These are exciting times to be alive, just like the Sixties

Originally posted by gottago
I read those survivalist threads too; the last one I saw was--seriously--about what was the best kind of wax to use on your crossbow string. Seriously. They don't sound like the sort of folks who are going to be building hippie communes with the neo tie-die and birkenstock crowd. In their fantasies, they'd rather flay you alive and make jerky of you than sit around the campfire and sing insert-your-favorite-alternative-band's-love-and-light-anthem-here.

You are simply conditioned to fear a state-less society.

Not every individual is a character that walked out of "deliverance" you know.

Survivalists speak up. I´m sure scores of them are "good-to-go" and not trying to roast you over an open campfire.

[edit on 21-2-2009 by MoonMine]

reply to post by MoonMine


And what about my real point that you are dreaming of utopia in the midst of economic collapse as a means to escape reality?

At least in the sixties they had an incredibly wealthy society to drop out from. The luxury to play house/utopia.

Agreed they are certainly exciting times.

Hopefully they won't get quite as exciting as the Great Drepression or the Civil War.

In their own way those were certainly exciting times too..

reply to post by gottago


dont forget to tell him about the black choppers dropping in on his parade , taking him dead or alive to the camp, maybe at the Fema camp he can sit around singing koom by ya

Originally posted by gottago
If you sincerely think this climate is the time to dream of utopia, rather than that your dreams of utopia are an escape from these realities, then I can't change your mind. But facts are on my side.

One more question:

What makes a depression a depression? No work. Inflation.

A depression only works if you allow yourself to be restricted or trapped in the current financial system right?

So if you grow your own food & draw your water from your own well what are you? If you can provide all your daily needs what are you?

In a depression?

You can create everything you need in nature, including electricity.

Everything else you need to let go for a while. We have been too pampered for the last thirty years anyway... I would not particularly call that Utopia, not in the sense like say the Venus Project envisions.

The Venus Project



This could be what we need to work towards, but it will take time.

Originally posted by gottago
And what about my real point that you are dreaming of utopia in the midst of economic collapse as a means to escape reality?

See below

At least in the sixties they had an incredibly wealthy society to drop out from. The luxury to play house/utopia.

My friend, what would you call the years 84-2001? The dot com and internet boom years. Are we not pampered with our LCD tv´s two cars and all that luxury in a fast food society?

Come on now. We are living in an incredibly wealthy society today. A society which is about to make a giant leap. I say it is for the good, you say it is for the bad. The truth is somewhere in between. Check the Venus post.

Originally posted by Frogs
Hopefully they won't get quite as exciting as the Great Drepression or the Civil War.

Real change comes with a price.

That cannot be helped, but a small price to pay in the grand scheme of things and the future of all.

reply to post by MoonMine


Yeah. Well lets hope the people of this generation actually take ACTION. Unlike the hippies who would sit around all day too stoned out of their minds to do anything productive.

Peace, love and whatever else those smelly bastards used to say.

Originally posted by thehumbleone
reply to post by MoonMine

 

Yeah. Well lets hope the people of this generation actually take ACTION. Unlike the hippies who would sit around all day too stoned out of their minds to do anything productive.

Peace, love and whatever else those smelly bastards used to say.

I agree 100%. But let´s not forget that not all were as lazy as you say... Irony is that those anti-establishment groups went to college and became lawyers and doctors and business executives anyway, just like their parents.

Ironic. No, current times are not the same, I predict the change will be much more profound.

reply to post by MoonMine


I already know of the Venus Project, but thanks for posting the video anyway. My answer to to your hope that this is how people will react to economic depression is one of incredulity.

First, the population is not educated to carry out such a transformation, and neither is such a transformation possible in contemporary, urban society. This is a neo-argrarian utopian vision; it could, conceivably, with universal support, be gradually implemented in a time of prosperity, but it is pure fantasy to believe that such a fundamental transformation can occur in the midst of severe depression and probable unrest.

How, exactly are the uninformed and untrained urban populations, 100s of millions, going to be able to suddenly adopt this program in the midst of economic depression?

It is a very appealing utopian dream, but only a dream.

Originally posted by branty
dont forget to tell him about the black choppers dropping in on his parade , taking him dead or alive to the camp, maybe at the Fema camp he can sit around singing koom by ya

Only if I can be singled out that will happen. And only if the Federal government is up and running. "The nail that sticks out will be hammered in first" Japanese proverb.

Hey, if noone gets paid or has money, who is going to fly that chopper?

Who is driving the bus to the FEMA camp?

Not me. I am planting tomatoes and cabbage.

Originally posted by gottago
How, exactly are the uninformed and untrained urban populations, 100s of millions, going to be able to suddenly adopt this program in the midst of economic depression?

We have now come full circle.

When cutoff from any and all resources initial survival instincts will prevail. I am talking a complete blackout scenario here: no supplies, empty supermarket, no access to capital whatsoever. This includes no gas, water, food, whatever. Everyone switches to survival mode. Out of that initial chaotic period communities will form like I described.

Then... In time... All resources can be shared. And everything can be free. Paving the way to real technological breakthroughs which may even allow my grandchildren to explore new worlds, who knows?

It is a very appealing utopian dream, but only a dream.

Which in time can be achieved if we stop accepting lies from "leaders" & organizations whose sole purpose is maximizing profits whatever it takes.

We are so smart and yet we are being misled time and time again by a handful of evil individuals who want everything for themselves.

That is the great part about the coming collapse: take away the power of money and you basically take away their power...

Now, ofcourse, THEY will try and inch towards their NWO by uniting North America, Canada & Mexico and introducing the Amero, claiming "it is best" and wiping out the national debt in doing so "Weimar anyone?".

But that would be a mistake to fall for that ploy. We won´t be fooled again.

reply to post by MoonMine

Can't really say I'm excited. I'm 28 with little money and no family of my own. At least I will have a little money for my shells and bullets.

All sounds good in a few words, while eliding over the reality that the Federal gov't is not simply going to shrivel and wilt like a tomato plant in a drought, but let;s have a little reality check, shall we?

America is an urban society, and large population centers have no access to the undespoiled, open lands necessary to carry out your Project Venus vision; to give one concrete example, the 8+ million residents on NYC are supposed to do what exactly--farm Central Park? And LA? Farm Disneyland and the canyons? Come on.

You admit yourself that the population in this scenario will be in unrest, and quite likely in chaos. You will see police actions, and in worst-case scenarios, the implementation of marshal law. The real worry if TSHTF is that the state national guards and militia/survivalist bands are pitted against Federal troops. And what of the Federal troops? Worn out by 8 years in Afghanistan and Iraq, they are ordered to police their own country? You already have unprecedented suicide rates in the army now; the pressures will only mount.

Defections, mutinies--in short, chaos--will reign. You might think this is a good thing. I personally do not. I think it will probably, given human nature and our pathetically consumerist lifestyle over the past 3 generations, lead to even greater chaos.

And in none of this apocalyptic vision is there any indication that your love-and-light utopian vision has the proverbial snowball's chance in Hades of coming to pass.

Originally posted by Beach Bum
reply to post by MoonMine

 

Can't really say I'm excited. I'm 28 with little money and no family of my own. At least I will have a little money for my shells and bullets.

You are not alone... Connect with the people around you.

You cannot eat shells. And chances are you would not know how to skin a rabbit once you shoot one. Maybe a distant friend or relative living in the country?

Just hook up and leave your isolation behind you. Together you will be fine.

reply to post by gottago


So where is YOUR scenario leading to exactly?

Remember mankind will survive whatever it takes....

We'll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feet
And the morals that they worship will be gone
And the men who spurred us on
Sit in judgment of all wrong
They decide and the shotgun sings the song

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again

The change, it had to come
We knew it all along
We were liberated from the fold, that's all
And the world looks just the same
And history ain't changed
'Cause the banners, they were all flown in the last war

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
No, no!

I'll move myself and my family aside
If we happen to be left half alive
I'll get all my papers and smile at the sky
Though I know that the hypnotized never lie
Do ya?

Yeah!

There's nothing in the streets
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Is now parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
No, no!

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss

[edit on 21-2-2009 by shermanium]

[edit on 21-2-2009 by shermanium]

reply to post by shermanium


I actually quoted "we won´t be fooled again" from exactly this song.

Thanks

Ah but we can also turn it around. You see they can steal our jobs, steal our money, beat us and kick us and spit in our faces. And they can sit in their ivory towers and just like the Grinch

But... but this sound wasn't sad. Why, this sound sounded glad. Every Who down in Whoville, the tall and the small, was singing without any presents at all. He hadn't stopped Christmas from coming, it came. Somehow or other, it came just the same.

And as they sit there trying to figure it out. As to why we just keep on smiling and living our lives as best we can. That's when we can sucker punch them.

But as for the music, one of my many favorites done by a cover band of sorts as a Tribute That song says so much even today.


But before someone complains I will say that the soloist was also inducted that night and those "other two guys" (Tom and Lemmy) played with George in the Traveling Willoughbys. The young guy is Dhani.

Originally posted by gottago
All sounds good in a few words, while eliding over the reality that the Federal gov't is not simply going to shrivel and wilt like a tomato plant in a drought, but let;s have a little reality check, shall we?

You are forgetting a crucial point here:

If there is no money (as in State bankrupcy) who will enforce Federal law?

Secondly: how many citizens are there as opposed to those enforcing government?

Do you think they will stand a chance against the change-hungry masses?
I just know this whole mess is again orchestrated to enable the NAU, but they may have overplayed their hand this time. People are open for real change and this window of opportunity should be used.

Me, I will just ignore them (Feds) and do what I have to do to survive without them, which is my birth right as a free inhabitant of the planet Earth.

[edit on 21-2-2009 by MoonMine]