in those situations.
You cant ask me a question then turn round and say, "well your wrong because that guy over there thinks differently"

Originally posted by TheWriter

Originally posted by B.A.C.
Not sure which Bible you read but:


M't:9:11: And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?
M't:9:12: But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
M't:9:13: But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Excerpt from the book "The Holographic Universe"
it reminds me so much of you:

When people with set beliefs converse with others, they try to justify their opinions by espousing and defending their opinions. Their judgements seldom change as a result of any new information they encounter, and they show little interest in allowing any real conversational interactional to take place.

Greetings

Nice, but did you see the post I was responding to?

Of course my religious beliefs are "set" (to a certain extent), are not your atheist beliefs? (notice I said atheist, just for you)

If you could provide me with evidence God didn't exist, I'd change my views.

Probably the same as if I could provide you with evidence that he did exist.

Unfortunately, neither of us can PROVE the other wrong.

So here we are.





[edit on 3-3-2009 by B.A.C.]

Originally posted by B.A.C.
Nice, but did you see the post I was responding to?

Of course my religious beliefs are "set" (to a certain extent), are not your atheist beliefs? (notice I said atheist, just for you)

If you could provide me with evidence God didn't exist, I'd change my views.

Probably the same as if I could provide you with evidence that he did exist.

Unfortunately, neither of us can PROVE the other wrong.

So here we are.

B.A.C., I saw that you weren't addressing me, but hey - I thought you would like the posting (LOL).

I am not an atheist. In fact I pretty much know that there is something. You could ask me "how I know" and then I would tell you through spiritual experiences since earliest childhood; long time before "Spirituality" as we now know it it became mainstream topic.

You may not believe me, but I am happy that you have got your belief. In fact I would be even happier if everyone would be happier. And I don't even want to prove you wrong. I am not interested in that. It is a discussion forum and not a flirt forum, so disagreements are daily business. -lol-

For me it is all just a matter about open-mindedness, but I have no personal interest to convert anyone or any intention to convert/persuade/convince anyone - anywhere. I most likely get attacked by someone now (it is always the same) - but hey - it's OK. And nobody must believe me either. Heck, anyone who wants to call me a whack-job for what I say I know shall be free to do that. I have been called worse in my life.

So far, I am out of this discussion. Reading a book.

Greetings to all.


[edit on 3-3-2009 by TheWriter]

When you were a child, did you believe in God?

I mean before you learned anything about religion or the bible, did you believe in God, at least as the creator of the world?

If yes, explain in which way.

If no, explain why not?

I believed that there was some kind of unseen force that was responsible for all that is.

When I was taught about the Bible, I viewed it much as any other religion...an "attempt" to assign some human attributes to the force behind all of creation. While I was continually taught this to be fact...it didn't ring right with me.

I do believe there is some kind of divine architect of creation, but I don't believe that any one religion has it right. The thought of such a being "needing" our worship, or requiring obedience is somewhat laughable to me... More than likely, what people refer to as "God" is more like an artist who simply creates, and once created, the creation simply is...as he's moved on to the next canvas....

Originally posted by TheWriter

Originally posted by B.A.C.
Nice, but did you see the post I was responding to?

Of course my religious beliefs are "set" (to a certain extent), are not your atheist beliefs? (notice I said atheist, just for you)

If you could provide me with evidence God didn't exist, I'd change my views.

Probably the same as if I could provide you with evidence that he did exist.

Unfortunately, neither of us can PROVE the other wrong.

So here we are.

B.A.C., I saw that you weren't addressing me, but hey - I thought you would like the posting (LOL).

I am not an atheist. In fact I pretty much know that there is something. You could ask me "how I know" and then I would tell you through spiritual experiences since earliest childhood; long time before "Spirituality" as we now know it it became mainstream topic.

You may not believe me, but I am happy that you have got your belief. In fact I would be even happier if everyone would be happier. And I don't even want to prove you wrong. I am not interested in that. It is a discussion forum and not a flirt forum, so disagreements are daily business. -lol-

For me it is all just a matter about open-mindedness, but I have no personal interest to convert anyone or any intention to convert/persuade/convince anyone - anywhere. I most likely get attacked by someone now (it is always the same) - but hey - it's OK. And nobody must believe me either. Heck, anyone who wants to call me a whack-job for what I say I know shall be free to do that. I have been called worse in my life.

So far, I am out of this discussion. Reading a book.

Greetings to all.


[edit on 3-3-2009 by TheWriter]

That's all I made this thread for, to see if people knew there was "something" (I call it God), since they were children. In other words without outside influence, hopefully.

Cheers.

reply to post by Trolloks


Well, I just have a short attention span, don't I? I do apologize for that. My question was meant in a general sense, though its obvious I didn't convey that properly.

The mood of your writing suggested that you were purposely trying to make my attempts at providing perspective null. I was trying to put you in another person's shoes, and help you understand how a Christian views this world. Your response suggested you weren't willing to do that. Again, I apologize.

Anyway, I think I've derailed this thread enough. I didn't come here for a debate on beliefs and religion, I wanted to offer a different point of view. If I've failed in that, then so be it.

When I was a kid, I was made to go to church ALL THE TIME. Then, after my Great Grandmother died, my Grandpa (step - grandpa) decided to take it upon himself to cram as much information as he could about the bible, God and Jesus into my head as he could. That was excruciating. I can't tell you how boring it was to listen to him drone on and on and on for hours about stuff that may or may not have happened sooooo long ago.

That being said.

I attend church now as a purely obligatory thing with my family if I'm on leave. I am not religious by any stretch of the word.

I hate religion.

That being said - I'm not disputing a higher power. Whether that power be an alpha male figure, a god/goddess mix, or hell - our own thought-forms, I don't know. I'll probably never know. But you know what - I'm comfortable with that.

reply to post by Rollzio


I was not trying to prove anyones propsective as null, and i do understand a christians view (a few of my friends are jahovas whitnesses) and i respect their views as they respect mine.

I can see were it looked angry, but i was mearly frustrated that no one was taking note of my views, and simply saying "im sorry you dont believe, it worrys me that you are an unbeliver" and that word unbeliver was just pecking at my noggin,lol.

Never did get how Jahovah's Witnesses gain followers...

Can't celebrate (anything)...
According to the Bible, only 144,000 get the reprieve they seek...
These 144,000 must be virgin males (again, the Bible's words, not mine)
And they must be descended from the 12 tribes of Israel...(see above)

How do women even decide to join this religion? Maybe I've got something wrong about it, but it seems the basic idea is live plain, work hard, and you'll be one of the ones saved when the poop hits the fan... Seems like a pretty morbid life outlook to me....but then to each his own...

Originally posted by Gazrok
Never did get how Jahovah's Witnesses gain followers...

Can't celebrate (anything)...
According to the Bible, only 144,000 get the reprieve they seek...
These 144,000 must be virgin males (again, the Bible's words, not mine)
And they must be descended from the 12 tribes of Israel...(see above)

How do women even decide to join this religion? Maybe I've got something wrong about it, but it seems the basic idea is live plain, work hard, and you'll be one of the ones saved when the poop hits the fan... Seems like a pretty morbid life outlook to me....but then to each his own...

I agree completely. Their church has MILLIONS of members, I guess only (according to their beliefs) the elite or worthy members are going to heaven.

That should be enough for them to wake up and see how the church (religion IMO) is flawed.

Originally posted by Trolloks
reply to post by Rollzio

 

I was not trying to prove anyones propsective as null, and i do understand a christians view (a few of my friends are jahovas whitnesses) and i respect their views as they respect mine.

I can see were it looked angry, but i was mearly frustrated that no one was taking note of my views, and simply saying "im sorry you dont believe, it worrys me that you are an unbeliver" and that word unbeliver was just pecking at my noggin,lol.

Do you believe? Or don't you?

If you don't believe, unbeliever is a fitting title.

If you DO believe in a higher power (call it what you will), then you're a believer.

Again, I would have used the word Atheist, but unbeliever is a better description, because some religions, such as Jainism and Buddhism, do not require belief in a personal god. Yet, they are not Atheists.

See my logic? Not trying to insult anyone.

Then there are the Agnostics..."There may be...may not...don't have enough evidence to go either way on it..."

Personally, I don't believe in just "chance" causing all of this, but I also don't accept an old man sittin' on clouds playing voyeur either....

Originally posted by Gazrok
Then there are the Agnostics..."There may be...may not...don't have enough evidence to go either way on it..."

Personally, I don't believe in just "chance" causing all of this, but I also don't accept an old man sittin' on clouds playing voyeur either....

I'd like your opinions on this: www.abovetopsecret.com... another thread I created.

Playing voyeur, I LOL'd for real when I read that

When I was a child I did believe in god. I was raised Catholic so I believed everything that my parents and the church taught me. When I became old enough to question those beliefs, I realized just how silly many of them are. I mean, talking snakes?...virgin birth?...heaven and hell?...creationism? Really?
In college I studied many of the world's religions and I found Buddhism and Taoism to be very interesting. I also found that the more I learned about Christianity, the less I wanted to do with it. And besides, there is absolutely no empirical evidence to support any of it. I know that this is where faith comes in, but I cannot have faith in something without having at least a shred of evidence to support that it exists.
Now I am an atheist. After years of studying many of the world's religions I have come to the conclusion that there is no god, that organized religion does more harm than good, and that the only rational stance is atheism. I do still like the moral teachings of Buddhism, but I don't believe in reincarnation or karma.