The SUSPENSION of illicit drugs/mind altering substance topics on ATS (The experiment failed)

Originally posted by EyesII
Pathetic..... Simply pathetic!

All of this gyration simply because of Sponsorship and the Owners hopes of making this site into something BIG.

What is the site going to do when Marijuana is finally reduced to either being federally legalized, or treated the same as any prescription pain-killer?

At that point it will be the “hottest” topic around. Will ATS just ignore that topic?

I am completely against the censorship of anyone on this, or any other site. I am all for free speech, and all the freedoms that are afforded Americans under the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and any other Amendments that provide us with more freedoms.

Being on this site means that we give up ALL rights at the Front Door, all protections afforded to us in public are gone here. I don't like that one bit.

In essence, we are NOT free here.

Deplorable!

-EyesII

Umm, OK. This site isn't big... its very large indeed and with that comes the problem of who is it that makes sure you don't get yourselves in the S**t?

Don't you see that free speech and its liability is exactly the problem?.

ATS is about free speech.

But there is a difference between free speech and blatant stupidity.

If you are on a public forum and you start to advocate your own personal use of an illegal whatever (with your admissible in court evidence) what do the staff do when they receive a court order demanding the disclosure of your identity?

Do they betray you and drop you into the lap of the law?

Who would you blame then?

Once you speak here, like it or not, Simon, Bill, Mark and co are effectively representing you to the rest of the world with everything that implies including its legal liability.

You think your anonymous?
Well.... You ain't.

In some things they cannot cover your ass so the best thing they can do is make sure you don't dangle yourself in front of the judge in the first place...

Originally posted by EyesII
All of this gyration simply because of Sponsorship and the Owners hopes of making this site into something BIG.

Someone's not taking the time to read the update links in the opening post of this thread... and perhaps is just influenced by the thread title.

I posted a thread on this subject discussing mj, and it was sent super top secret, or something like that, and then eliminated. I did not understand why until now. I think the rules posted by the site owners make complete sense, and I think I get it.

We can discuss drug issues, we can talk about the implications of the drug war and its effects on society, I believe we can even debate whether or not drugs should be legalized, but we can NOT talk about any personal drug use, involvement with drug use, or celebration of drug use.

I hope I have this right.

reply to post by poet1b


As of right now, NO discussion of any type.

The committee is working now to hopefully rectify that situation.

Having read Skeptics review of the problem and knowing a little bit about SEO and how forums work, I would like to make a suggestion (dont know if its been posted as there are 100+ pages).

Why not create a separate forum for all things drug related, news, conspiracies, industrial uses, etc. But make the forum closed off from search engines and outside visitors. Sort of like a secret forum that is accessible to any member who validates their age, but that cant be crawled by any spiders or such. This will help alleviate worries about blacklists and new members coming just for the drug talk. I can help in providing guidance on how to close a section of the site off from spiders and other methods used by search engines.

Then institute a zero tolerance policy for ANY drug talk or topics outside of this one forum.

reply to post by Desolate Cancer


We have gotten that suggestion and a lot of members seem to be in favor of that.

It is one of the things we are discussing.

I just wanted to publicly state that after trying to understand the policy about no personal drug use discussions, and then seeing current events/conspiracy threads about changes in DEA policy deleted, that I have decided to cease my contributions in ATS discussions. If you (owner(s?) and some mods) can't see the drug war is rife with conspiracy and corruption and don't think that is worthy of discussion then the heck with it. I really like the slogan "deny ignorance" and I base my decision to leave upon ATS behavior that runs contrary to that slogan.

It's a big internet. I will undoubtedly see some of you elsewhere.

It would be a shame if this was deleted but its your board so sorry for wasting your time.

reply to post by stikkinikki


Hi s,
We are currently in the process of attempting to find common ground on this issue and we are making progress. Will you please give us a chance to succeed before making a final decision?

reply to post by skeptic1


Ok, after looking at another u2u, after making my post, I see that I was wrong, from now on no discussion of drugs. I can live with that, but I think stikkinikki has a point, the drug wars are a considerable part of the general conspiracy to eliminate rights. I honestly think the policy I at first believed to be in force, as I posted in my previous post here, is a better idea. It seems like an easily enforceable policy.

Hey, I appreciate the site, and this democratic way of creating policy. You guys are great, even when I disagree with you.

Thanks,

Poet1b

Just---wow.
"Deny Ignorance"? I don't think I have ever posted in the now banned topics, but my question is--what next?
Infiltrating government areas can be construed as illegal, as can discussing uncounted conspiracy theories, alternative medicine, collusion, corruption, and political intrigue. Very many topics and posts can be construed as libelous, lies and hate speech, depending on who reads them. How long before some of these get banned as offensive to someone or other?
I had hoped that ATS would never fall into the "PC" trap and have to censor to maintain viability, but as the Big Boss says---there are many other places to discuss such topics.
I have no horse in this race, being just a member, but I would postulate that the vision of "UGC"--user generated content---has now started down the slippery slope of "MGC"---managed generated content.
I don't own the place, so have no say in how it is managed, but do intend to keep reading and posting on those topics I am interested in until such time as they become verboten also.

My apologies for being somewhat off-topic, but it's something I feel I need to say and this is where I think it belongs. If not, and I get tagged, no hard feelings.

It's unfortunate that some people are taking this as a point for their departure from ATS. Honestly, I'm not sure everyone is thinking this through from both sides of the argument. And so much we don't understand in life is, in my opinion, a matter of perspective. But that is ultimately their choice.

What I think bothers me most of all is the lack of consideration. What was a standing decision by the owners to eradicate all talk of drugs in any context was then decided to be possibly reconsidered based on the voices of the membership.

I don't think anyone needs to be reminded that internet message boards are not democracies. In fact they are quite often dictatorships with a rather fascist slant. In this case, at this site, the members spoke up and are being heard.

Whatever the outcome, that deserves applause.

So my thanks to the owners, operators and staff, as well as those on the DISC committee. Whatever any particular individual thinks of the voting process, I for one am aware of all the members by their posts. I didn't vote myself, yet I find no reason to complain. All of them demonstrate qualities I would choose in a representative of this nature and to disparage them is frankly sour grapes.

If any think this is all useless kissing up, I submit that I'm appreciative. I've received what I would consider more than my fair share of praise from mods and members alike. To me there's nothing wrong with returning the consideration when I feel it's warranted. Hopefully more will feel the same.

I personally find ATS to be more important than any single issue.

Thanks,
Traveler in the Dark

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Might I suggest amending this thread's title to reflect the efforts now underway in connection to resolving the problem?





[edit on 28-2-2009 by loam]

Originally posted by poet1b


We can discuss drug issues, we can talk about the implications of the drug war and its effects on society, I believe we can even debate whether or not drugs should be legalized, but we can NOT talk about any personal drug use, involvement with drug use, or celebration of drug use.

I hope I have this right.

Wrong. We can't discuss anything that has to do with said topics.

Hence the unrest among members. We can't even discuss honest to goodness conspiracies when it comes to this subject.

Let me give you an example of zero tolerance.

My daughter was in third grade and took a pair of toenail clippers to school, the kind with a fingernail file built in, she took out the clippers on the playground to clean her fingernails and was suspended for three days.

UNDERSTAND???

edit to add:

The zero tolerance was about WEAPONS in school.

[edit on 28-2-2009 by interestedalways]

Originally posted by loam
reply to post by SkepticOverlord

 

Might I suggest amending this thread's title to reflect the efforts now underway in connection to resolving the problem?
[edit on 28-2-2009 by loam]

I simply agree, many are just posting, without reading the updates. Many are confused, due to not reading any of the updates.

[edit on 28-2-2009 by darcon]

Originally posted by darcon

Originally posted by loam
reply to post by SkepticOverlord

 

Might I suggest amending this thread's title to reflect the efforts now underway in connection to resolving the problem?
[edit on 28-2-2009 by loam]

I simply agree, many are just posting, without reading the updates. Many simple are confused.

So.............the rest of us are confused, while you, my dear...........See clearly???

Don't fall into the ego trap.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
possibility exists that exuberant system admins at schools, libraries, and businesses may opt to restrict our entire domain based on data from filtered pages.

Oh wow, we wouldn't want the kids to learn. I get you, preserving the status quo and the growth of ATS is paramount, eh?

Invasion of the Stoner Thread Snatchers:


thinly-vieled attempts to inject druggie culture into ATS discussion.

screw with ATS by spamming drug topics.

stoner replies are ruining what should be a good thread. The analogy I used previously in this thread is apt: Drug-related topics, of any kind, are like a bright porch light that attracts the wrong kind of moths to fly about and irritate us... they're impossible to kill as more will come... they fly about and pester everyone... it's impossible to enjoy the porch... they ruin the fun everyone is having on the porch... and the only sure solution is to turn off the light.

How can you have a forum full of humans, who are mostly on medicine, and tell them they can discuss personal experiences of demons, but not "spirits"? Beer is a spirit, and I can discuss that or Satan coming into my body, but not the spirit of cannabis, is that right? Spirits and their entrance into the body is acceptable ATS material, but not "illicit drugs"?

Thousands of posts on Afganistan but we can't discuss the reality (heroin) of it all because some junkie might also get on the thread and talk about their experiences with heroin? We can't discuss CIA selling crack through gangs because somebody will come in and discuss their personal experiences with coca? This is a cop-out. With all the resources and Moderators then there is no reason for ATS to balk at having a user-drug experience forum like erowid.org if that's the road truth wants you to take. ...Unless folks want to collectively admit that ATS is like a tooth that can't bite into anything truly hard?

Skeptic: You say that the porch gets overrun by "bugs" or "stoners" but did you ever see Revenge of the Nerds? I think labels and stereotypes are harmful (though I'm guilty of calling people jocks and richies) don't you? Have you ever, even for moment, been a "stoner" or a "drunk"? Well anyway, thanks for the momentary window of truth and light even if some now need to flick the light off to preserve their comfort level.

Just so long as the "porch" remains "fun".

[edit on 28-2-2009 by smallpeeps]

reply to post by interestedalways


What Ego trap, i am talking about people, who are posting here, who have not read all the updates.

Do i see clearly, i am not sure. But i have read this whole darn thread.

I am talking about the people who have only read the opening post, and then openly ridiculing the staff.

Were lucky they even compromised, and let us form a committee, they had the right to BAN this subject(Though i Strongly disagreed with that option).

They could have left it the way it was, without any compromises.

Yes the BAN is still in place, Hopefully the Committee can amend that.

I simply Agree with this,

Might I suggest amending this thread's title to reflect the efforts now underway in connection to resolving the problem?

It has nothing to do with Ego.

[edit on 28-2-2009 by darcon]

Originally posted by darcon
reply to post by interestedalways

 

What Ego trap, i am talking about people, who are posting here, who have not read all the updates.

Do i see clearly, i am not sure. But i have read this whole darn thread.

It has nothing to do with Ego.

Well presented.

I apologize, just getting a little testy.

reply to post by smallpeeps

Thousands of posts on Afganistan but we can't discuss the reality (heroin) of it all because some junkie might also get on the thread and talk about their experiences with heroin? We can't discuss CIA selling crack through gangs because somebody will come in and discuss their personal experiences with coca? This is a cop-out. With all the resources and Moderators then there is no reason for ATS to balk at having a user-drug experience forum like erowid.org if that's the road truth wants you to take. ...Unless folks want to collectively admit that ATS is like a tooth that can't bite into anything truly hard?

Here is what I think the problem is. ATS wants to be allowed into view by as many people as possible. (That's just practical business sense right? If you got a product you would like marketed wouldnt you want that exposure to be to as many people as possible.)

What happens when people start discussing personal drug use and such on a public forum such as ATS is that keywords inevitably pop up on certain net nanny software programmes and then that software program blocks ATS. This limits the view by any interested parties involved. This also decreases ad revenue. Without that ad revenue the site wouldn't be able to continue to do what it does best, by providing everyone with a unique and intellectual forum for topics that aren't apart of everyday life.

Besides the fact that every single one of your posts is individually copyrighted to you individually. Your username. You as a person. When you post on here you voluntarily give up your Fifth Amendment protection against self incrimination.

It is to protect you, it is to protect the site owners that they came up with the simple rule outlined in the terms and conditions. It's not brain surgery here its just what makes it possible for ATS to continue as a site on their way to trying to be a main stream media outlet. All by the way user generated.

I can definitely see their point of view on this subject. It's not that they don't want you to talk about drugs. It is all about you not talking about your own personal drug use. There is a lot of conspiracy that is attached to the war on drugs. Today there is a lot of news headlines about this very conspiracy. Yet we as a collective whole are being held hostage by those that can't keep their own bong out of the conversation.

My freedom of speech is being obstructed by those few that cant put the joint down long enough to come up with a valuable piece of material to read. It's sad and pathetic but I see the staffs problem with this.

It's a slippery slope that they have to play here and they want to succeed in their business and they want you the membership to define where that goes for the most part.

But they have some limits. The people that want to confess on here to their own personal drug problems make it harder for everyone else here to work out the story in the MSM or find out the real reason that these things are happining.

It's a few bad apples ruining it for the whole bunch