2nd U.S. soldier in Iraq challenges eligibility

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Dude your thought process is so one-dimensional
Congress has proven to be useless and are to blame of course
but who's doing the actual going abroad?

No, my thought process is firmly rooted in reality. The reality of the situation is that Congress writes the laws, Congress passes them, Congress increases and decreases taxes. The military has nothing to do with any of it. If you are going to throw blame around, at least throw it in the proper direction.

Time to start looking at the bigger picture, because right now you aren't at all

You mean the one where the military has become the scapegoat for everything the government does? I see it every day.

I believe I remember a few people from the CIA saying terroism as we know it today visibly started once the U.S. installed the Shah of Iran.

I don't recall that. Doesn't mean they didn't say that, but I don't remember it. You still haven't explained why there was terrorism prior to the war though. There has been terrorism since at least 1878, if not before depending on which scholar you talk to, and not all of it was the result of occupation thus it has not all been blow-back.

Again look at the bigger picture.
There wouldn't be any corporate warfare if it wasn't for the army.
no army going abroad = no war

Again, the military isn't responsible for the mistakes of the government. Corporate warfare has nothing to do with the military. Corporate warfare is companies fighting for customers. The ads we watch on tv every day are part of it. So tell me, what am I missing that equates shampoo commercials with the military? What am I missing that equates "buy a Mac not a PC" with the military?

Maybe my way of thinking isn't turning our backs on them.
Maybe your way of thinking is prolonging their agony.

Or maybe my way of thinking understands that leaving Iraq in ruins with Iraqis killing Iraqis would have done nothing but resulted in many more innocent deaths. Maybe my way of thinking understands that yeah we probably shouldn't have gone there to begin with, but we did and it was better to help the people who's country was in ruins and who had no government than to leave them at the mercy of whatever tyrant scared them the most. Maybe my way of thinking understands that the government is responsible for all the messes they have created, not a group of people who had nothing to do with the decision making process.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
[quote

Hey modernacademia, quit bein' a hoser, eh?

Its no wonder you have no love for the US or her troops! Your from Canada!

And to all you AMERICANS out there reading this and bashing our troops, I wish I could send you to a world where we didnt have these great men and women to protect your sniveling a**es so you could get a taste of what your life would be like without them. Instead, you get to sit here on your duff and verbally abuse the very men and women you keep you safe and free.

I refuse to allow any more idiots to draw me into posting responses to their warped idea of the world, therefore this is my last one. I wont give credence to idiotic ideas by responding to them. I promise you that if these conversations were face to face they would be hugely different.

Originally posted by Bushi
Now, for those who are against the men and women of our country who decided to put their life on hold to defend yours,

If you read the CIA's 911 commission report you will see that foreign occupation puts everyone in more danger, not less.

Originally posted by Bushi
As a former member of the Military it is very insulting to hear your hateful opinions of us. Your insults not only hurt me and mine. Your insults destroy the honor of those that have DIED over the course of history of this country!!

No offense man but 95% of people who debate with me on this topic always come back with nothing more than an emotional response.

No facts, no logic just blind emotion!

Isn't it way MORE offensive to fool people into thinking there's a threat, make them risk their lives killing many innocent people so that rich war-profiteers can get richer?

Isn't that more offensive and life-threatening?

Originally posted by Bushi
You are taking the actions of a few and labeling the whole!! Most people in the military WILL tell you that they will follow the orders of the officers appointed over them, and that is precisely what they will do.

So being an automaton is the right thing to do?

Originally posted by Bushi
So for all you out there that want to just start flaming on what I have said, I welcome the to do so. It is your RIGHT to do so, the very RIGHT that young americans have given their LIVES to protect.

No, no flaming
I don't flame, but I do get flamed

By the way, as mentioned soldiers occupuying foreign nations are depleting our freedoms not protecting them.

Originally posted by treemanx
Hey modernacademia, quit bein' a hoser, eh?

Its no wonder you have no love for the US or her troops! Your from Canada!

Me wanting them to return to their families instead of risking their lives so that rich people can get richer is having no love for them?

Many of them want to come home, me wanting their wish to be granted for everyone's benefit is hating them?

Originally posted by treemanx
I refuse to allow any more idiots to draw me into posting responses to their warped idea of the world, therefore this is my last one. I wont give credence to idiotic ideas by responding to them. I promise you that if these conversations were face to face they would be hugely different.

hahaha lol
guys acting tuff on the internet are the weakest of the weak in real life I guarantee you.

nothing would be different face to face trust me
you can return to your slumber now

reply to post by ModernAcademia


And what facts would you like to hear? Maybe you would like me to say that all military people are mindless brainwashed computers that will do anything they are told to do.

Maybe I should start citing all sorts reports on every conspiracy website out there on how 9/11 was designed to fight a war for the control of oil.

It is very difficult to NOT get emotional when your "facts" are found on factless sites.

I can personally tell you that we military will follow orders given to us, so long as, they are just and constitutional, moral, and have merit.

Yes I know what happened to those that are in the prisons. Yes, it MAY have been wrong to do.

Here are the "FACTS"

These 'people' hide in crowds of innocents.
Bomb there own women and children.
Hide in under the false pretences of Red Cross or Police. (violation of Geneva Convention BTW)
Our troops have NOT commited violation of the Geneva Conventions. (because those that are in Prison are not 'Lawful Combatants'

But oh yeah I forgot about your "facts"...

Every terrorists bomb ever used was planned and executed by the CIA FBI NWO whatever for US gains.... (yeah right!)

We are extorting a small country for our gains... (so has every other nation in history)

We had no right to be there... (Why not? We put him in power, we took him out)

We went there under the false pretense of WMD which were never found... (yes they were, yes they were out of date, it would have been cheap and quick to make them effective again.)

How is that for facts?

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

What kind of comment is this?

The kind I make to someone like "afrosamurai"

I listen to hip hop too, doesn't mean I listen to kill a cop songs.

I didn't ask what YOU listen to did I?

Nope.

Just because you sometimes flip the channel and see rap songs degrading women, talking about drugs and killing cops doesn't mean the majority of hip hop songs is like this.

I wouldn't know "homey", I don't spend my day watching cable like M'TV listening to music that uses only three chords and lyrics they can't sing they only recite

That was a very narrow-minded comment you made.

I love that man,, I love it when someone tells me I am "narrow minded" especially when they tell me that just after someone like YOU says something like this.:

That's just what elderly music label shareholders are forcing the artists to rap about in many instances.

You tell all those elderly people who employ all those poor rap wannabe's workin in the sweat shops for the man, that I said,,

"Word"

Try listening to some Lupe Fiasco, Killah Priest, Ras Kass, Nas, Zion I, Rakim, AZ and much more and then come back to me with that comment.

Sorry guy,, I'm a brooks n dunn kinda listener and the last time I heard anyone try to mix my taste in country music with taste in rap music, it sounded like crap music and had no taste at all

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
If you read the CIA's 911 commission report you will see that foreign occupation puts everyone in more danger, not less.

No it doesn't say that but if you can copy paste the exact quote, perhaps you would also try to put that in the context of unpopular occupations like the CIA was referring too.

No offense man but 95% of people who debate with me on this topic always come back with nothing more than an emotional response.
No facts, no logic just blind emotion!

And just what do you think your posts have been??

The alternative??

Isn't it way MORE offensive to fool people into thinking there's a threat, make them risk their lives killing many innocent people so that rich war-profiteers can get richer?

No I think it is more offensive that you blame all those who have to fight and die for those who were manipulated by the rich war profiteers

Isn't that more offensive and life-threatening?

I dunno, why don't you say this crap to one of the soldiers faces over there and see how that idea is workin for ya, then get back to me.

If you're still alive that is.

No, no flaming
I don't flame, but I do get flamed

Ya Think?

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Me wanting them to return to their families instead of risking their lives so that rich people can get richer is having no love for them?

All depends on who you're talking about, the rich getting richer, or the soldiers, and so far, all you've done is blame the soldiers

Originally posted by treemanx
I refuse to allow any more idiots to draw me into posting responses to their warped idea of the world, therefore this is my last one. I wont give credence to idiotic ideas by responding to them. I promise you that if these conversations were face to face they would be hugely different.

[hahaha lol
guys acting tuff on the internet are the weakest of the weak in real life I guarantee you. nothing would be different face to face trust me
you can return to your slumber now

Ill put my money on treemanx just the same

Originally posted by Afrosamurai
I say its race and called names for it. But... A white man tells them to torture children at Abu... And they follow orders. A black man tells them not to and they refuse to listen. So how is it not about race? And again he's provided the documents for every one to see but it isn't enough for you. You hate him because he's black.

Okay obviously you must be joking with us and getting a kick out of this because there is no way you are going to use that almost exact same wording of the same argument that many times, at least not if you are intelligent. You must just be trying to fuel the fire. But if not let me tell you cause you obviously have not gotten over this as 99% of American citizens have. "We are very very sorry for all the years of oppression, lets put it behind us and move forward. We already have we are just waiting for you to join us". And in case you haven't heard Obama was elected president. That means the race card doesn't apply any more, I will be willing to bet that at least 50% of the people that voted for him were white. I seem to remember some soldiers refusing to go to war with George Bush as well because they thought it was "illegal". But if a black man had started an "illegal" war they would have said "Yes sir". See how i did that there. I did the exact same thing you just did; and see how dumb it makes me sound. That is what you are doing, I am telling you this for your own good, I am not trying to attack you. When are you going to realize that by assuming we are being racists when we are not, you are being more racist than anyone. And race inst even the question at issue here. Yet you continue to bring it up every chance you get so I am officially apologizing to you on behalf of all white people. Now that that is out of the way please wizen up so we can discuss the actual issue at hand. If I remember correctly there were several inconsistencies with the BC that started this issue in the first place. Its not that he didnt go "door to door" for everyone. First off it was produced by and ANONYMOUS source that claimed to work for his administration not Obama. If you read this acticle from a political agnostic, who has an extensive background in forensic analysis, it will tell you why they are questioning it and even explain how some of the discrepancies are possible: atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com...
Now before you think about pulling the race card on this I am going to pull it first. "So you are going to discredit this post because I am white. I bet if someone named AfroSamurai2 posted it it would be fine!!"

Hey before you ask Obama for his long form birth certificate I would like to see bobby jindals! oh wait after that sesame street session we had with him nevermind, this guy in 2012 please oh please conservatives pleaaassee put him and Palin on the same ticket for 2012 I beg ya

[edit on 26-2-2009 by Southern Guardian]

When bush was waging his unconstitutional war these soldiers were nowhere to be seen... even after all these years of the lies following 2003 I bet these soldiers never gave a second thought bout bush. I guess during those times though if you voiced your opinion against the hands of Bush you were labelled a "anti american" or "anti-patriotic" by peers and etc.. and Im sure even the liberal soldiers themselves, the few of them in the army, however disagreeing with the president and his policies at that time, still carried out their duties, and served their nation as committed when they signed that contract. These soldiers will not get very far beyond the jail cell or a slap on the hand... and you know what... in about a month or so the "anti-liberal socialisms" league here would have probably forgotten about them and moved on as well... after all that "patriotic" bs I see being flung here by that side.

I do feel sorry for the soldiers. Confused... too much limbaugh... and I guess fighting in iraq, however unconstitutional the war is or what not... they really felt they had a duty, that these iraqis were involved somehow... that even if there were no WMDs these soldiers were called "patriotic" and what not by conservative america... who in reality cared little about their wellbeing and more about putting on a show to the rest of the world. But these soldiers still believe in something in iraq, however non-existent, and are evidently bitter and as said confused especially following the elections....

...its like nam... those soldiers returning to a crowd that did not appreciate em. I mean these folks still believed there was a reason to be in nam' and frowned upon the leftist hippies for protesting against what they thought they were doing... fightin for freedom.

To further understand these soldiers and why they did this, however hypocritical or partisan these stunts appear... is to understand the mind of a solider... a conservative soldier at that.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
When bush was waging his unconstitutional war these soldiers were nowhere to be seen... even after all these years of the lies following 2003 I bet these soldiers never gave a second thought bout bush. I guess during those times though if you voiced your opinion against the hands of Bush you were labelled a "anti american" or "anti-patriotic" by peers and etc.. and Im sure even the liberal soldiers themselves, the few of them in the army, however disagreeing with the president and his policies at that time, still carried out their duties, and served their nation as committed when they signed that contract. These soldiers will not get very far beyond the jail cell or a slap on the hand... and you know what... in about a month or so the "anti-liberal socialisms" league here would have probably forgotten about them and moved on as well... after all that "patriotic" bs I see being flung here by that side.

I do feel sorry for the soldiers. Confused... too much limbaugh... and I guess fighting in iraq, however unconstitutional the war is or what not... they really felt they had a duty, that these iraqis were involved somehow... that even if there were no WMDs these soldiers were called "patriotic" and what not by conservative america... who in reality cared little about their wellbeing and more about putting on a show to the rest of the world. But these soldiers still believe in something in iraq, however non-existent, and are evidently bitter and as said confused especially following the elections....

...its like nam... those soldiers returning to a crowd that did not appreciate em. I mean these folks still believed there was a reason to be in nam' and frowned upon the leftist hippies for protesting against what they thought they were doing... fightin for freedom.

To further understand these soldiers and why they did this, however hypocritical or partisan these stunts appear... is to understand the mind of a solider... a conservative soldier at that.

what is your definition of unconstitutional? because last time i looked, congress approved.

reply to post by Swatman


Last time I looked, the intelligence regarding Iraq were purposefully flawed, the last time I looked only a declaration of war against us would be reason enough for us to attack in the constitution, the last time I looked there were no WMDs and such, the center piece for going there that simple did not exist, should have been reason for mr Bush himself not to invade or to stop in his tracks.. the last time I looked we had an economy in such a mess, meanwhile we've spent over $600 billion on that war, over $200 million a day, a war that has no reason, a war waged over false pretenses, which is against the constitution.

Your going on about some birth certificate conspiracy that bears little to nothing other than "we just dont believe it" and yet we have a war and the prior administration already having committed an unconstitutional act, along with other unconstitutional acts.. and here you are using this as an excuse to spread the birth certificate conspiracy around. Hypocrisy .

reply to post by Swatman


We had a real chance to protect the very constitution the founding fathers set for these United states, we had 8years to raise the constitution and call foul... I did so, afew others did, but you folks were nowhere to be seen... but appears the constitution is irrelevant to you fellas when it does not cross ideological lines.

Ideology first, country second swat. An unconstitutional war where we have lost over 4000 patriotic lives, 100's billions lost, millions lost a day a day in unconstitutional war, it has been such for years now, and yet you folks spend 99% of your time shootin at some conspiracy that holds little more than talk.

[edit on 26-2-2009 by Southern Guardian]

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
reply to post by Swatman

 

We had a real chance to protect the very constitution the founding fathers set for these United states, we had 8years to raise the constitution and call foul... I did so, afew others did, but you folks were nowhere to be seen... but appears the constitution is irrelevant to you fellas when it does not cross ideological lines.

Ideology first, country second swat. An unconstitutional war where we have lost over 4000 patriotic lives, 100's billions lost, millions lost a day a day in unconstitutional war, it has been such for years now, and yet you folks spend 99% of your time shootin at some conspiracy that holds little more than talk.

[edit on 26-2-2009 by Southern Guardian]

i didnt say i support the war. im telling you that congress voted for it both republican and democrat.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
reply to post by Swatman

 

We had a real chance to protect the very constitution the founding fathers set for these United states, we had 8years to raise the constitution and call foul... I did so, afew others did, but you folks were nowhere to be seen... but appears the constitution is irrelevant to you fellas when it does not cross ideological lines.

Ideology first, country second swat. An unconstitutional war where we have lost over 4000 patriotic lives, 100's billions lost, millions lost a day a day in unconstitutional war, it has been such for years now, and yet you folks spend 99% of your time shootin at some conspiracy that holds little more than talk.

[edit on 26-2-2009 by Southern Guardian]

It is pretty evident you have never served...

Or did your homework either...

Congress violated the "separation of powers" under the Constitution when they gave the war powers decision for Iraq to Bush. It was done in HJR 114, "Authorization For The Use Of Military Force Against Iraq", 2nd session, 107th Congress. Link here: hnn.us...

So how was this illegal? or Unconstitutional?? Congress just gave up their system of checks and balances by allowing it to happen. Oh yeah BTW who approved all the funding... Congress.

Yeah its all bush and his was spending... millions lost a day. How about Obama there is BILLIONS lost a day. He is already planning TRILLIONS in debt the first year. What was it again 6 Trillion??

You spout your 4000 innocent patriotic lives lost in iraq BS. Yet in the next breath you talk about how we are mindless right wing conservative the military members are...

Originally posted by Swatman

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
reply to post by Swatman

 

We had a real chance to protect the very constitution the founding fathers set for these United states, we had 8years to raise the constitution and call foul... I did so, afew others did, but you folks were nowhere to be seen... but appears the constitution is irrelevant to you fellas when it does not cross ideological lines.

Ideology first, country second swat. An unconstitutional war where we have lost over 4000 patriotic lives, 100's billions lost, millions lost a day a day in unconstitutional war, it has been such for years now, and yet you folks spend 99% of your time shootin at some conspiracy that holds little more than talk.

[edit on 26-2-2009 by Southern Guardian]

i didnt say i support the war. im telling you that congress voted for it both republican and democrat.

Congress was majority republican at the time. During that time the conservatives had all the majority they wanted. The public was mislead as such were the politicians. Bush exploited a time of anger and non-understanding with the middle east. To make the excuse that dems voted for a war promoted by republicans themselves, then ignore the circumstances, or ignore my prior post regarding the fact we had actual unconstitutional acts during that time and none of yall didnt bother to stand up a respect the constitution that time says a plenty about this BC conspiracy and the folks pushing it.

[edit on 27-2-2009 by Southern Guardian]

Originally posted by Bushi
You spout your 4000 innocent patriotic lives lost in iraq BS. Yet in the next breath you talk about how we are mindless right wing conservative the military members are...

Typical... now your playing the "anti-troop card". I never called all patriotic military men mindless, although I made it clear that there are some who feel the iraq war is justified and are angered at the election outcome.

Why dont you cut the "you hate the troops" garbage... its an outdated excuse to bring down those folks like myself who never supported the war. Why dont you stop lying about what I said, be a man and counter my post regarding this "all talk" conspiracy where yall constantly reference the constitution yet an administration that was unconstitutional you folks never stood up. Why dont you explain to me that.

[edit on 27-2-2009 by Southern Guardian]

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
When bush was waging his unconstitutional war these soldiers were nowhere to be seen... even after all these years of the lies following 2003 I bet these soldiers never gave a second thought bout bush. I guess during those times though if you voiced your opinion against the hands of Bush you were labelled a "anti american" or "anti-patriotic" by peers and etc.. and Im sure even the liberal soldiers themselves, the few of them in the army, however disagreeing with the president and his policies at that time, still carried out their duties, and served their nation as committed when they signed that contract. These soldiers will not get very far beyond the jail cell or a slap on the hand... and you know what... in about a month or so the "anti-liberal socialisms" league here would have probably forgotten about them and moved on as well... after all that "patriotic" bs I see being flung here by that side.

I do feel sorry for the soldiers. Confused... too much limbaugh... and I guess fighting in iraq, however unconstitutional the war is or what not... they really felt they had a duty, that these iraqis were involved somehow... that even if there were no WMDs these soldiers were called "patriotic" and what not by conservative america... who in reality cared little about their wellbeing and more about putting on a show to the rest of the world. But these soldiers still believe in something in iraq, however non-existent, and are evidently bitter and as said confused especially following the elections....

...its like nam... those soldiers returning to a crowd that did not appreciate em. I mean these folks still believed there was a reason to be in nam' and frowned upon the leftist hippies for protesting against what they thought they were doing... fightin for freedom.

To further understand these soldiers and why they did this, however hypocritical or partisan these stunts appear... is to understand the mind of a solider... a conservative soldier at that.

AGAIN I ask how was it Unconstitutional!?!?!?!? Congress gave the authorization!

You say I am using an anti troop card after this?

I firmly told my supervisor that we did not need to go to a war with Iraq. I followed my duty and utilized the chain of command as I was supposed to do. How many times have you deployed, stood out in a 143 degree temperatures and handed out soccer balls to the little kids?

Or maybe you dont seem to care about the soldier who will wake up with nightmares for the rest of her life because an IRAQI threw a little girl in front of the semi the soldier was driving.

Believe me, we have made the protests according to the LAW that we are able to do.

What this officer is doing violates the commitment he signed up for. Obama WAS appointed. Its done and over with, now this officer MUST BY LAW follow his orders. At the very least he will lose his comission for this. Have to repay any debt to the military, and probably recieve a dishonorable due to violation of contracts.

In addition, I have yet to ever see a direct order come across my officer in charges desk from the President of the United States. This is more then likely a ploy tactic that the individual is using to protest the fact Obama is in office. But that is his right to do... just not while he is in the military.

So dont sit here and think we just blindly follow someone's direction without making sure why...

Remember the soldier I told you about.... if she would have stopped, she would have killed several hundred people, her only choice was to keep driving. You try and live in a world where you have to make decisions like that.

Originally posted by Bushi
It is pretty evident you have never served...
Or did your homework either...

Congress violated the "separation of powers" under the Constitution when they gave the war powers decision for Iraq to Bush. It was done in HJR 114, "Authorization For The Use Of Military Force Against Iraq", 2nd session, 107th Congress. Link here: hnn.us...

So how was this illegal? or Unconstitutional?? Congress just gave up their system of checks and balances by allowing it to happen. Oh yeah BTW who approved all the funding... Congress.

Actually... in the Authorization For The Use Of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution it is clear stated that the Resolution does not supersede the War Powers Resolution:

(c) WAR POWERS RESOLUTION REQUIREMENTS-

(1) SPECIFIC STATUTORY AUTHORIZATION- Consistent with section 8(a)(1) of the War Powers Resolution, the Congress declares that this section is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of section 5(b) of the War Powers Resolution.

(2) APPLICABILITY OF OTHER REQUIREMENTS- Nothing in this resolution supersedes any requirement of the War Powers Resolution.

Looking at section 5(b) of the War Powers Resolution:

(b) Within sixty calendar days after a report is submitted or is required to be submitted pursuant to section 4(a)(1), whichever is earlier, the President shall terminate any use of United States Armed Forces with respect to which such report was submitted (or required to be submitted), unless the Congress (1) has declared war or has enacted a specific authorization for such use of United States Armed Forces, (2) has extended by law such sixty-day period, or (3) is physically unable to meet as a result of an armed attack upon the United States.

It is clear that this what the Iraq Resolution Sec. 3(c)(1) is talking about - the enactment of a specific authorization.

Congress didn't violate the separation of powers, this situation was contemplated in the War Powers Resolution.

Furthermore, Congress didn't "gave up their system of checks and balances", the Resolution declares that the President and whatever military action he decides to take still has to comply with the War Powers Resolution, saying that "Nothing in this resolution supersedes any requirement of the War Powers Resolution".

Personally I do not agree with Congress giving him the authorization in the first place, but Congress didn't violate anything. Whether the President did, is another matter, because while Congress gave him an authorization to use the Armed Forces, that authorization was explicitly bound to the War Powers Resolution.

The War Powers Resolution establishes requirements for the President to follow, not only in terms of reporting to Congress, but also in how he can use the Armed Forces.

For example, looking at Secion 8 (INTERPRETATION OF JOINT RESOLUTION) of the War Powers Resolution:

(c) For purposes of this joint resolution, the term "introduction of United States Armed Forces" includes the assignment of member of such armed forces to command, coordinate, participate in the movement of, or accompany the regular or irregular military forces of any foreign country or government when such military forces are engaged, or there exists an imminent threat that such forces will become engaged, in hostilities.

The United States didn't command/coordinate/participate or accompany any regular or irregular military forces of any foreign country, and no such threat was imminent within Iraq.

The President ordered an invasion of a country and attack of said country's military and civilian structure. He had to declare war, which he never did.

Moreover,

(d) Nothing in this joint resolution--
(1) is intended to alter the constitutional authority of the Congress or of the President, or the provision of existing treaties

The War Powers Resolution doesn't give the President power to re-interpret or ignore existing treaties.


While I personally believe that Congress was foolish in giving President Bush authorization, one also has to remember how President Bush and his Administration framed a supposedly threat from Iraq - either by negligence or deception, they painted a false picture of that threat to the American people and Congress.

In any case, from my understanding I think it's clear the President violated the War Powers Resolution. In light of that I don't see how any subsequent actions (that resulted among other things in the suspension of Habeaus Corpus, re-interpretation or ignoring the Geneva Conventions) can be legally justified.