Do these mysterious stones mark the site of the Garden of Eden?

Originally posted by virgthevoice
reply to post by Salvatore_Rubberface

 

about the carbon dating not being correct - curious. how would this have been altered by the flood?

I guess what he's trying to say is, the earth is not as old as science says, it is as old as the bible says, and because of the flood, all dates are wrong and science is mistaken right? well, did the flood also happened in mars or the rest of the planets? what about the stars age? taking the bible literally not always results in a good thing, i'm sorry but if you are trying to say that the flood can explain why the earth's age debunks the bible's version of our history, i gotta say that you are using pseudoscience and it completely takes away your credibility, try something else next time.

But anyway, what i was getting at is, carbon dating works only for organic material, not for rocks, and if there's the case that someone can use it on a rock, there must be specific circumstances, very specific, and from what the pics show, this is not one of those cases, so the article is misleading and the writer is not very well informed on this, and that also makes all these into a fairy tale, all that talk about the eden and what not, where all that came from?

I am interested in the real value of the finding and not on what the imagination of the writer want us to think.


[edit on 28-2-2009 by Kaifan]

Originally posted by bpg131313
reply to post by Kaifan

 

Kaifan,

If you do find more detailed information regarding this dig, I'm sure we'd all love to read it. I've googled it, but haven't found anything substantial. Hopefully you'll have better luck. The carvings in the stones are fascinating.

Linky here:
en.wikipedia.org...öbekli_Tepe

Link doesn't work because of the ö letter and i don't know how to fix that , so here's the url, just add the "Göbekli_Tepe" at the end :

en.wikipedia.org... Göbekli_Tepe

And seems i was wrong, there is the possibility of dating the stones on this site, as the article in the wiki explains, thought not with exact dates, but still should be very close.

Here, some threads on ATS:

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Maybe you did your search with an o, instead of ö ?

[edit on 28-2-2009 by Kaifan]

[edit on 28-2-2009 by Kaifan]

reply to post by BorgHoffen

A garden in the Middle Ages was susposed to be a "Perfection" of land and
very beutiful... That's funny, since the Bible we read is usually the King James version, it might have been called a different name before.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


actually the title is quiet right, they think this is actually the exact area mentioned in the bible! I as a general skeptic and science minded person do have to agree that this could well be the area alluded to, even down to the snake iconography.

The bible is made up of old folk tales which have been molded int a single narrative. It's highly likely that as we moved from being hunters to farmers the type of story we told changed, however for practical reasons we can assume hunters stories included a historical element already -nomad stories often include directions and locations of watering holes and farmer stories include details about crop cycles, blights, ect. So we can easily accept that as had need of this knowledge they passed it down, the tradition of story telling is found in all human cultures ever found right back to 16,000 years ago -they would have a set of traditions and commonly told tales, histories, etc and these would evolve over time. The highly accurate hunters directions could well have carried through into the farmers tale of the old times before they started farming thus the exact location of the home land could well have remained clear right through to early biblical times.

The Zulu were first dismissed in their folk tales of coming from north africa which then turned to desert but recent anthropological and geologic finds have proved that indeed they probably did -they managed to remember that fact through over 3000years of oral tradition.

So the forefathers of the bible's scribes could well have passed down an accurate tale, a tale of how back at the start of time we lived in luxury with everything we needed in easy reach but then we ate all the fruit and the land became barren and we needed to till and work it to make it produce food. The answer to 'why did that happen?' could only be 'oh god was angry, it was a womans fault' they didn't understand agriculture properly yet so couldn't describe the nitrogen depleted soil.

It;s kinda a stark warning, look after what you have or you might ruin everything -meh, we didn't listen did we? haha i bet Al'Gatherer made a cave painting 'inconvienient truth' but Hunter Palin didn't believe it because the old stories spoke of wise oldman saying 'this is nice, lets live here' and he didn't say anything about running out of food in two thousand years. time Kinda ironic we find it now that we just realized we made the same mistake again.

reply to post by virgthevoice

I just went to the links - what is the Urantia book??

I'll send you a U2U. Would be totally OT to talk about the Urantia book on this thread without any connection to the OP.

Alexandros

I personally believe the "Garden of Eden" was indeed an area but not one specific area , it was basically the 3 degrees either side of the equator man can live without cloths and fire and housing.

The further you move away from this area , the more you have to use technology to alter your environment.

I think the warning we received about leaving this state was simple , once you cross that line you cant go back , man will eventually destroy the planet. It is inevitable.

"Someone" smart gave us that warning , we ignored it.

I am sure some people today would rationalize it and say , " but Man is smart enough to control the destruction , surely " and I am also very sure that’s exactly what they said as they left the "Garden of Eden" .

Amazing really!
The evidence keeps rolling in. We are clueless about the past, but no one is re-writing the history books. Every time a new piece of the puzzle is found, they try and cram it into our already conceived perception of what the finished puzzle looks like. For instance: the article mentions the another near-by site outside of Çayönü, Turkey:

A few years ago, archaeologists at nearby Cayonu unearthed a hoard of human skulls. They were found under an altar-like slab, stained with human blood. No one is sure, but this may be the earliest evidence for human sacrifice: one of the most inexplicable of human behaviours and one that could have evolved only in the face of terrible societal stress. Experts may argue over the evidence at Cayonu. But what no one denies is that human sacrifice took place in this region, spreading to Palestine, Canaan and Israel. Archaeological evidence suggests that victims were killed in huge death pits, children were buried alive in jars, others roasted in vast bronze bowls.

"others roasted in vast bronze bowls" you say? That's interesting because the site dates to at least 7200 BC. Yet our children's history books still place the Bronze-Age at around 3000 BC.
Maybe it is time we dismantle the history puzzle and start over!!!

I want to hunt down the writer of the story and beat them over the head with all the material that's been published about Gobekli Tepe since 1964. I really, really, really want to rant because the article apparently didn't involve any research other than opening the Bible.

Shame on BBC. Their articles are usually better than that.

And the "inscriptions as a warning" -- I *REALLY* wanted to smack them a few times with that.

Shame on BBC for that horrible farce of an article.

(end of rant. I'll go settle down now)

Originally posted by smarteye
Amazing really!
The evidence keeps rolling in. We are clueless about the past, but no one is re-writing the history books.

We are, constantly, but there's a limit to the amount of material you can put in. If we put in EVERYTHING we know about ancient history, we'd spend 10 hours per day, 365 days per year, teaching kids for 12 years and there'd still be material that we hadn't covered.

Sorry to rain on the parade, but isn't it all within?

The garden of eden is within as well.

Think about it,

reply to post by Byrd

If we put in EVERYTHING we know about ancient history, we'd spend 10 hours per day, 365 days per year, teaching kids for 12 years and there'd still be material that we hadn't covered.

We would still fall short of the Chinese education period
Really then perhaps history books should be more alive, with new information constantly being inputted. History books should be e-books.

Nice post and very interesting architecture.. however ny simply looking at the erosion of the stones its pretty easy to see that they would not date back more than a thousand years.. probably some hunters gathering point modeled on the prevailant mythology at the time.. still cool though.

reply to post by NeonStar

simply looking at the erosion of the stones its pretty easy to see that they would not date back more than a thousand years..

Cliff Clavin is that you?

Are you saying that you have concluded that the site is more like a 1000 years of age? Did you read the part where it was buried and there for preserved?

[edit on

reply to post by BorgHoffen


I am an avid reader of this sort of archeological find, and have read what you have written to this exciting thread. May I recommend the following book as reference to you and whom ever else may feel the need to read up on the Garden of Eden issue.
Title: LEGEND The Genisis of Civilisation
author: David ROHL
ISBN: 0-09-979991-X

There is text that leads the reader to Bahrain as being the Garden of Eden in ages past. A very interesting and well researched book.

Originally posted by LostNemesis
OK with everyone flagging this thread so quickly...


Can I just ask if I am the only one that read the whole article, seeing discrepancies (sp?) in the story???

No your not the only one. I still think it's a valuable find. The Tigris and Euphrates are just two rivers mentioned in the bible anyway. It was in the middle of four. Just one thing that comes to mind.

Who ever wrote this wants it to be the garden of Eden. It's obvious.

Oh my... could this be a settlement of the Watchers?

Enoch lived in the time, when these giants ruled the Earth. The Watchers (Greek Grigori) were fallen angels, who took mortal women as wives, and they fathered giants. These wicked giants were the cause of God in bringing the Flood in the Genesis (from Gen. 6, 7 and 8).

Two hundred angels followed Semjaza's descent to earth, under the leadership of twenty captains and divided accordingly.

[Enoch Chapter 7]

1 And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms 2 and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants. And they 3 became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells: Who consumed 4 all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants turned against 5 them and devoured mankind. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and 6 fish, and to devour one another's flesh, and drink the blood. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

A few years ago, archaeologists at nearby Cayonu unearthed a hoard of human skulls. They were found under an altar-like slab, stained with human blood.

No one is sure, but this may be the earliest evidence for human sacrifice: one of the most inexplicable of human behaviours and one that could have evolved only in the face of terrible societal stress.

Experts may argue over the evidence at Cayonu. But what no one denies is that human sacrifice took place in this region, spreading to Palestine, Canaan and Israel.

Archaeological evidence suggests that victims were killed in huge death pits, children were buried alive in jars, others roasted in vast bronze bowls.

These are almost incomprehensible acts, unless you understand that the people had learned to fear their gods, having been cast out of paradise. So they sought to propitiate the angry heavens.

This savagery may, indeed, hold the key to one final, bewildering mystery. The astonishing stones and friezes of Gobekli Tepe are preserved intact for a bizarre reason.

Long ago, the site was deliberately and systematically buried in a feat of labour every bit as remarkable as the stone carvings.

Around 8,000 BC, the creators of Gobekli turned on their achievement and entombed their glorious temple under thousands of tons of earth, creating the artificial hills on which that Kurdish shepherd walked in 1994.

No one knows why Gobekli was buried. Maybe it was interred as a kind of penance: a sacrifice to the angry gods, who had cast the hunters out of paradise. Perhaps it was for shame at the violence and bloodshed that the stone-worship had helped provoke.

Whatever the answer, the parallels with our own era are stark. As we contemplate a new age of ecological turbulence, maybe the silent, sombre, 12,000-year-old stones of Gobekli Tepe are trying to speak to us, to warn us, as they stare across the first Eden we destroyed.

"Roasted in vast bronze bowls"..... anyone catch that? The Bronze age started in 2300 BC and ended in 700 BC. If this place was buried in 8,000 b.c. and Canyonu at around 7,000 BC then how the hell did they have this technology... it is a bit out of place.

The Cayonu settlement which is not far from the city of Diyarbakir has been unearthed by the expedition teams under the leadership of Cambel, Braidwood, Mehmet Ozdogan, Wulf Schirmen and it is dated back to 7250-6750 BC (still, way beyond the 4000 B.C. of known bronze. Where the hell did these giant people roasting vats come from?

www.turizm.net...

The oldest known Bronze: "The place and time of the invention of bronze are controversial. It is possible that bronzing was invented independently in the Maykop culture in the North Caucasus as far back as the mid 4th millennium BC, which would make them the makers of the oldest known bronze; but others date the same Maykop artifacts to the mid 3rd millennium BC."

www.youtube.com...


Very interesting indeed


[edit on 1-3-2009 by infolurker]

[edit on 1-3-2009 by infolurker]

Wow I thought that this was very very interesting and am looking forward to eventually seeing everything else that they discover at the site. The thinking of this place as being the Garden of Eden is a thrilling possibility. Anyways it is amazing to see the detail and extent of the place that these people lived in and created so so long ago.

reply to post by smokingman2006


Very cool find! I am sure to be following this up, what a story and implications! One of the stones looks like it has a dinasour on it!

An interesting find indeed smokingman a star and flag for you! This may not be Eden but it very possibly maybe the closest that we come to an actual location.