One in nine people who live in UK born abroad

It isn't so much about 'kicking them out' as simply drawing the line.

The country can only hold so many people without turning into one huge city, what is the benefit of having a large economy if people are seeing declining quality of life because of how congested it is becoming.

It should be for each country to decide themselves when to shut the door on immigrants, not be constrained by international freedom of movement laws.

Originally posted by blackcube
The people that are so afraid of immigrants are probable the ones that never traveled beyond their national borders. Living in a country with just a single culture is a little boring to the hell. People change, population change, nations change. Changing is a fact of life.
Just imagine how stupid would be if you keep thinking the same way that you were thinking when you are just a teenager. Meh... I would be really bored and disappointed myself.
Keeping some traditions are good but you can't live in the past forever.
I know accepting the unknown is hard exercise... but we must try

[edit on 26/2/09 by blackcube]

That's only focusing on one aspect of it though, surely? You're suggesting that problems regarding immigration are really problems regarding some form of 'multi-culturalism'. That's a weirdly simplistic picture. A few posters, myself included, have referred to other issues regarding immigration.

reply to post by The Last Man on Earth

non-Muslim uses the word "muslim"?

nice try

show me any topic where i have argued against anyone of any faith using term Muslim

also i dont take sides due to faith,
I am pro Russia not because i am Christian
Mostly against Pakistan, damn thats wrong right since i should be taking their side and so forth.

you assume to much

you have a weird way of grouping countries

also to you what is the definition of Muslim, i would really like to know
since the last time i checked Muslim = someone that follows Islam

but nice try and distorting my words,

People have a right to say what ever they want about Islam
just dont expect people who follow the faith not to say anything.
just like Christians, Jews and so on , on their faiths.

Originally posted by bodrul
nice try

show me any topic where i have argued against anyone of any faith using term Muslim

The conflict is not about Christianity vs Islam, the conflict is about the morals and ethics of the Western World vs Islam. And you seem to side with Islam a lot.

Originally posted by bodrulalso i dont take sides due to faith,
I am pro Russia not because i am Christian

Is it because the Americans are a bunch of dick-knobbing arseholes? If so, I'm with you on that one.

Originally posted by bodrulMostly against Pakistan, damn thats wrong right since i should be taking their side and so forth.

Well, that's good to hear.

Originally posted by bodrul
you have a weird way of grouping countries

Well, it's easy. Any countries that share common themes can be grouped. In this case, I've chosen Muslim countries with incredibly silly and unpronounceable names that end in "stan" (Persian for "land"), since they're all basically the same and right next to each other.

If you feel this assessment is somehow inaccurate, show me where they aren't weirdly-spelt, or Muslim or sat next to each other.

Originally posted by bodrulalso to you what is the definition of Muslim, i would really like to know
since the last time i checked Muslim = someone that follows Islam

I feel like a stand up comedian who's just been set up for the best joke ever.

Honestly, my definition of Muslim is the same as any other religion, and I'm pretty sure I've made it fairly clear, probably in this thread.

Anyone who worships their invisible friend(s) is a bit weird. That's my definition of a Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Scientologist, Labour supporter (ha!), etc.

Originally posted by bodrulPeople have a right to say what ever they want about Islam
just dont expect people who follow the faith not to say anything.
just like Christians, Jews and so on , on their faiths.

Sure, I guess it's fair to attempt to validate a book supposedly written by an ancient madman (choose your religious text of preference here).

The thing is, there isn't much in Islam that really does mesh well with Western values. We don't go in for ancient (and pretty much modern) Arabic culture much because...well, it's barbaric, mostly. Unfortunately, Islam seems to insist that every follower adopt Arabic culture along with it, for some reason. This is a significant issue for me, as I think 7th century Arab morality is...lacking.

But if you feel that it's the right set of constraints with which to imprison your mind for your entire life, then I'm pitching a tent in my pants over it for you, I really am.

Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth

I actually saw a study that suggested that 83% of British people were the direct descendants of the indigenous population of ancient Britain, from before the Romans.

Not quite right, the indigenous race to UK Ireland and northern France are defined by their ginger hair, roughly 7%. So if you aren’t ginger then your immigrant ancestry is showing. As a point of interest people with ginger hair are the only ethnic group of people who have not rights in UK or globally including racial discrimination laws. So if you live in the UK and are ginger and bored, get together and have a try for land rights (it was stolen by the Romans, then the Normans who’s descendents still own the bulk of UK land) and or tax reductions, it worked for Native Americans and Australia’s Aboriginals.

When I lived in Bournemouth, I encountered more foreigners than native Britons there. of course, it's a university town, so that wasn't a surprise. Being foreign myself, it wasn't really that bad.

However, going to other towns across Britain, and some do not resemble cities and cultures belonging to Europe, let alone Britain. It's one thing to have alot of immigrants, it's another thing when said immigrants do not assimilate into the dominant culture of the host nation.

That's the tragedy. Not that there are foreigners coming, but that many are Balkanizing the country into something unrecognizable.

Originally posted by northerngate

Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth

I actually saw a study that suggested that 83% of British people were the direct descendants of the indigenous population of ancient Britain, from before the Romans.

Not quite right, the indigenous race to UK Ireland and northern France are defined by their ginger hair, roughly 7%. So if you aren’t ginger then your immigrant ancestry is showing. As a point of interest people with ginger hair are the only ethnic group of people who have not rights in UK or globally including racial discrimination laws. So if you live in the UK and are ginger and bored, get together and have a try for land rights (it was stolen by the Romans, then the Normans who’s descendents still own the bulk of UK land) and or tax reductions, it worked for Native Americans and Australia’s Aboriginals.

Er...no. They ginger hair was, of course, an occurance in Scandinavian, British and German races, however they wouldn't have all been uniformly ginger.

The thing with the Roman, Anglo-Saxon, Danish and Norman rule is that it was always a small elite class that ruled over the natives. It's not like 8,000 men in the Norman army eradicated the million people in England at the time.

The loss of indigenous British culture is tragic. The point is that unassimilative immigrants are now so large in number that they are outbreeding those that ascribe to British values and culture. The situation is out of control, and its too late. A foothold situation has arisen, and cannot be addressed adequately by ANY means.

The issue is that Britain was weak. The overpowering of cultures occurs only when the subjugated culture is not strong enough.

Take Japan as another example- a highly industrialised, prosperous and advanced nation yet totally unaccepting of immigrants at all. Their native culture is immensely strong and rooted. Japan will never, ever be "overrun" by immigrants for those reasons.

Other nations, such as the UK, have accomodated too much and allowed too many immigrants into the country. That was a fundamental mistake. I am also an immigrant, but would consider myself fairly well acclimatised. The question of acclimatisation is easily solved by allowing in only tiny numbers of immigrants. When surrounded by natives, the immigrant has no choice but to adapt and settle. When he does, everyone is happy. The natives have a greater diversity of cuisine, music etc; but the core nature of the community is unchanged. Ghettoisation that has occured in Bradford etc means that immigrants (even up to third generation immigrants) have no impetus to adapt.

However, now that it has occured, we can only see what happens next. The parties of the far-right are wrong in their approach to the solution. They posit a return to an old-style British society based on race-based repatriation but that philosophy is flawed.
The only solution in my opinion is to cease immigration in total. This is naturally impossible because of the EU free movement laws, but is the only interim policy that can make a difference.

[edit on 27-2-2009 by 44soulslayer]

Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth

Originally posted by northerngate

Not quite right, the indigenous race to UK Ireland and northern France are defined by their ginger hair, roughly 7%. So if you aren’t ginger then your immigrant ancestry is showing. As a point of interest people with ginger hair are the only ethnic group of people who have not rights in UK or globally including racial discrimination laws. So if you live in the UK and are ginger and bored, get together and have a try for land rights (it was stolen by the Romans, then the Normans who’s descendents still own the bulk of UK land) and or tax reductions, it worked for Native Americans and Australia’s Aboriginals.

Er...no. They ginger hair was, of course, an occurance in Scandinavian, British and German races, however they wouldn't have all been uniformly ginger.

Er ? isn’t that what I said, with the exception of excluding other some other European tribes and not forgetting some Asia and Africa tribes.

Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth
The thing with the Roman, Anglo-Saxon, Danish and Norman rule is that it was always a small elite class that ruled over the natives. It's not like 8,000 men in the Norman army eradicated the million people in England at the time.

I don’t recall saying that they wiped out the native population, what I said was that they stole their land, and removed their rights. Even now UK citizens only have pseudo rights. We elect a government that’s allowed to self administer to a certain degree, however the House of Lords (historically and ancestrally the Norman invaders) have the actual say.

reply to post by 44soulslayer


The government should just tell Europe that we aint taking any more Immigrants. Full stop. Im sure we are powerful enough as a nation to get our point across. There are things our government could do that would injure Europes pockets if they dont comply.

As for the immigrants, I'd close the door so to speak. And I'd make it a prerequisite that immigrants have a job and a home to come too, if they lose that job they have 1 month to find another id they fail there belongings will be sold to pay for there air fair back home.

Id make them pay more tax and NI for the 1st 5 years in case they need NHS help or something. And I wouldn't allow them any benefits for 5 years.

Id also limit them to having one child, after the woman gives birth I'd take her straight to be sterilized. And the father too.

If they commit any crimes they get kicked out, and there belongings seized.

I wouldn't treat them like this indefinitly, just until there numbers are greatly reduced. To about 5% of the population.

All those immigrant workers who come and get on, integrate and work hard will get some tax back after the 5 years are up.

Harsh eh!! But desperate times require desperate measures. There are loads of eastern Europeans that are here working hard and integrating well. But a lot of people from 'Asia' dont do so well.

Err is there supposedly a problem with this or something?

Britain has forever been a place with lots of immigration and a fair amount of emigration. That's what you get for being a fertile nation with other resources kicking about too.

reply to post by Damien_uk

Other than "because I'm a retard with no idea how important cheap foreign labour is to the economy, esp. the rural economy", why are you kicking these people out?

A lot are leaving of their own accord as the value of the pound falls, esp. the Polish, since the Zloty is worth about 40% more than it used to, meaning the payments they're sending back are worth less.

And once you start getting into "we won't take EU migrants", you then get reciprocal measures against British businesses and people abroad. This is Not A Good Thing.

Well now the British know how the Palestinians felt when a bunch of people came in and took over their land. Americans will know the same feeling. Ah, isn't life wonderful....

[edit on 4-3-2009 by American_Soviets]

reply to post by American_Soviets

Err rather different situation to the whole Israel/Palestine thing.

reply to post by jBrereton


Red: [after having his necklace snatched by Deebo] Hey, man, why didn't y'all help me!
Smokey: [slouching in his chair] Man, I'm high.
Red: Man, that's #ed up. If it was y'all, I would've helped y'all.
Craig Jones: What about the time he tried to choke me in Smoke's backyard?
Red: [pause, thinks about it] Oh, that was different..




[edit on 4-3-2009 by American_Soviets]

Immigration Minister Phil Woolas has accused the Office for National Statistics of "playing politics" with population figures. He said he was "appalled" at the release of figures showing one in nine British residents was born abroad.

BBC


As usual as soon as immigration is mention a Nu Labour minister seems to be playing the race card, what is supposed to be so "sinister" about these figures being released, and why shouldn't the british people know just how many immigrants are in their country?

reply to post by jBrereton


Cheap foreign labor is one reason why British people cant get jobs in there local area, but I wasnt talking about stopping foreigners already here continuing work. I know of people who have been out of work for over 6 months! They say that business wont even look at there CV. I know I couldn't afford 6 months with out a wage. Could you?

British people who move abroad either move there to get a new job, open a business or retire. We dont move abroad to claim benefits. If a Brit moves abroad and it doesnt work out they move back home. They dont start preaching hate and asking for hand outs.

I think its completely fair to expect any new arrivals to work, and come here already prepared. (Speak English, have a job & house).

If you read my post, I was mainly talking about foreigners who come for a free ride.

If you think we can continue to take people into our tiny island who hate us, our way of life and dont want to work you are mad. It is hard working immigrants we need, like the Polish and the other eastern Europeans but we dont need anymore at the minute. Once there are plenty of jobs around again we should take them in, but in smaller numbers.

Edited for spelling error

[edit on 5-3-2009 by Damien_uk]

Ive just copy and pasted what i said on the other thread about this here because i missed this one first time around.
"I dont see anything wrong with this at all. I live in a different country from where i was born and may even one day live in the UK. It says a lot about a country that people want to live in it. But i guess its the fact that im white and an english speaker who works hard and spends adequetly that i wouldnt get the same publicity as the current situation. "

Originally posted by bodrul
also there are more polish people then Asians these days

no there damn well is not

Originally posted by solidshot

As usual as soon as immigration is mention a Nu Labour minister seems to be playing the race card, what is supposed to be so "sinister" about these figures being released, and why shouldn't the british people know just how many immigrants are in their country?

As in Stalin's Russia, in New Labour Britain truth and statistics are "sinister"