A Conspiracy Against ATS?

reply to post by Skyfloating


i have been here almost as long as you, i know what the site is or isn't and the attacks experienced on an almost daily basis. i'm saying this isn't necessarily sinister.

i assumed nothing except the idea that there is going to have to be some sort of list in existence because it seems like the most obvious thing to do. i wondered how one would get on such a list and weather or not i was included on a list.

i feel i can't be any clearer. so seeing as you've decided to take an interest would you care to give me a straight answer. (even if that answerr is "i'm not telling you")

is there a list and am i on it?



and i said nothing about deletion, why bring it up?

[edit on 3/3/09 by pieman]

reply to post by pieman


There is no such list. I´d immediately step down from the site if there were such a list.




[edit on 3-3-2009 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by pieman
or you could keep this crap up and alienate the last of the membership that cares about the content.

"This crap"?

The site is, amongst other things based on conspiracy theories.

And how does one topic, by me, affect the content on ATS? The ATS staff enforce the T&C and sometimes contribute to the discussions/start discussions themselves.

From the stats page

New posts: Past 24 hours: 6,366
New posts: Past 7 days: 44,344
New posts: Past 30 days: 182,942

There are 69 staff, including owners and admin and roughly 25% of that number are inactive at any one time - as would be expected from a voluntary group - leaving about 51 people. Unless the staff are contributing upwards of 50% of the content (and that would mean we were posting 62 uniquely contributing posts each per day - which we plainly are not - how is it us that affects the ATS content? The members contributions affect the content on ATS.

In the past 24 hours, there have been 41 staff actions on posts. 41 out of 6,366. Thats just over 0.5% of the total posts. And less than a quarter of those have been post deletions for serious T&C breaches.

That is the unique perspective I'm coming from. Because I can see that information. And I can see it when it comes in clusters. And no, I can't be more specific than that, because of staff/member confidentialites.

You, on the other hand, are making blanket statements, and assumptions.

I wouldn't have raised the issue about apparent organised attacks if I wasn't serious about it. Its not the staff that are trying to alienate the membership on ATS. Its a determined group, or groups of people who are trying to maximise negativity any way they can.

And if you don't believe me, then fine, thats your call. I can live with it. All I can do is discuss it and make people aware of what I think.

reply to post by pieman


Your original post a few pages back actually went in the right direction.

There is not much difference between the members of ATS and the staff of ATS. All staff except for Simon Gray were first members. They came here, fascinated by the subject.

Later on they were asked if they could help up keeping the place civil.

There is no "us vs. them".

there is absolutely an us and them thing developing, the fact that i think you guys are too close to see it is the reason i bought it up. i don't think the mods are driving it.

read your replies to me and tell me you two didn't assume i was going to attack you over censorship or accuse you of being nazi's, even though that was never my intention.

what is that except an "us and them" thing?

i wish you'ld just take a sec and consider it.

reply to post by pieman

Originally posted by pieman
or you could keep this crap up and alienate the last of the membership that cares about the content.

who's attacking who?

reply to post by neformore


sorry, i thought i was perfectly clear in outlining the fact that i thought this "us and them" thing was crap and coming from both the membership and mod's.

this type of suspicion is nothing new but i can't remember having seen a thread to that effect initiated by a moderator and this week is the first time i've seen it mentioned among long standing members. it's getting hard enough to be called a wedge. i think it's a sign that perspective is needed before the whole thing splinters and collapses.

perhaps i feel you, as mods, have a responsibility to lead and help "keep the place civil", am i wrong?

like i said, you're seeing monsters.

[edit on 3/3/09 by pieman]

A Conspiracy against ATS

WTF! Carefull with your accusations neforemore your generalising, so if we don't agree with the way ATS is going were in a conspiracy against ATS.

This is crap.

Many of us here are totally despairing over the way democracy is circumvented especially in the USA.

Irrespective of that last year ATS was turned in to a #in arena for the 2008 Presidential election, that was bull#. Lets not get started on the delusion that is politics, and lets get started on why that #in circus was allowed on the internets leading conspiracy forum. Were fighting the bastards and you let them set up home here and turn ATS into a joke.

Sort this out, conspiracy as a subject was crowded out by which colour we liked, or whether Barack or John was more trustworthy.

Are we all out to get ATS because we don't like the way this site is steered, and we let you know about it.

Make up your minds don't try and be two things at once, go the commercial route ban the discussion on drugs and promote politics as a subject matter. Or become an alternative web site where anything is discussed even if the sponsers don't like it and the over sensible get bent out of shape because drugs are bad.

Originally posted by carslake
A Conspiracy against ATS

WTF! Carefull with your accusations neforemore your generalising, so if we don't agree with the way ATS is going were in a conspiracy against ATS.

No one has said that.

Are we all out to get ATS because we don't like the way this site is steered, and we let you know about it.

No one has said that either.

Make up your minds don't try and be two things at once, go the commercial route ban the discussion on drugs and promote politics as a subject matter. Or become an alternative web site where anything is discussed even if the sponsers don't like it and the over sensible get bent out of shape because drugs are bad.

This thread isn't about drugs, or politics. Its about organised attempts to disrupt the board, and cast ATS in a negative light.

Maybe you should re-read whats been written here?

reply to post by pieman


You`re the won assuming we`re on such a high horse that we would entertain making blacklists of potential troublemakers.

Im the one telling you that we are members ourselves, with a similar mindset to yours and wouldnt possibly accept such blacklists.

Now, back on topic:

ATS has been targeted by marketeers, political movements, propagandists, deflectors for the purpose of steering information.

ATS is like all other internet outlets, vulnerable to that. Its a no-brainer.

The purpose of this thread was to explore the various sources of attacks as it pertains to this website.

reply to post by Skyfloating


on topic!!!!!
the cheek of you.

i am on topic, you say there is a conspiracy, i say not so. how can you tell there's a freaking conspiracy?

this is in general conspiracy, i have every right to question your evidence and suggest alternative explanations. if you want to put up a defense of "it's a no brainer" then move it to skunk works and be done with it.

i expect this rubbish from week old members, you should know better.

[edit on 3/3/09 by pieman]

[edit on 3/3/09 by pieman]

and another thing, i clearly stated that to make a list of potential conspirators wouldn't be particularly invasive, it would seem a natural step. you're the on projecting evil intent into my statement.

this is the second time you have implied intent not stated into my posts, why is that?

[edit on 3/3/09 by pieman]

reply to post by pieman


Imagine, at some other website, people get together and plan deliberate attacks here. Its happened. I know about it from experience.

Or imagine how a group of people plan to subtly insert advertising their agenda here. Its happened. I know about it from experience.

Why is it so unlikely?

THank you for that information it was really interesting to read.

reply to post by Skyfloating


that doesn't have implications for confidentiality, in either case, so there isn't a moral issue as regards posting links, why don't you?

if you know this is happening, fine, i am open to the idea. i just want more than your word on the issue. i want to know why you believe as you do in detail so i can examine the evidence and come to my own conclusion.

you know, just general denial of ignorance in the traditional vein that drew us here.

at the moment, my conclusion is that you're being paranoid and that your paranoia is destructive to the community given your position. i have clearly stated this position and my reasoning behind it. if it turns out i'm wrong then i'll say "i'm wrong".

reply to post by neformore

Before I became a mod, as a member, I noticed that ATS was being visited by a "cluster" of bigots. These people manifested themselves in a number of ways, some were subtle, some more direct.

You are not imagining things, I came from a forum that was destroyed by this same problem,

A group with an agenda started posting, they all seemed to know one another and ganged up on any original member, that dare question them, sadly the mods, did little to nothing, when they did finally ban one of the new members all hell broke lose.

When they left they set out to totally shut down the forum, by Pm'ing any new member and luring them over to their new site.

Now the attacked site no longer accepts new members.

It was a horror show.

I went searching and investigating as did other members, one forum I did find was a forum set up to attack and trash forums they disagreed with regarding religion and politics, they were openly planning their next more .

They hated Christians, which especially, seemed to be their target.

I wonder if GM knew they could have made better cars beginning back in the 1970's, but decided to reward and hire idiots into the upper levels of the company, rather than actually create better vehicles or to have "kaizen" or "excellence" as their guiding policy as did the Japanese carmakers.

Why would they do that? Well because people within a certain power-demographic, will always trend toward each other and away from those "not with us"... So I as a GM exec, I can hire my ass-headed buddy and get him a great job, that benefits me and my ass-headed buddy, at a cost to the bottom line of GM.

So does this mean that there was a conspiracy against GM? Because obviously what I described above, is exactly what happened. The point is this: The people in control were happy, and it had nothing to do with "the product".

Similarly, the tops at ATS think they're doing a good job, and I'd agree with them for the most part, but the new threats to their market are coming in now, and with Internet Forums, it is TRUTH which is the most attractive nectar. With cars you could say it was RELIABILITY which people started to sense with the newer Japanese cars when they came. Similarly I'd expect the newer websites out there to have truth as their highest value, and one might imagine ATS might lose that battle (but maybe not lose their profit margin) as these websites take that larger step into the human condition and really try to help humans. In such a world, where is ATS?

A car with no tires, isn't worth much, and neither is a site where we can discuss website-invalidating mega-threads like SERPRO but not topics which actually involve human feelings or experiences (medicines/mind altering substances)

Frankly it's things like the Chevy Cobalt and SERPRO that made me think some people at the top are high-as-kites. Fake conspiracies and intrigue are more than boring, they are the enemies of truth just like bad cars are the enemy of those who love to drive.

So I'd like to see a little less defensiveness and righteousness from the top in both GM and ATS. People need a valuable conveyance of both themselves (cars) and their ideas (truth). The people who provide slick-looking exteriors but junky half-working internals, will always be exposed. But the mid-60s Chevies and some great posts by some users (many now gone) means the whole thing was worthwhile, regardless of the future. What has gone before is rich enough and real enough to be remembered long after that richness and realness, is gone.

Some folks would argue with a fence post if no one was around.

This thread has gone beyond ludicrous. There is no point in continuing to argue when it is obvious that no one is going to change their point of view. This is nothing but a drama fest now. It is non productive.

I know from experience that Internet gangs exist. They exist for various reasons.

ATS is a power to be reckoned with. We are a voice of truth. The site owners have been successful in building a well run organization. There are people that are opposed to this success and to truth.

I will try to make this as simple as possible.

When we joined this site we agreed to follow the rules.

This is a private site just as my living room in my house is private. I do not allow people to curse, get wasted on alcohol or be hateful or hurtful to any of my guest. If they don't agree with my rules they have to exit my home immediately. No exceptions.

We are guests on this private site. We are expected to follow the rules or be called on our disobedience. If we do not like the rules we should exit the site.

Just as my rules are non negotiable so are the rules of ATS.

Why is that so hard to understand?

Are respect and integrity things of the past? I hope not.

I have to address something - sorry, but I need to get it off my chest.

This site, that "censors", that "doesn't listen", that "doesn't care about what the members want", just did this

The New ATS Policy on Drug-Related Topics.

So now can we get back to what this topic was actually about, which is organised disruption of the forum, for the sake of it, please?

Thanks.

Originally posted by neformore
I have to address something - sorry, but I need to get it off my chest.

This site, that "censors", that "doesn't listen", that "doesn't care about what the members want", just did this

The New ATS Policy on Drug-Related Topics.

So now can we get back to what this topic was actually about, which is organised disruption of the forum, for the sake of it, please?

Thanks.

Yup ,I posted my experience on this subject.

Yes it happens.

reply to post by neformore


DEFINITELY.!!

I've seen it and started a thread about it before too.
Not just relating to the recent 'Stoner kiddies' either.

Deliberate attempts to draw attention to current minor grievances,influx of new members suddenly 'experts' on the matter in question..and forum operations too??.. Hmmmm.. very curious.

Guys here less than a week starting 'I'm fed up with ATS' threads??

(When did patience stop becoming a virtue? )

The current problem and claims of 'free speech infringement' only came about because the site owners/operators were dumb enough to think that people could conduct themselves in a suitable and intelligent manner.

Fortunately MOST people here can.

The rest will try their luck with the 'Next Big Issue'..Whatever it may be.