One in nine people who live in UK born abroad, page 1

posted on Feb, 25 2009 @ 06:35 AM

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One in nine people who live in UK born abroad

www.independent.co.uk

The rapidly changing face of Britain was laid bare yesterday in new figures showing that one in nine people living in Britain were born abroad.

Official statistics showed the number of people born overseas who were resident in Britain increased by 290,000 last year to a record 6.5 million.

The figures included 4.1 million foreign nationals living in the country in the year to June 2008, up from 3.8 million in the previous 12 months, according to the Office for National Statistics.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Merriman Weir

posted on Feb, 25 2009 @ 06:35 AM

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This isn't some scare-mongering from a right-wing anti-immigration source. The actual figures are from the Office for National Statistics and the story is from a newspaper that is generally identified as 'left-leaning'.

Immigration is sensitive issue at the moment, perhaps more so due to the recession/depression than it has been in recent years. It's also a complex issue due to the potential off-setting of age-related demographic problems, something that's often proffered as a reason as to why we literally need immigration.

I've never really been sure about the idea of immigration off-setting skills deficits though. It might have made sense in the short-term, but it would have made more sense redressing problems with (lack of) eduction, (lack of) training and the lack of opportunities for manufacturing and in trades that exist in the first place. It's OK to 'import' foreign dentists and plumbers &c., but when there's massive waiting lists for British residents to get training in these kinds of areas. For example, my local college had a waiting list of 2-3 years for a place on 'trades'-related vocational courses which, incidentally, had been scaled down year-on-year in previous years anyway.

It also adds another slant on the figures I mentioned in a thread here about why immigration is different issue in England or Britain than it is in America where England has 1/6th of the U.S. total population living in an area a 1/75th of the size of the U.S.

Although it's a complicated issue with many strands to it, I think this particular story will be inevitably reduced to a 'raise the drawbridge' ethos by various political parties.

www.independent.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

solidshot

posted on Feb, 25 2009 @ 07:07 AM

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The figures don't surprise me tbh, in my own town i would estimate that anything upto 30->40% of the population are immigrants or decend from people who have immigrated into this country within the last couple of decades

The Last Man on Earth

posted on Feb, 25 2009 @ 07:19 AM

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Well, we've gone beyond the point of no return really. We're too sensitive to perform the reconquista that Britain will require, and if we simply flee en-mass to another country, we are as bad as the people we are attempting to avoid.

I personally walked from my house to the town center without hearing one word of English being spoken in the local town center of where I live. Freaking awesome, that's just what I want in my own country - the inability to understand my neighbours.

I do hope no-one will tell me to learn those languages either. If I had moved to Poland or Muslim-i-stan or somewhere equally squalid, then yes, I would. As I live in England, and I am English, I fail to see why it is my responsibility to learn another language.

I'd just like to add: I don't care about skin colour. I don't even care about country of origin. I care about homogenisation and amalgamation. If you come to another country, freaking fit in with the natives! If I went to France, you can bet your face I'd end up eating the local cuisine and speaking French. I wouldn't demand that the French start putting up signs in English and that they serve English food in their resturants.

paperplanes

posted on Feb, 25 2009 @ 07:29 AM

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National sovereignty is becoming less and less sustainable as the years go on. It is a concept that worked well in the past, but we are now seeing a rapid erosion of national identity; countries are more interconnected and interdependent by the day. We are in dire need of a revamp of our conception of the world and structure of our national governments (and the resources they provide to both citizens and immigrants). I suspect at least a few countries are going to take a severe hit if they aren't able to acclimate in time, if they don't fall completely. This is a serious issue that I hope our leaders are looking into. As a former libertarian, it hurts a little bit to say that national identity is going the way of the dodo, but it is. That might just be a good thing--only time will tell.

I think it should also be said that the leading powers are, to a degree, suffering due to their neglect and actual aggressive undermining of other nations. When you turn a blind eye to a weakening nation, or proactively damage other nations for your own gain, you ought to be aware of the repercussions. One day, citizens of those falling nations might just come knocking on your door with their hands outstretched for assistance; don't be surprised.

Of course, this is just my opinion. Go ahead and tell me how wrong I am.

solidshot

posted on Feb, 25 2009 @ 07:31 AM

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I do hope no-one will tell me to learn those languages either.

Don't know what it's like in other parts of the country? but where i live they have been teaching the kids in junior schools Urdu (not all of them but a large number of the schools) isn't it about time they taught the immigrants coming into this country our language so they can integrate with us rather than expecting us to integrate with them?

The Last Man on Earth

posted on Feb, 25 2009 @ 07:46 AM
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Urdu? What the hell is the point in that? All the countries that is spoken in as a native language were part of the British empire and therefore speak English. How utterly redundant.

bodrul

posted on Feb, 25 2009 @ 07:49 AM
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reply to post by The Last Man on Earth

there is a country called Muslim-i-stan?
damn you may have just discoverd a new country care to show it on google earth?

1/9 people are from another country,
also there are more polish people then Asians these days
i will admit i am one of the 1/9 moved to the UK 21 years ago

but anyway could you tell me what Faith has to do with language?

The Last Man on Earth

posted on Feb, 25 2009 @ 07:56 AM
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Originally posted by bodrul
there is a country called Muslim-i-stan?
damn you may have just discoverd a new country care to show it on google earth?

Damn, Bodrul! Don't let your religion define your identity! Don't get so defensive about it!

You know as well as I do that when I said "Muslim-i-stan" I was referring to the collection of Muslim countries that go towards central Asia, that have largely-unpronouncable names, like Kyrgyzstan, etc!

Originally posted by bodrul1/9 people are from another country,
also there are more polish people then Asians these days
i will admit i am one of the 1/9 moved to the UK 21 years ago

Well, big deal, but incidentally, why did you move here?

Originally posted by bodrulbut anyway could you tell me what Faith has to do with language?

Can you tell me where I said faith is a problem? It is, any idiot who has an invisible friend is a problem, especially when combined with the concept of "worship", but I didn't mention it on this thread.

solidshot

posted on Feb, 25 2009 @ 08:01 AM
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Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth
Urdu? What the hell is the point in that?

In the last decade or so the number of Pakistanis in this town has risen from around 5% of the population to around 20%, in another decade or so i can see this town being like Leicester where they are a majority

The Last Man on Earth

posted on Feb, 25 2009 @ 08:03 AM
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Originally posted by solidshot

Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth
Urdu? What the hell is the point in that?

In the last decade or so the number of Pakistanis in this town has risen from around 5% of the population to around 20%, in another decade or so i can see this town being like Leicester where they are a majority

Indeed, but they speak English in Pakistan. It's one of their official languages. Why the hell teach Urdu here if they teach English over there...

solidshot

posted on Feb, 25 2009 @ 08:07 AM
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Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth
Indeed, but they speak English in Pakistan. It's one of their official languages. Why the hell teach Urdu here if they teach English over there...

Because it's the politically correct thing to do, and the PC Nazi brigade seem to demand it
that and a large number of the locals seemingly refuse to speak English

Acidtastic

posted on Feb, 25 2009 @ 08:15 AM
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At the end of the day, who bloody cares? The majority of the country are desendants of immigrants. Why, i myself am 4th generation (most of my family originate from Eastern Europe) but I'm white, so i can get away with it.

The sooner we all stop looking at eachother as somehow different, and focus on how we're all the same, the sooner these non news stories stop getting any attention at all.

solidshot

posted on Feb, 25 2009 @ 08:20 AM
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Originally posted by Acidtastic
At the end of the day, who bloody cares? The majority of the country are desendants of immigrants. Why, i myself am 4th generation (most of my family originate from Eastern Europe) but I'm white, so i can get away with it.

The sooner we all stop looking at each other as somehow different, and focus on how we're all the same, the sooner these non news stories stop getting any attention at all.

Thats all well and good, but your family seemingly wanted and at least tried to integrate with the people of this country? what about when people immigrate here with no intention of integrating?

Acidtastic

posted on Feb, 25 2009 @ 08:26 AM
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Originally posted by solidshot

Originally posted by Acidtastic
At the end of the day, who bloody cares? The majority of the country are desendants of immigrants. Why, i myself am 4th generation (most of my family originate from Eastern Europe) but I'm white, so i can get away with it.

The sooner we all stop looking at each other as somehow different, and focus on how we're all the same, the sooner these non news stories stop getting any attention at all.

Thats all well and good, but your family seemingly wanted and at least tried to integrate with the people of this country? what about when people immigrate here with no intention of integrating?
I think the problem with your little sweeping generalisation here, is that some of the older generation of non English immigrants feel that they can't intergrate. Our culture is a huge shock to some people, it's a credit to us as a country that we have different cultures, not all melted into one mix'n'match society.

The Last Man on Earth

posted on Feb, 25 2009 @ 08:26 AM
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Originally posted by Acidtastic
At the end of the day, who bloody cares? The majority of the country are desendants of immigrants. Why, i myself am 4th generation (most of my family originate from Eastern Europe) but I'm white, so i can get away with it.

The sooner we all stop looking at eachother as somehow different, and focus on how we're all the same, the sooner these non news stories stop getting any attention at all.

I actually saw a study that suggested that 83% of British people were the direct descendants of the indigenous population of ancient Britain, from before the Romans.

And that's all well and good, if they think like you do. But most people don't hold that opinion, so basically what you're saying is spread your legs and let them take what they want.

Acidtastic

posted on Feb, 25 2009 @ 08:27 AM
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Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth

And that's all well and good, if they think like you do. But most people don't hold that opinion, so basically what you're saying is spread your legs and let them take what they want.
well, that's not what i was saying but *blushes* go on then, I'm game.

bodrul

posted on Feb, 25 2009 @ 08:28 AM
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reply to post by The Last Man on Earth

if you read any of topics you will see i dont define someone by Faith
but by their attitude towards others

i do frawn apon others who only judge someone by faith

why did i move here, seeing as i was barey two years old
i didnt have any reasons.

reason i said you have a problem is because you mention Muslim-i-stan which would mean Muslims in General.
which would mean you think Muslims speak a diffrent launguage.
what launguage do white muslims speak?

[edit on 25-2-2009 by bodrul]

Merriman Weir

posted on Feb, 25 2009 @ 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth
I personally walked from my house to the town center without hearing one word of English being spoken in the local town center of where I live. Freaking awesome, that's just what I want in my own country - the inability to understand my neighbours.

Actually, this happens to me most days. Where I live has traditionally been the 'dumping ground' for immigrants. In the 1800s it had a large Irish community (as did a lot of Manchester and surrounding areas), during the 1970s a large Asian (Hindu) community and then in the late 1980s this began to be superseded by a larger Asian (Muslim) community. Very little of the previous Hindu community remains now; the businesses and the temples have all gone. During the late 1990s a large influx of refugees from the Bosnian conflict arrived and over the last few years a lot of Polish and French-speaking Africans have appeared too.

I do hope no-one will tell me to learn those languages either. If I had moved to Poland or Muslim-i-stan or somewhere equally squalid, then yes, I would. As I live in England, and I am English, I fail to see why it is my responsibility to learn another language.

The language aspect only really bothers me because of the expenditure involved. I know from personal experience the kind of money spent on interpreters and translation services in our local council. I think language is the biggest barrier to integration and reinforces 'ghetto-mentalities' more than any other aspect of immigration.

My partner's parents came to England in the late 1950s as immigrants due to the instability surrounding the Hungarian uprising. Couldn't speak a word of English, and yet, within 6 months completely fluent! Hungary - particularly back then - was one of those countries where English wasn't of any real importance; German and Russian tended to be the second language options. Yet now, when English really is so widely spread due to mass media and finance, I find it incredible that people arrive in Britain with no English at all and very little drive to actually learn it.

Personally, I wouldn't dream of moving to another country without wanting to learn learn the language. I extend that to British ex-pat communities who don't make the effort too.

The Last Man on Earth

posted on Feb, 25 2009 @ 08:52 AM
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Originally posted by bodrul
if you read any of topics you will see i dont define someone by Faith

You define yourself by faith. Why oh why do I know you are a Muslim? Until this sentence, you didn't know I was an abject follower of Xix the Volcano God, did you?

You have the "I'm a Muslim, thus I will defend Muslims" attitude when you post, mate.

Originally posted by bodrulbut by their attitude towards others

i do frawn apon others who only judge someone by faith

Well, I don't only judge them by it, but it is part of the composite.

Originally posted by bodrulwhy did i move here, seeing as i was barey two years old
i didnt have any reasons.

Well, since I had no idea what age you are (you could have been 50 for all I knew) could you follow the question to it's logical conclusion and possibly extrapolate a reason for your parents moving?

Originally posted by bodrulreason i said you have a problem is because you mention Muslim-i-stan which would mean Muslims in General.

You know, if they'd just shut up about being Muslim for five freaking minutes, maybe I wouldn't have a problem with them in general. It's like it's some kind of curse that they have to inform everyone about the second the meet them. I have no idea who is a Hindu or not, you know what I mean?

But this is what I mean about you being defined by your religion. You picked up on me lumping a group of countries into one category by saying they are Muslim countries that end in "stan". This doesn't mean Muslims in general, it just means the weirdly-spelt places east of Persia.

Originally posted by bodrulwhich would mean you think Muslims speak a diffrent launguage.
what launguage do white muslims speak?
[edit on 25-2-2009 by bodrul]

I think Muslims speak English. I know this, because I have heard them bleating on about how persecuted they are, ad nauseum. And they speak English because if they didn't, we would not be able to understand them, and thus they would not be able to lodge a million and one imbecillic complaints against the nations they move to.