These are exciting times to be alive, just like the Sixties

Originally posted by Ahabstar
And as they sit there trying to figure it out. As to why we just keep on smiling and living our lives as best we can. That's when we can sucker punch them.

Like I said... Window of opportunity coming up.

Ready or not.

Originally posted by MoonMine
reply to post by gottago

 

So where is YOUR scenario leading to exactly?

Remember mankind will survive whatever it takes....

It certainly isn't leading to any sort of utopia, that's for sure. Quite frankly, your whole outlook, though couched in love for fellow man, is egocentric and selfish in the extreme.

Millions--let me correct that, tens of millions--of people simply do not have the ability to bug out to the woods and play Daniel Boone. What a naive, selfish, and self-deluding fantasy.

Maybe you're sitting pretty on a couple of acres in the exurbs somewhere, growing your squash and fava beans and recycling your plastics, but what about that family of five living in Fort Lee NJ, in a condo they bought at the height of the housing bubble, who have been living paycheck to paycheck, with the husband just laid off and three kids to feed?

What, exactly are they supposed to do?

Let me remind you, there are literally millions of families just like them across this country, and your blithe disregard for their plight is the height of arrogance and indifference. You'd as well send them to misery and starvation just to see your cockeyed fantasy into being.

But the fact is, your fantasy is just that, a fantasy. It has no root connection to reality. Your vision is saccarine and selfish and heartless.

I see nothing good coming this way. This depression is just welling up, like the tsunami wave about to hit the beach, coming in from the deep ocean. It will wipe out millions, It will stir civil unrest, and it will lead to ever-greater gov't control and repression. And yes, it was planned this way.

It is the biggest lie of all that no one saw this coming. In fact, I believe this was planned for decades. Greenspan telling us that the economic cycle no longer applied and inflating one economic bubble after another, and the systematic dismantlement of financial regulation from Reagan through Bush II insured that the markets, those greedy ***s, would do what they do best--corrupt the economy and steal it blind.

It has come to pass, and this is the endgame. More control o your money--if you have any--and your rights and freedoms. Concentration of wealth and power in ever fewer hands. The kleptocracy of the psychopaths is re-enforced and extended. That is the end result, not some pie-in-the-sky fantasy of a new 60s. Please.

[edit on 21-2-2009 by gottago]

Good Morning People. Believe me, it's a new dawn.

Grace Slick. August 16, 1969 6:00 AM. Bethel, New York(Woodstock).
Intro to Volunteers.


Look what's happening out in the street
(Got a revolution, got to revolution)

[edit on 2/21/2009 by Phage]

Originally posted by gottago
but what about that family of five living in Fort Lee NJ, in a condo they bought at the height of the housing bubble, who have been living paycheck to paycheck, with the husband just laid off and three kids to feed?

What, exactly are they supposed to do?

Drop off the grid. Join a community away from the large city. What else can they do? Beg for food along with everyone else in the big cities?

There is no sense in denying a lot of people will die, and there cannot be anything done if they themselves are not willing to change in a profound way. It is difficult but not impossible. Remember the parameters: no more financial system.

Let me remind you, there are literally millions of families just like them across this country, and your blithe disregard for their plight is the height of arrogance and indifference. You'd as well send them to misery and starvation just to see your cockeyed fantasy into being.

You are stretching my ideas. I would not presume to disregard their plight, and I would expect you not to either. Again, form communities intead on relying on a defunct government to help you.

Anyone can walk away from a situation you described, it simply needs will and collaboration. What you call fantasy may be the only way out of immediate collapse.

But the fact is, your fantasy is just that, a fantasy. It has no root connection to reality. Your vision is saccarine and selfish and heartless.

No, it is not. What is heartless is believing in a system that has dehumanized individuals for decades, placing greed and consumption before compassion and community.

I see nothing good coming this way. This depression is just welling up, like the tsunami wave about to hit the beach, coming in from the deep ocean. It will wipe out millions, It will stir civil unrest, and it will lead to ever-greater gov't control and repression. And yes, it was planned this way.

It is the biggest lie of all that no one saw this coming. In fact, I believe this was planned for decades. Greenspan telling us that the economic cycle no longer applied and inflating one economic bubble after another, and the systematic dismantlement of financial regulation from Reagan through Bush II insured that the markets, those greedy ***s, would do what they do best--corrupt the economy and steal it blind.

It has come to pass, and this is the endgame. More control o your money--if you have any--and your rights and freedoms. Concentration of wealth and power in ever fewer hands. The kleptocracy of the psychopaths is re-enforced and extended. That is the end result, not some pie-in-the-sky fantasy of a new 60s. Please.

I agree without reservation with that last part, but if I am to understand you correctly you have no answer for that family in NJ but to join the breadline.

I simply believe there is a better way as I described. This is not egotistical by no means. Radical if you will, difficult, but certainly not an impossible fantasy. Real wealth like nutrition and shelter can be created with will and collaboration in no time.

Can you imagine the sense of freedom you will have NOT having to live paycheck to paycheck? Not being a slave to a system that enriches that powerful few?

Do not confuse the greater good of mankind with egoism by lifting out an example of hardship, this is more than obvious to me.

Thinking you can save everyone overnight is simply not possible.

Working together towards a brighter, true future is something we all can do starting tomorrow. You just need to let go of those false luxuries you were led to believe you needed to be acknowledged & accepted by society.

WE are society, not what mainstream is selling you.

Originally posted by Phage
Grace Slick. August 16, 1969 6:00 AM. Bethel, New York(Woodstock).
Intro to Volunteers.

Phage!

I prefer this one:

When the truth is found to be lies
And all the joy within you dies

Don't you want somebody to love
Don't you need somebody to love
Wouldn't you love somebody to love
You better find somebody to love

When the garden flowers baby are dead yes
And your mind is full of red

Don't you want somebody to love
Don't you need somebody to love
Wouldn't you love somebody to love
You better find somebody to love

Your eyes, I say your eyes may look like his
But in your head baby I'm afraid you don't know where it is

Don't you want somebody to love
Don't you need somebody to love
Wouldn't you love somebody to love
You better find somebody to love

Tears are running ah running down your breast
And your friends baby they treat you like a guest

Don't you want somebody to love
Don't you need somebody to love
Wouldn't you love somebody to love
You better find somebody to love

Phage posted. MoonMine happy.

[edit on 21-2-2009 by MoonMine]

Flower child here.
the 60's were NOTHING like we have going down today. I havent read the whole thread and i wont waste my time. No offense.

reply to post by MoonMine


Don't you be tryin' to tell me 'bout the J-plane!
(He says with Hey Frederick shaking the house.)

[edit on 2/21/2009 by Phage]

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by MoonMine

 

Don't you be tryin' to tell me 'bout the J-plane!
(He says with Hey Frederick shaking the house.)

[edit on 2/21/2009 by Phage]

Found it!



Now we both happy...

Originally posted by dgtempe
Flower child here.
the 60's were NOTHING like we have going down today. I havent read the whole thread and i wont waste my time. No offense.

None taken.

Take the load of, welcome friend.

Well I was six when Grace sung @ Woodstock. Like I said too young for Woodstock, but too old to understand hip-hop.

Sort of an in-the-middle generation.

Hopefully you can read page two and comment on my community theory and the long term odds for having a Venus Project like society.

Your input is valued as always, especially because you are a flower child...

[edit on 21-2-2009 by MoonMine]

I used to be a hippy, of sorts.
Down with the Military-Industrial Complex and all that.

Then, as I grew older and the movement lost its edginess, I grew complacent and *horrors* middle aged and middle class.
Conservative even.

Fast forward to 2008-2009.
I'm back to loving my country and more than fearing my government.
The Military-Industrial Complex has morphed into the New World Order.

Are things worse?
Hell, yeah.
"They" learned a lot from the Vietnam war protest years.
"We" have been dumbed down and de-sensitized.
Too little respect for others and ourselves.

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Are things worse?
Hell, yeah.
"They" learned a lot from the Vietnam war protest years.
"We" have been dumbed down and de-sensitized.
Too little respect for others and ourselves.

Man, I truly believe we have a shot at stopping them...

We just need to become human again.. Like I said they have orchestrated this mess (to probably create the NAU & Amero), but may have overplayed their hand. Like a Rollercoaster without brakes they will not be able to control the entire path of the trolley once it starts on its downward path (it has)..

Too much depression will indeed create a cash-less society, but not as they envisioned it. My hopes are bittersweet at the moment, for indeed what is required will mean suffering.

Don´t get me wrong, this does not have to be a pitchfork and barricade solution at all. Only when they become desperate to fight for survival of the state there has to be some violence, but that should quickly end as it is mere passive defense.

I am saying you do not have to overthrow your government, you can simply stop playing their game.

Originally posted by MoonMine

There is no sense in denying a lot of people will die, and there cannot be anything done if they themselves are not willing to change in a profound way. It is difficult but not impossible. Remember the parameters: no more financial system.

So this what gets you so excited, as this thread is titled? In that groovy 60s mood? The prospect of millions, if not tens of millions, of deaths in this world?

Stop a minute and think of the probability you admit to.

I'd also like to know just exactly what is your present situation--did I hit it pretty close? Got a couple acres out there on the edge of the burbs? Nice deck off the back porch, with a compost pile? Is this all just a game for you?

You are stretching my ideas. I would not presume to disregard their plight, and I would expect you not to either. Again, form communities intead on relying on a defunct government to help you.

I'm not stretching your ideas, I'm applying them to the real world; something you've been loathe to do while chanting about how wonderful an opportunity global economic collapse will be. We can all go to some open land somewhere, which will not be already taken and defended, and grow tomatoes in communes. This is our shiny new future, anarchy and a new bronze age? Sheesh!

But the fact is, your fantasy is just that, a fantasy. It has no root connection to reality. Your vision is saccarine and selfish and heartless.

No, it is not. What is heartless is believing in a system that has dehumanized individuals for decades, placing greed and consumption before compassion and community.

I don't believe in this system, I think that is quite obvious by the end of my previous post, but I believe in your misguided fantasy even less. It has no applicability to a huge, post-industrial civilization. It glides over the probable deaths of tens of millions and makes the Marin-County crowd, with a few acres in the burbs, feel smug.

In the end, how different is it than David Rockefeller's goal of a global population of 500 million? Both just don't want to look at the necessary genocide necessary to bring their visions to pass. Well, that's what both demand.

I agree without reservation with that last part, but if I am to understand you correctly you have no answer for that family in NJ but to join the breadline.

I simply believe there is a better way as I described. This is not egotistical by no means. Radical if you will, difficult, but certainly not an impossible fantasy.

Do not confuse the greater good of mankind with egoism by lifting out an example of hardship, this is more than obvious to me.

Thinking you can save everyone overnight is simply not possible.

Semantic displacement.

That example should be multiplied by the millions, for it is tens of millions of lives we are really talking about here.

Stop and think, again. You are in denial about what you are proposing. The deaths of tens of millions by starvation, because, well, that just has to be to have this post-apocalyptic love-in on Yasger's Farm.

And evoking "the greater good of mankind" for your genocide is no different than the reasoning behind the Rockefeller-backed depopulation scenarios.

You are just the inversion of the demons you think you are going to defeat with this fantasy, and just as morally bankrupt.

If you want a real solution to this crisis, it is not to destroy society back to the stone age so that you can live out your collectivist neo-hippy elitist fantasies--which in the end are no different than those of your oppressors, and come with just as much death and suffering--but to actually work to reinstate our Constitutional republic and accountability to the people.

The system is corrupted, but the basis of that system is the most enlightened and forward-looking form of society ever envisioned. It already has the profound allegiance of the population, and for good reason--it is fair, humane, and just.

This crisis is an opportunity, I agree. That opportunity is to re-establish the founding principles of our society, and to overthrow the financial kleptocracy. That is far more possible, and more beneficial to America, than this madness. They are on the ropes, as well. It is a moment of weakness for them and for oppressive gov't as well, and allows real possibility for reform and rebirth. This is the only way to see a brighter future for ourselves and future generations--a great re-awakening.

Originally posted by gottago
So this what gets you so excited, as this thread is titled? In that groovy 60s mood? The prospect of millions, if not tens of millions, of deaths in this world?

As opposed to 8 billion deaths according to the Rockefeller plan?

I'd also like to know just exactly what is your present situation--did I hit it pretty close? Got a couple acres out there on the edge of the burbs? Nice deck off the back porch, with a compost pile? Is this all just a game for you?

Not really. I live in a rented house in Spain. I do make my own wine though, which is around 1000 liters per year for personal use and gifts to neighbours and friends.

I'm not stretching your ideas, I'm applying them to the real world; something you've been loathe to do while chanting about how wonderful an opportunity global economic collapse will be. We can all go to some open land somewhere, which will not be already taken and defended, and grow tomatoes in communes. This is our shiny new future, anarchy and a new bronze age?

O, I live in the real world. I have no weatlh or reserves whatsoever at this time. The place is rented so my family and I would have to move out if I cannot afford it anymore, just like your NJ family.

But the fact is, your fantasy is just that, a fantasy. It has no root connection to reality. Your vision is saccarine and selfish and heartless.

It would be selfish maybe if I were a wealthy farmer... Is slowly dying of starvation in the city not heartless too? This is what is going to happen if a true depression hits...

I don't believe in this system, I think that is quite obvious by the end of my previous post, but I believe in your misguided fantasy even less. It has no applicability to a huge, post-industrial civilization. It glides over the probable deaths of tens of millions and makes the Marin-County crowd, with a few acres in the burbs, feel smug.

Not applicable to me, I too live month-by-month, trapped same as you.

In the end, how different is it than David Rockefeller's goal of a global population of 500 million? Both just don't want to look at the necessary genocide necessary to bring their visions to pass. Well, that's what both demand.

His way: 500 million alive, 8.5 billion dead.
The community way: Maybe millions as you say, mainly in the large cities. But: would they not die anyway if everything collapses? I´d rather take a shot at a community society. You can call that anarchy, but anarchy is nothing more than an ideology where society is run without central leadership. Anarchy is not hooded students throwing Molotov cocktails at police as you may or may not be aware. It is simply having no or minimal central government, thats all.

I prefer a skeleton government to take care of a basic administration. A true Franklin Republic you might call it. But this society would have its foundations in compact self sufficient communities.

The NWO notion that so many people need to die because "The Earth is full" is ofcourse ridiculous. The Earth is NOT full. Resources are not exhausted.

Semantic displacement.

That example should be multiplied by the millions, for it is tens of millions of lives we are really talking about here.

Better than billions, whatever triple-value scrabble words you would like to introduce to the argument, it is better than billions of deaths.

Stop and think, again. You are in denial about what you are proposing. The deaths of tens of millions by starvation, because, well, that just has to be to have this post-apocalyptic love-in on Yasger's Farm.

And evoking "the greater good of mankind" for your genocide is no different than the reasoning behind the Rockefeller-backed depopulation scenarios.

So you would rather take the bait and accept the NWO offered solution to the problem they created in the first place and run their treadmill again and again? They will kill you in the end you know, when you are of no use to them anymore. To answer your question: I have thought a long time about this. If you stop and think yourself: how hard is it to create communities and cultivate land? Do you really think people who own sufficient land will deny people coming in helping them farm and create sufficient food for the community? Financial gain is no longer a factor in the scenario remember?

You are just the inversion of the demons you think you are going to defeat with this fantasy, and just as morally bankrupt.

If you want a real solution to this crisis, it is not to destroy society back to the stone age so that you can live out your collectivist neo-hippy elitist fantasies--which in the end are no different than those of your oppressors, and come with just as much death and suffering--but to actually work to reinstate our Constitutional republic and accountability to the people.

And how exactly do you propose to do that without losing millions of lives? A financial stone age if you will. But we will still have our gathered knowledge and will quickly rise...

The system is corrupted, but the basis of that system is the most enlightened and forward-looking form of society ever envisioned. It already has the profound allegiance of the population, and for good reason--it is fair, humane, and just.

No, it is not. Do you want to know why? Because it is vunerable to corruption because it involves power & money, that´s why.

Mankind will never advance under the current political & financial system. Never.

This crisis is an opportunity, I agree. That opportunity is to re-establish the founding principles of our society, and to overthrow the financial kleptocracy. That is far more possible, and more beneficial to America, than this madness. They are on the ropes, as well. It is a moment of weakness for them and for oppressive gov't as well, and allows real possibility for reform and rebirth. This is the only way to see a brighter future for ourselves and future generations--a great re-awakening.

Again, not without the same losses. You cannot change a system with words. And believe me as I say that you can try and re-institute and political system you like, if its basis is again a geo-political government you will end up exactly where we are now in the end.

I think we are getting somewhere.. At least there is dialogue....

No in the 60's we didn't have censorship, like the kind we have on here.

The truth is out there, just not here. Oh there's a portentment of the truth.....just not the truth in the reccomended dosage's.

reply to post by MoonMine


Dialogue, agreed, getting to the heart of the matter.

You propose a neo-agrarian society to replace this one, and you say the Constitutional system, even cleansed, will lead eventually to the same impasse.

But in all honesty, how realistic is it that your system will not quickly develop into the system you decry? I'd say quite likely, if it could somehow come to pass in the first place. You cannot put technology back into the bottle, and you cannot impede societies from their natural movement towards complexity and specialization.

You must work with what you have. We have a highly complex industrial and technological society, and it will quickly regrow, even from your agrarian/utopian scenario. You are simply hoping that, by pushing society further into the past, it will not redevelop. Not likely, and it comes with severe displacement and suffering. Also, society is unprepared for such a huge realignment in the midst of economic chaos.

In essence, you're simply bugging out and washing your hands of the problems, kicking the can down the road, and ignoring the obvious negative effects.

I don't think you can simply dismantle the sum of human development and revert to a neo-eden. You can however, make lemonade from lemons. You have a much better chance to use this crisis to turn the tables and re-establish a sane society and moral and financial order. People are moral beings--most of them. What you have to do is educate the public to the reality that deviants and psychopaths currently in control of society and re-establish moral governance. This is less destructive and more plausible, and more enduring.


[edit on 21-2-2009 by gottago]

reply to post by DontTreadOnMe
I totally agree. I was young, but old enough to be aware, and remember, folks, i lived at the source: Cuba with Russian military all over the streets!!!!!
I had the priviledge??? of being involved in some of the bombings in Cuba when i was little- then the Flower Child years later here.
I've come full circle-

THIS is the worse i have ever seen in my life.

reply to post by smokehouseslim
You are not allowed one liners that dont rhyme.



[edit on 21-2-2009 by dgtempe]

Could it be Technology is the Top Reason Americans are so Pathetic and Just "Take it"?

Supposedly We have one of the Top Standards of Living in the World, with our Imaginary Wealth.

This allows Us Access to Horde Massive Amounts of Technology Laden "Goodies", built from the Lower Standard of Living, Foreign Labor Populations.

Could it be they Don't "Take it", being as they're not "Chained" to a Computer on the Internet, Listening to Music on their I-Pod's, While waiting for their Pre-Processed TV Dinners to Cook in Their Microwave Ovens, While their Cellphone is Beeping Away in the Background and Their Siblings are Arguing Who's got the Highest Score on Mortal Combat 22?

Could the 20th Centurys Most Rapid Advances of Technology in Mankinds History be to Blame for our Current Indifference?

Could this be the "Real" Conspiricy?

Our own Insatiable Lust for Knowledge and the Comforts it Affords Us?

A Deep Concept to Ponder?

[edit on 2/21/2009 by Hx3_1963]