2nd U.S. soldier in Iraq challenges eligibility

So, two soldiers are rebelling against their new CIC? out of, what? one million? How many deserted when Bush was in power?

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
But you know what, you can however put "some" blame on the U.S. military for being overtaxed.

The military doesn't tax anyone, Congress does.

you can also put "some" blame on the u.s. military for lack of freedoms.

Once again, Congress.

No they are over there depleting freedoms.
Foreign occupation causes blowback
blowback shows itself in the form of terroism
terroism is used as an excuse for the FISA bill and patrioc act to get approved.

Please explain all the terrorism prior to the wars. If it's all the result of blowback, then there shouldn't have been any terrorism to begin with. Also please explain how the removal of a dictator depleted anyone's freedoms aside from said dictator.

At the end of the day blind patriotism will be your own destruction, as you sit back and allow the U.S. govt to fight wars that is bankrupting your country and you scream "support our troops".

The troops didn't send us to war. The troops didn't bankrupt the country.

Why can't support our troops mean allowing them to come back home to their families instead of risking their lives so rich people can get richer?

You'll be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn't want them all home. Unfortunately, it's not going to happen for awhile. So what sense does it make to turn our backs on them when it's the government that has caused our problems?

They refuse to fight now? Only took them a few years, thousands of innocent lives, what was left of a countries infastructure and billions of dollars.

Thank god an issue of such incredible importance finally poked out its head.

...

reply to post by Jenna


Let me take a really unpopular position.

You can't sit there and pass the blame away from the military. You just can't.

Once they learned they were fighting a bogus war, sold on bogus ideas and sustained to keep those who lied -er, fought- so hard for it to happen in the first place, they should have then refused to fight.

And to those who signed up for duty after the lies around Iraq became clear to even the blindest among us...I have a hard time supporting them one damn bit. As far as I am concerned, they choose to go and to kill.

There is no supporting that.

They weren't send there in defense of their country and they know it. I respect those troops just like I support black water: not at all.

Go on and lynch me...get me before work if you could.

[edit on 2/26/0909 by spines]

I say its race and called names for it. But... A white man tells them to torture children at Abu... And they follow orders. A black man tells them not to and they refuse to listen. So how is it not about race? And again he's provided the documents for every one to see but it isn't enough for you. You hate him because he's black.

reply to post by spines


On the contrary, you'll find your position is quite popular here. And I understand what you are saying, but the fact is the military isn't the cause of any of it. They don't get to pick and choose when or where they are going to war. They didn't choose Iraq.

By the time we learned that there were no WMD's to be found, it was too late. In my opinion it would have been far worse to just pull out and leave Iraq in ruin than to stick around and help them get their country going again. People forget that we haven't been there indiscriminately blowing up towns and innocent civilians, we've been trying to help them rebuild.

Very few people join the military for the chance to go and kill people, if any. Some join for financial reasons or to get their college paid for. Some join for the job training the military provides in everything from nursing, to management, to mechanics, to lawyers. There are many many reasons people join the military, and most of them have nothing to do with blowing things up and/or killing people. There are also many who have been stop-lossed and had no choice on whether or not they were discharged at the end of their contract.

To lump everyone into a group and say they are all in it to kill people just isn't realistic. Nor is it fair to any of them.

No lynching here. I guess you'll be making it to work after all.

Originally posted by Afrosamurai
I say its race and called names for it. But... A white man tells them to torture children at Abu... And they follow orders. A black man tells them not to and they refuse to listen. So how is it not about race? And again he's provided the documents for every one to see but it isn't enough for you. You hate him because he's black.

my god everyone!!! HES BLACK!!! i mean HES BACK!!!!














OH CRAP. sorry I did not mean to use a monkey as our president, OH WAIT, sorry its George Bush, all monkey comments are welcome then because he isnt black or a democrat.

Originally posted by spines
reply to post by Jenna

 

Go on and lynch me...get me before work if you could.

[edit on 2/26/0909 by spines]

thats racist. im telling al sharpton on you.

Originally posted by xxpigxx
A Certificate of Live Birth was shown . . . not a Birth Certificate. There is a difference . . . Google it.

The difference is that one is known as a short form, and the other is a long form. What Obama presented was a Certification of Live Birth, the short form.

Short forms, known sometimes as computer certifications, are not universally available, but are cheaper than photocopies and much more easily accessible. Limited information is taken from the original birth record (the long form) and stored in a database that can be accessed quickly when birth certificates are needed in a short amount of time. Whereas the long form is a copy of the actual birth certificate, a short form is a document that certifies the existence of such certificate, and is usually titled a "Certification of Birth" or "Certificate of Live Birth". The short form typically includes the child's name, date of birth, sex, and place of birth, although some also include the names of the child's parents. When the certification does include the names of the parents, it can be used in lieu of a long form birth certificate in almost all circumstances. source

This is what the State Department asks for for proof of citizenship:

1. PROOF OF U.S. CITIZENSHIP

a. APPLICANTS BORN IN THE UNITED STATES: Submit a previous U.S. passport or certified birth certificate. A birth certificate must include your full name, the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records.

Obama's certificate includes all of this as seen here. It also includes "the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records" as seen here.


I'd like to know where this idea that the short form doesn't include accurate or the necessary information comes from, because it's completely bogus.

Why does the race card come out?

why? It seems that these people that do this are very prejudice themselves. the tone is very hateful. It also perpetuates the division racists crave and feed on. I think in most cases it is a made up excuse of victimization, and pulls attention from the problem at hand.

Why did no one pull the race card for Clarence Thomas or Condoleezza Rice????? Heck, I don't even remember the African American community standing up and being proud of them..................why?

Now I am getting off subject............See what the race card does!?!?

reply to post by Jenna


All the argument in the world isn't saying anything about now.

If you joined up AFTER March, 2003 and fight or continue to fight, then you, as a soldier, have no support from me and hopefully many others.

This is even more frustrating because they may not choose where they go...but they aren't blind. They know what is going on and choose to continue to fight anyway.

Just say NO, we will not go out and kill for you today. NO we will not put ourselves in a position where we or our buddies can get killed.

The only recourse is a court marshall and jail time...let's see them jail every soldier. Let's see them continue to fight a war without their ranks of poor and brainwashed cannon fodder.

The fact that they stop fighting for this and not because of every other legitimate reason to stop fighting is just that much more pathetic.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent

Yet no body challenged George W Bush when the moron pushed through all his BS it will take our country and it's people decades to undo

What was stopping YOU ofHumandeficate!

See,, Unlike YOU, we noticed Bush spent a lot of money also but unlike YOU who bitches about no one stopping Bush while your democrats could have impeached his ass back in 2006 like Pelosi suggested but as soon as they got swept in, they sat on their do nothing BUTTS!

JUST LIKE THE REPUBLICANS!

So rather than do like YOU are and wait till its too late and then Bitch about no one challenging Obama, WE see him spending more money his first two months in office than all the money bush spent his entire first term and beyond!

So we are going to do OUR complaining NOW before we look like you do complaining about bush when it's already too late

Obama is the poor smuck left to clean up the mess that the Republicans (who are pro Corporate America / elite rich)

Hey Chick! Obama isn't cleaning up Jack Squat!

American Taxpayers are!

Nobody put a Gun to his head, He not only knew what he was getting into, HE WAS A MAJOR PLAYER IN CREATING IT! IT WAS OBAMA THAT kept any regulation being proposed back in 2005 from keeping Obama's finance manager, who was then managing Freddie and Fannie from cooking the books to the tune of 6.9 Billion dollars! It was The SAME Franklin Raines who allocated over $111,000 grand in campaign contributions where Obama would owe the MOST FAVORS to who again??

The same IDIOTS we are now having to throw Billions more at while they bone up on bonus's and billiards at the beverly club!

Don't give me this crap about Bush to justify an even BIGGER BIMBO'S BOONDOGGLE. While you are whining about how many people could have eaten for a week when this chump Obama, spends $180 MILLION on his damn inaugral Luau shin dig!

You are talking about an idiot who spent over $850 million dollars to buy a job that only pay's $250,000 a year and he is going to create new jobs???

C'mon Ofhuman, HELP ME WITH THE MATH!

You know the administration that has shamed us in front of the rest of the planet.

The rest of the planet has only been there for us when,,, gee,, ya know,, I can't remember,, so ta hell with the rest of them. I care about Americans and ONLY Americans because I am sick and tired of seeing everyone from a country we have handed theirs back to them on a platter after we have spilled our own blood dying for the one they live in now. You know, France, Poland, Holland, The Philippines, latvia, bosnia, kuwait, etc, etc, et-tedious, cetera.


While you and your comrade southern gulag complain and rant and whine about the money Bush cost us you miss the monumental hypocrisy that is your own for not seeing Obama fix the world the same way the last idiot in the white house did. BY THROWING MONEY AT IT!

LOTS OF IT! BUNDLES OF IT! BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF IT, TILL IT BECAME TRILLIONS OF IT TONS OF IT AND NOW,,,


NOW those that keep getting it keep coming back again asking for what??


MORE!!!

They are going to keep asking for more and and ya know why

Because we still have some LEFT!

They will Keep asking for more until all we have left is maybe a couple bucks and some change we can all believe in!

After that Obama will ask again and take and take AND TAKE,,
until all you can say when they ask for more is,,

"all I got is a pot to pee in"

and ya know what Obama will say then??

He'll say: "well,,,,,,

gimme that"

















[edit on 26-2-2009 by Aermacchi]

Well if they won't do their job I say put them on trial for mutiny. (if'in it were me in charge id keel haul these two.)

The issue of Obama's birth certificate is an old worn out story. Time to get over the fact that this man won the presidency. He was born in Hawaii which amazingly enough is a state of the United States. He wasn't born in Africa.

Originally posted by Afrosamurai
I say its race and called names for it. But... A white man tells them to torture children at Abu... And they follow orders. A black man tells them not to and they refuse to listen. So how is it not about race? And again he's provided the documents for every one to see but it isn't enough for you. You hate him because he's black.

Ok Afro,, you're a mind reader and you got your mind made up so I don't want confuse you with the facts.

Yeah I hate Obama because he is,, ??

what race did you say he was again?

Oh before you tell me,, that,, and since you is such a rat KoO hip hop wanna killacop rap wannabe, tell me afrosheen,, can you smell my race or do you automatically assume I am white just because I am "dissin obamabitch"??

I see you doin that a lot and I just wonderin what kind o racist YOU are! thinking its only white folk who go hatin on obama!

You Hypocrite how racist of you

Originally posted by Jenna
The military doesn't tax anyone, Congress does.

Dude your thought process is so one-dimensional
Congress has proven to be useless and are to blame of course
but who's doing the actual going abroad?

Time to start looking at the bigger picture, because right now you aren't at all

you can also put "some" blame on the u.s. military for lack of freedoms.

Once again, Congress.

Originally posted by Jenna

Please explain all the terrorism prior to the wars. If it's all the result of blowback, then there shouldn't have been any terrorism to begin with. Also please explain how the removal of a dictator depleted anyone's freedoms aside from said dictator.

I believe I remember a few people from the CIA saying terroism as we know it today visibly started once the U.S. installed the Shah of Iran.

Originally posted by Jenna
The troops didn't send us to war. The troops didn't bankrupt the country.

Again look at the bigger picture.
There wouldn't be any corporate warfare if it wasn't for the army.
no army going abroad = no war

Originally posted by Jenna
You'll be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn't want them all home. Unfortunately, it's not going to happen for awhile. So what sense does it make to turn our backs on them when it's the government that has caused our problems?

Maybe my way of thinking isn't turning our backs on them.
Maybe your way of thinking is prolonging their agony.

Honestly man, i'm sure your a good person at heart and all that
But you need to start looking at the bigger picture

Originally posted by Aermacchi
Oh before you tell me,, that,, and since you is such a rat KoO hip hop wanna killacop rap wannabe, tell me afrosheen,, can you smell my race or do you automatically assume I am white just because I am "dissin obamabitch"??

What kind of comment is this?
what's this kill a cop rap wannabee comment?

I listen to hip hop too, doesn't mean I listen to kill a cop songs.
Let me tell you, you only know what you barely see.
Just because you sometimes flip the channel and see rap songs degrading women, talking about drugs and killing cops doesn't mean the majority of hip hop songs is like this. That's just what elderly music label shareholders are forcing the artists to rap about in many instances.

That was a very narrow-minded comment you made.

Try listening to some Lupe Fiasco, Killah Priest, Ras Kass, Nas, Zion I, Rakim, AZ and much more and then come back to me with that comment.

There's a whole lot of good talent hip hop artists that have good decent lyrical messages in their songs.

WOW and I will say it again WOW!!!!!!!!

First off, as for the ACTUAL topic. His birth certificate: It is way to late in the game now to change the fact that he is President. Seriously, it would be a major blow to Americans in the international community if the person that WE elected was thrown out of office over something that should have been looked into before.

Now, for everyone out there who is saying that soldiers will not listen because he is Black. (this will cause serious flames) President Obama is not black, he is biracial, both white and black. I am sure, as you can do with a majority of americans, if you were to review his entire heritage it would break down even more then biracial. Probly more like multiracial. So am I and the person next to me and so on and so forth. GET OVER YOU WHITE/BLACK PREJUDICE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now, for those who are against the men and women of our country who decided to put their life on hold to defend yours, especially the total BS comment of a post further up that is against those who joined after 2003. As a former member of the Military it is very insulting to hear your hateful opinions of us. Your insults not only hurt me and mine. Your insults destroy the honor of those that have DIED over the course of history of this country!! You are taking the actions of a few and labeling the whole!! Most people in the military WILL tell you that they will follow the orders of the officers appointed over them, and that is precisely what they will do. Yes you do have a few that will raise a BS flag when they think they see BS. But that is there problem. The military will handle them accordingly. Now if it was not for an ALL VOLUNTEER military how would we have handled the wars??? I will tell you how A NON VOLUNTEER MILITARY!!!!!!! So you cant protest a war by having no one join the military, cause then you will be scooped up. Then you will have a TON of people in the military doing atrocities WORSE then what happened at these prison camps.

So for all you out there that want to just start flaming on what I have said, I welcome the to do so. It is your RIGHT to do so, the very RIGHT that young americans have given their LIVES to protect.

reply to post by spines


You are entitled to that opinion. But as I said, to lump everyone together in the same group isn't reasonable.

My hat is off to the two soldiers. It's a perfectly justifiable reason to stand up and say No, no more. I want out.

We need a few hundred more to do the same, and then half the military will do it. There probably are many more soldiers we don't know about.

Pat Tillman, the football player making $3 million a year, who quit to go fight in Iraq (Afghanistan? can't remember) because he believed in the cause, that Bin Laden was going to get us, the Muslims were out to blow up our country, fell for the 9/11 scam. When he was there awhile he realized it was all lies, and when his superiors found out his real feelings in his letters and communications to home, they had him murdered.

So I feel real bad for the soldiers who are trapped, drafted for repeat tours, who want desperately to get out but can't.

I hate what our government has done to the police and military, how they corrupt everything they touch.

I should say the Zionists -- who have corrupted our government and everything else they touch, which they own everything, sold their souls to Satan hundreds of years ago, are all related, intermarrying, and are mobilizing their massive technology and the military industrial complex against the people of the world.

Our only hope is that the police and military stand up and resist, as Gen. Fox Fallon did and was able to avert a nuclear attack on Iran. We probably cannot imagine the conflict, the death and suffering going on in themilitary as the good people who love justice, the ones truly brave and selfless, risk their lives, lose their lives to stand against the evil, the Satanists who are now running the military.

May God be with them.

Still waiting for the thread on the 3rd soldier involved in the case. Do we have a running clock yet?