TR-3B nuclear powered flying triangle

reply to post by zorgon


I don't understand why they are limited to reducing the TR-3B's mass to only 89 percent. Why can't the magnetic vortex open the Burkard Heim hyperspace and reduce the TR-3B's mass to 100 percent for FTL interstellar travel?

reply to post by Larryman


I am having difficulty with that whole drive system...

Where is Phage when ya need him?

Originally posted by zorgon

The plasma, mercury based, is pressurized at 250,000 atmospheres at a temperature of 150 degrees Kelvin and accelerated to 50,000 rpm to create a super-conductive plasma with the resulting gravity disruption.

www.alienscientist.com...
Thoughts?

My thoughts are, I don't know what he means by "Mercury-based plasma".

Mercury is a solid at that temperature so I don't know how you'd rotate it at 50,000 rpm.

Melting point

For most substances, melting and freezing points are approximately equal. For example, the melting point and freezing point of the element mercury is 234.32 kelvin (−38.83 °C or −37.89 °F).

Unlike the boiling point, the melting point is relatively insensitive to pressure because the solid/liquid transition represents only a small change in volume.

Not only does pressure not have a big effect on the solid/liquid phase transition, to the extent it does have an effect, the increased pressure makes it more likely to become a solid since a solid takes up less space for most substances except water.

So there are some technical details about how this thing works, the plasma simply can't be made of mercury alone and do what he says, unless something else is mixed with the mercury, and if so, what? I don't know if alienscientist gets that.

There is an even bigger problem with this claim. Have you ever seen those big crane-mounted electromagnets at junkyards used to pick up and move cars? The basic idea of those is similar, they spin some electrons around in a circle really fast, and what does it do? It makes a big electromagnet. It may just be a coil of wire and not superconductive, but do it with a superconductor and you still basically get a magnet though maybe a stronger one. You don't get antigravity.

Maybe Fouche is really telling us what someone told him, and he was being tested to see how gullible he was, if he's not making it up. But however he got that story, now that he's telling it to us I feel like we are the ones being tested to see how gullible we are.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
My thoughts are, I don't know what he means by "Mercury-based plasma".

Well I know of mercury based plasma.. but it uses mercury vapor. And there are old rumors of the NAZI tech using mercury in some way on those rumored UFO's they were making..

Microwave measurements of electron density in the afterglow of a transient mercury-vapor plasma discharge,

LINK

Hmmm

Originally posted by Aim64C
I've said it before countless times, and I'll say it again:

You don't test this stuff over cities. If you put it against your own air defense systems (or those of other nations), you don't do it near cities.

You ought to hang around Palm dale for a few weeks.... bet you sing a different tune

Originally posted by Bobbox1980
Your post got me thinking. Perhaps Tokamaks are being built to research and improve the interstellar FTL drives in the Naval Space Command's inventory. Perhaps fusion research is a cover story.

The Levitated Dipole Fusion Confinement Concept

Previous studies [1-4] indicate that a levitated dipole would be favorable for a D-He3 fuel cycle based power source. The D-D cycle is the most promising because of the availability of deuterium. Recently we have considered utilizing a levitated dipole for the D-D cycle based power source. Fusion reactors based on the deuterium-deuterium (D-D) reaction would be superior to D-T based reactors in so far as they can greatly reduce the power produced in neutrons and do not requires the breeding of tritium. In a recent article titled "Helium Catalyzed D-D Fusion in a Levitated Dipole" we have proposed a fusion power source, based on an alternative fuel cycle which we call ``helium catalyzed D-D". We have explored the application of a levitated dipole as a D-D power source and found that a dipole may have the unique capability of producing excellent energy confinement accompanied by low particle confinement. Additionally a levitated dipole device would be intrinsically steady state and extract power as surface heating, permitting a thin walled vacuum vessel and eliminating the need for a massive neutron shield. We find that a dipole based D-D power source can potentially provide a substantially better utilization of magnetic field energy with a comparable mass power density as compared to a D-T based tokamak power source.

www.thelivingmoon.com...

All ya need to do is pop up to the mone for a ton or two of HE3

Originally posted by zorgon
Well I know of mercury based plasma.. but it uses mercury vapor. And there are old rumors of the NAZI tech using mercury in some way on those rumored UFO's they were making..

Yes I know of mercury vapor plasma too, and how do we get that?

By doing exactly the OPPOSITE of Fouche's claim, with higher temperature and/or lower pressure.

Fouche's mercury based plasma is at low temperature and high pressure, so we can rule out mercury vapor plasma under those conditions.

Originally posted by Aim64C
I've said it before countless times, and I'll say it again:


You don't test this stuff over cities. If you put it against your own air defense systems (or those of other nations), you don't do it near cities.

Think about the real black projects that have gone on - the F-117, B-2, etc. There were reports of strange triangle aircraft flying over the Nevada desert - not Houston, Berlin, etc.

Well...MOST of the time, you can't just look up and spot them. They are very difficult to see without a camera of some type. Most people would look up in the direction of one hovering in daylight and not even notice anything. It's when they move that they can be spotted. Besides, once they are over a populated you can bet it is not the maiden flight. They usually take them out for a spin at night, or on cloudy days.

reply to post by LSWONE


You all make it sound like there is a whole battalion of these things flying around out there. "Black" aircraft tend to have a population hard-cap at two. For whatever reason, when you start making more than about two of anything, the entire project and concept becomes public knowledge. I'm not even old enough to remember the F-19 craze that swept the nation - and while artist impressions didn't often come close to the actual shape of the aircraft - the mission and relative capabilities of the aircraft were spot-on from the aviation community and the rumors they compiled together.

The same with the B-2. Once they started entering production, the cat was out of the bag. That means once you're done with the prototype stage and need to involve 50x the amount of people in the project to meet quote, there's no way to conceal its existence.

Real aircraft leave ruts at the end of the runway, so to speak. Someone has to be building this thing. "The government?" They have no experience prototyping and producing anything but failure. Even the contracting methods they use are an exercise in failure. There would be a defense contractor involved - a civilian-industry link. It wouldn't be hard to find out where they were being built - hell, everyone knew where the F-117 was being built (even if they didn't know it by that designation) - the average aviation buff in the U.S. knew more about it than the KGB, in all irony.

So, where are they being built? What evidence can be collected that suggests anything of this nature is being built there (or anything of a suspicious nature is happening)? Don't tell me you can't do it because they are uber-1337 military, either. If they are digging tunnels to transport materials, the dirt has to go somewhere. The energy they are using has to come from somewhere, the people have to come from somewhere.

Also, real aircraft have a service life. This TR3 doohickey has been floating around in the skies with the Aurora for about the entirety of my life. Considering other aircraft of that nature (stealth and research/prototype) - that's a hell of a black-ops service life. It's practically been in service as long as the F-117.

Doing... what?

Flying along river beds? Inciting eruptions of the local and national media?

ORM. Operational Risk Management.

Technology of that magnitude, if it is possessed by our military, would -never- be allowed to see service over any unsecured zone. Do you have ANY clue what the implications would be if there was an error in any number of systems (or the pilot(s))? It would be akin to sneaking crack into a drug-rehab facility and being caught with it by the tenants. You would never use it over a city simply because of the absolute chaos that would follow the "impossible" crash.

Flying it over hostile territory... people who would certainly recover and utilize that technology if given the chance? .... The only better idea I can come up with is to make a bunch of autonomous combat drones and give the network access codes out to countries we have diplomatic tensions with.

I'm sure people are seeing something out there. Some are probably some natural phenomena that will turn physics on its head when finally observed, classified, and experimented upon. Others are likely any number of other aircraft of both 'conventional' and 'black' origins. There's also the possibility that we are dealing with craft of ET origin in some of the cases reported and attributed to the TR3.

But this TR-3B phenomena is not a sole craft of human origin/development. When you step back and take in all of the known factors, there's no convincing argument for the TR-3B. Eyewitness testimony? Maybe they saw something - maybe they didn't. I've caught too many people in bold-faced lies intent on impressing others or myself to believe any testimony that makes the assertion they are somehow privileged with "above top secret" anything. I'm sure there are many who have legitimately seen something they can't explain. I'm also sure there are many people out there who will tell you anything you are willing to believe for their own sense of entertainment.

Originally posted by Aim64C
reply to post by LSWONE

 

So, where are they being built? What evidence can be collected that suggests anything of this nature is being built there (or anything of a suspicious nature is happening)? Don't tell me you can't do it because they are uber-1337 military, either.

So do you have any idea what may happen if you are near the flight line of a testing facility and holding a camera? You know they don't mess around about that! There is a red line painted that basically threatens you if you cross it without authorization.

As for all the people involved, there are a good amount maintaining them and building them. There are even safety crews that need to be on standby when some things land. Yes, there are fire crews and such that usually are on the runway waiting for some test or high profile vehicles to land. They are all under binding contracts to not pass along any information about what they deal with. I bet the pay checks are nice too!

Originally posted by LSWONE

Originally posted by Aim64C
reply to post by LSWONE

 

So, where are they being built? What evidence can be collected that suggests anything of this nature is being built there (or anything of a suspicious nature is happening)? Don't tell me you can't do it because they are uber-1337 military, either.

So do you have any idea what may happen if you are near the flight line of a testing facility and holding a camera? You know they don't mess around about that! There is a red line painted that basically threatens you if you cross it without authorization.

I went across one such line on the way to boot-camp. We PTed on that "line" (next to one of the signs) when I was in Pensacola. There is a 'red line' for 'authorized personnel only' and 'use of deadly force authorized' just about everywhere. It's to scare people away who think the government knows everything and we have ninjas guarding every base that will pop up behind you the moment you see something you're not supposed to.

It is annoyingly effective, as evidenced by most of the threads on these forums.

I will ask again - where are they testing/building these things? There are direct and indirect means of observation. An aircraft flies WELL outside the range of practical security methods - especially this thing, since people have seen it all over the damned world and doing everything down-town short of clothes shopping. When my grandfather was on the Highway Patrol in Franklin County, MO (Near St. Louis) - they were given training on how to deal with downed aircraft back when McDonnel-Douglas was doing tests out in that direction. The military (contracting the development of these aircraft) could not adequately secure the air and ground-space for these tests and had to rely on local and state law enforcement as first-responders and to secure the site.

So - the probability of someone catching you with a camera along any one of the potential approaches/departures is rather low (unless you are being stupid about it). You're not walking up to the fence with a camera in your hand - you're looking for areas with a decent view of the airspace and amongst other people. If they are so careless as to fly one of these over densely populated urban areas (when other - far less sophisticated - aircraft such as the F-117 were never flown over urban areas during development) - then they will probably not bat an eye at buzzing the local inn.

That's direct.

Indirect - supplies. Find the truck stops in the area, get to talking with truckers, and start asking about the "ghost fleet." See if they comment on activity in the area. Others may make comments about cargo through the region. Or, just have you and some friends keep your eyes out for what is going in and out of the suspect base. Obviously - you can't know what is inside of a closed vehicle - but any base involved in actively developing new stuff is going to be seeing more supplies per capita than other bases. Chances are - you're not going to find anything incriminating - but you can use that to figure out if you're looking in the right place.

That local diner/inn? If there are pilots, they have a whole room or section dedicated to them in one. They would not have pictures of them standing next to a secret aircraft - but there would be a cover squadron (or, in the case of this thing - a whole fictional battalion) they would use.

Security of these things is not about creating an iron curtain. It simply cannot be done. It instead relies on the illusion that nothing is out of the ordinary and/or that Big Brother is just around the corner. This is the problem with the UFO/conspiracy community at large - their lack of foot-work. Sure - there are classified projects that are ongoing and even the most general details are kept classified (such as pictures of the approved design for a flight demonstrator). However, nothing can be kept so secure as to remain concealed amidst competent scrutiny.

Am I advising people to 'storm the gate?' No. I'm also not encouraging anyone to try and extract classified information (that was classified for good reason). However, I am saying that you are well within your rights as citizens and tax payers to observe what is going on around you in your own country. You have the right to communicate amongst yourselves and coordinate. I would rather see effective, competent scrutiny of government/military programs/projects as opposed to slanderous "they have secret stuff but we can't prove it because of their uber-1337 ninjas" speculation.

It's lazy. It's the idea that someone is going to hand you a solution on a platter and finding excuses as to why you should never have to do any of the real work. You won't find the complete answers to your questions about aircraft we're working on - you're not going to be able to dig 'too deep' if you keep your activity legal, you're not going to uncover anything that is going to cause us to lose a war somewhere. It's not going to be the "idiot's guide to FTL" - but it will be real information.

As for all the people involved, there are a good amount maintaining them and building them. There are even safety crews that need to be on standby when some things land. Yes, there are fire crews and such that usually are on the runway waiting for some test or high profile vehicles to land. They are all under binding contracts to not pass along any information about what they deal with. I bet the pay checks are nice too!

Where are they? What company employs them? How do those people live? If they have outstanding debts, they are likely not part of a top-secret program (would you be willing to sing songs of secret projects to people willing to pay you for it if you had a wife and kids to feed and no money to do it?). What is their work schedule like?

What about compartmentalization? If this is on a "normal" base - does the janitor also know about it? Probably not - so we have to assume this is not going to be able to be utilized from a normal facility and would, instead, be at a special climate (such as Groom Lake) - where the focus is keeping people (working on "above top secret programs") from seeing other projects (also "above top secret"). If so - then how do we get all of the stories about this thing's function? How do we compare it to knowledge of other, similar programs (such as the F-117, B-2, SR-71, U-2, etc)? We didn't have people giving us an in-depth lecture on how the F-117 achieved "invisibility" from radar before we even knew what it looked like. Nor did we with the B-2. No one has come forth allegedly claiming to know how to make radar-absorbing-material, or even how the thermal management system within the B-2 works (or did you all even know about that?). Why should someone within a project with a much greater reason for secrecy come forward with the mechanics of a much more advanced craft? Where were the championed whistle-blowers talking nonsense of a titanium SR-71?

If much less 'important' projects didn't have the same amount of detail leaking from them... why should you accept, so blindly, the excruciating detail these people "in the know" claim to have?

Originally posted by Aim64C
Where are they? What company employs them? How do those people live?

It's sometime hilarious to listen to long posts when the answers are literally in front of your nose. Would you even know if you were talking to someone who works on such projects?

Where are they? Edwards, Kirtland Lake, China Lake to name a few.

I hear the Naval Space Command tests out of Yuma Az.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

What Company? Lockheed Martin Skunk Works, Boeing Phantom works, the US NAVY, even NASA



How do they live? Well those paychecks and pensions are very nice

What about compartmentalization? If this is on a "normal" base - does the janitor also know about it?

Well don't know about the janitor, but the 'painter' who applies that stealth coating to the new secret space planes to make them 'harder to see' is not allowed to see into the cockpit or the engines. Makes it hard for him to do his job, but he cannot even take his tools home... I hear that 'paint' costs $16,500.00 per 5 gallon pail

But hey what do I know :lol;

Why should someone within a project with a much greater reason for secrecy come forward with the mechanics of a much more advanced craft? Where were the championed whistle-blowers talking nonsense of a titanium SR-71?

That is a good question I asked Ed that myself, but he is going on vacation for 10 days.

No one is accepting anything blindly, well accept what LSWONE says him I can trust

Anyway you can see Ed's material here, since he has come out of retirement

Former Area 51 Employee Ed Fouche
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Aim64C
Where are they? What company employs them? How do those people live?

It's sometime hilarious to listen to long posts when the answers are literally in front of your nose. Would you even know if you were talking to someone who works on such projects?

Generally speaking, no. They don't wear signs or talk about what they do, because they've signed an 80-year long NDA.

Where are they? Edwards, Kirtland Lake, China Lake to name a few.

Edwards? Seriously - see compartmentalization.

Kirtland Lake? See compartmentalization.

China Lake? Again, see compartmentalization. Nothing so classified as to not even exist in publicly disclosed rosters and funding -ever- flies in or out of those bases. Never has, never will. It's not the climate for it.

I hear the Naval Space Command tests out of Yuma Az.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Naval space command, huh?

www.globalsecurity.org...

Which would now be STRATCOM.

This would be what Naval Space Command did during their command life: www.fas.org...

Anyway, Yuma is a Marine Corps facility - not that it would be strange for any other branch to operate out of it. However... www.yuma.usmc.mil... - There's a few too many people to see stuff they are not supposed to. It's kind of hard to conceal what is moving around over the top of a military base... it's like it's a small city filled with people or something.

Put simply - they are not testing an aircraft qualifying as a TR-3B out of that air base. Period.

What Company? Lockheed Martin Skunk Works, Boeing Phantom works, the US NAVY, even NASA

Nasa? They are a gaping security leak. They may be on government pay-roll and test some sophisticated and specialized gear, but the military tries to have as little to do with them as possible. However, you haven't a clue who the prime contractor is, who the benefactor is, or who is on as a sub-contractor. You're guessing and throwing out popular names.

How do they live? Well those paychecks and pensions are very nice

As an E-5 with four years of service, I'd be making more than my father made after building his career for well over 20 years. I don't work on such projects, and don't expect anyone working in those fields under the military pay system get any additional pays or allowances. Contractor wages are likely competitive for the position and its requirements.

Of course - you're missing the whole point, here. Where are their homes? Where is the evidence they are getting paid more? What evidence is there that people working on these projects should expect more? Have employees working on previous restricted access programs received payment above and beyond the industry and regional standard for their job?

What about compartmentalization? If this is on a "normal" base - does the janitor also know about it?

Well don't know about the janitor, but the 'painter' who applies that stealth coating to the new secret space planes to make them 'harder to see' is not allowed to see into the cockpit or the engines. Makes it hard for him to do his job, but he cannot even take his tools home... I hear that 'paint' costs $16,500.00 per 5 gallon pail

RAM is made of very temperature-sensitive polymers unsuited to re-entry velocities and conditions. It is also unlikely it would survive acceleration to escape velocities. However, it is very expensive - exactly how expensive and whether or not the bill issued to the tax-payers is 'fair' is impossible to determine.

"But this stuff is new" - Any "paint" is not going to survive re-entry - even if it could, physically, its function would be negated by carbon deposits. RAM works in a number of ways - one of which is to diffuse the reflected radar return as much as possible. If you were to apply the same principle to optics, it would be like shining a laser onto a dark surface that then proceeded to glow very faintly, as opposed to produce a sharp reflection. Sparing a long talk about physics, radar, and other such inconveniences for conspiracies - attempting to use RAM on anything that will be exposed to re-entry temperatures is a waste of time and resources, as it won't function properly after being 'clogged' by carbon deposits (which, while not a strong radar reflector, carbon would still compromise that particular technology to a degree where its effectiveness would be negligible).

But hey what do I know :lol;

A question you, and many others, here should be asking themselves more often. What DO you know? That you've encountered a few tall tales on the internet. These stories don't even collaborate each other, 90% of the time unless they are virtually line-for-line copies of some other person's story.

Why should someone within a project with a much greater reason for secrecy come forward with the mechanics of a much more advanced craft? Where were the championed whistle-blowers talking nonsense of a titanium SR-71?

That is a good question I asked Ed that myself, but he is going on vacation for 10 days.

No one is accepting anything blindly, well accept what LSWONE says

him I can trust

Anyway you can see Ed's material here, since he has come out of retirement

Former Area 51 Employee Ed Fouche
www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 11-10-2010 by zorgon because: Classified

....

Really?

See: Compartmentalization. You're one special dude to have privileged information of multiple projects going on within that type of command climate. If you're that special dude, and that information turns up on the outside - you're getting a -special- knock on your door.

"But he's safe if he's public - if something happens, we know it's true." - Doesn't matter. It's not -you- 'they' want to keep in the dark. It's every other country on the planet that would be rushing to build their own UFOs or whatever. As they are decidedly more competent at espionage and research than most ATS enthusiasts are - it's likely they could figure out what was truth and what was not, regardless of how the U.S. responds. At that point - the damage has been done, and the types that are in charge of bringing spies in will not give a damned if the apprehension is live on national television - they will nail him. At that point, it's the principle, not to keep him from revealing more.

I want to believe we have UFOs, too. I'm not opposed to the idea that we do. However - it's nonsense to suggest we've got some massive operation that is ongoing and completely "in the black." Sure - you can argue the Manhattan Project, but anyone with half a brain living in the area could have taken out a map and placed a tack on the complex and said: "something is DEFINITELY going on there!" Like you could do with the Groom Lake facility.

Originally posted by Aim64C
Generally speaking, no. They don't wear signs or talk about what they do, because they've signed an 80-year long NDA.

Well some do wear signs and they are allowed to talk about things NOT related to their compartment. And some even wear avatars

Edwards? Seriously - see compartmentalization.

Its easier to just sit out in the desert near Edwards and look UP.

Nothing so classified as to not even exist in publicly disclosed rosters and funding -ever- flies in or out of those bases. Never has, never will. It's not the climate for it.

I don't look in public areas I lurk around .mil site

Naval space command, huh?

Yup

www.moneymaker.com...



But hey we all have our own belief systems

The NAVY also runs HAARP and Bob Lazar's paytub from Area 51 was NAVY

GO NAVY!!!

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Aim64C
Generally speaking, no. They don't wear signs or talk about what they do, because they've signed an 80-year long NDA.

Well some do wear signs

and they are allowed to talk about things NOT related to their compartment. And some even wear avatars

That's not really how it goes. There is a thing called operational security, and common sense application thereof. I worked in Korea for a short time handling joint communications between the US and ROK Navies - obviously, that stuff is classified secret. I also saw a number of other things completely unrelated to my job and clearance that could land me in hot water if I were to talk about them and someone in Intel care enough about it to track it all back - things like the defensive layout of the base, some specifics on theater contingencies, etc.

If you work in such a high-profile facility (with regards to restricted access programs), it goes without saying that you are not allowed to talk about anything you see there, there are catch-alls worded into the NDA you sign.

Edwards? Seriously - see compartmentalization.

Its easier to just sit out in the desert near Edwards and look UP.

Perhaps you could go there and look up with a camera adequate for capturing an image of what it is you expect me to see.

"normal" bases don't mess with programs that are so restricted that the number of people who know of its existence is deliberately kept to a minimum. The only exceptions are when you have specwar groups making modifications to off-the-shelf stuff - it might look like a Predator drone, but it's outfitted for a completely different role. Since we don't have flying triangle doohickeys as part of the standard arsenal, it's kind of hard to fit their operations in alongside bases filled with thousands of people and still keep their existence secret.

Nothing so classified as to not even exist in publicly disclosed rosters and funding -ever- flies in or out of those bases. Never has, never will. It's not the climate for it.

I don't look in public areas I lurk around .mil site

.mil sites are public. The closest you can get would be (for the navy) NMCI, BUPERS, or the other personnel management sites within NIPRNET - you can access those from the public network, but you're not going to be running into 'shady' stuff there. You're not even going to have access (not that you could find anything if you did... it's a mess... improving... but a mess).

And I'm fairly certain you're not "surfing the SIPRNET"

Naval space command, huh?

Yup

www.moneymaker.com...

But hey we all have our own belief systems

It's not about belief systems. It's about facts. The U.S. Naval Space Command was absorbed into STRATCOM back in 2002. Why? Because it seemed someone finally got the right idea and decided to merge satellite intelligence networks to simplify dissemination of information to the different branches of the military.

Let's review the RADM's reported service, here:

"In 1982, Rear Admiral Moneymaker reported to VA-147, making two West Pacific deployments amassing a career total of over 3,000 flight hours in the A-7. VFA-195 was transitioning from the A-7 to the F/A-18 when Rear Admiral Moneymaker reported as executive officer in May 1985. He graduated from Navy Flight Weapons School (TOPGUN) in February 1986 and in October he assumed command of the Dambusters, leading the squadron to Japan once again flying from the deck of USS Midway. In 1987, VFA-195 was selected as recipient of the Estocin Award, marking the Dambusters as the best Strikefighter Squadron in the Navy.

Following this command, Read Admiral Moneymaker was chosen to command the Naval Flight Demonstration Squadron, the Blue Angels. He led the team through the 1989 and 1990 seasons. Rear Admiral Moneymaker was then ordered to CVW-14 as the Airwing Commander. During his tour the airwing flew the flight decks of USS Independence (CV62) and USS Midway. Subsequently, he served as director, Command and Control Warfare Division (N64) on the OPNAV staff. Rear Admiral Moneymaker served as director for command, control, communications, computers and intelligence systems (J-6) for United States Strategic Command, Offutt Air Force Base, Neb., prior to assuming command of Naval Space Command in February 1997."

He built a strong history of leadership and demonstrated his proficiency with his staff. Though it doesn't say, I imagine he was distanced from the aviation community after achieving O-5 or O-6, and when he became the director of a C3 division within STRATCOM. Then he became commander of the Navy's version of Strategic Command, before it was then absorbed back into its roots.

Also, note that it's current to 1997 - you realize that's 13 years ago, right? Active duty changes of command are usually anywhere from two to four years, depending upon the command. He probably was not even in command when it was merged back into STRATCOM.

The NAVY also runs HAARP and Bob Lazar's paytub from Area 51 was NAVY

... Okay?

Since HAARP's mission is to research interactions between the earth's ionosphere and radio waves (communications), and the mission of the Navy often involves sending information across 70% of Earth's surface area (water)... this might make sense as to why they would build and operate such a facility.

As for Groom Lake - it was originally a CIA facility. Like just about any military facility, it is likely staffed and maintained by a variety of branches and civilian contractors. To my knowledge - Civilian contractors do not receive payment from any specific branch. Most are paid from their contracting company. There are some who are employed, directly, into civilian pay-rates - but they have (for as long as I am aware) been paid by and assigned to the DoD, not the branch of service (even though they may work exclusively with one branch).

I believe Mr. Lazar is pulling your leg.

GO NAVY!!!

Well, at least we agree on something. Hooya!

Since we agree on one thing - I'll give you a cookie:

www.public.navy.mil...

Originally posted by Aim64C
Perhaps you could go there and look up with a camera adequate for capturing an image of what it is you expect me to see.

Nah I will leave that to LSWONE

And I'm fairly certain you're not "surfing the SIPRNET"

You mean at nic dot mil? Nah thought never crossed my mind

www.public.navy.mil...

Thanks... been there several times.. have a different door though... They did close the 'enterprise' link though

Now seeing as your so gung ho about the TR3B maybe you should pop in over here
Former Area 51 Employee Ed Fouche
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Ed's back 'in the circuit' and we are promised real evidence this time

If you want to give me a cookie drop me a 'hint' where the Navy keeps their Sea Launch platform

The black triangles are not nuclear powered.

Their power is supplied by nothing more than a electrical generator.

They are advanced "air" ships and they are capable of high speeds but nothing more than a jet will do.

Usually they do nothing more than creep along just like they have been seen.

They just appear to travel faster because of their close proximity to the ground and their size.

The "Phoenix Lights" event was nothing more than a demonstration display for those who helped create the technology that led to their inception.

The company behind the technology is based in Phoenix,at least the division that created it is.

They are all piloted by and were built by contractors probably for Lockheed/Martin and or BAE.Systems.

Only a small few military know the truth behind these craft.

Anybody with a little intelligence can figure out what these craft actually are.

DARPA came up with the concept a long time ago.

Check this link out and use your imagination.

reply to post by zorgon

Nah I will leave that to LSWONE

This is the problem with the UFO/Aurora/secret-government crowd. You lack cohesion, structure, mission, and planning. You know - like the research teams put together to go look for "Big Foot." There's a difference between those who are willing to seek the truth, and those who are content to congregate amongst similar delusions.

Places like ATS should be a hub for the coordination of research teams that do more than just trawl through google.

I'm more curious at investigating other places and see no evidence that convinces me this TR3 nonsense is real. I can get up and make up a story about how I saw this and that and the other and could create enough of my own "physics beyond what you are taught in school" to explain everything in a way that cannot be outright proven or debunked. It's like Lazar's claim of the 'island of stability' - while there are, indeed, some elements that appear to have better prospects for stability - it's only in the context of having half-lives longer than a few microseconds. Now that we have actually synthesized a few of those elements in particle accelerators (something we couldn't do 20 years ago), we know it's highly probable he is just telling tales from school.

Plasma-physics is in that same realm. We do not have the raw power and control necessary to put many of this man's claims to the test. You can claim specialized pre-market solutions would make it possible, but so would recovered alien technology, magic, and any other list of things that prohibit the rest of us from actually being able to test the alleged mechanics.

And here's the kicker - he should know how this stuff works - be privy to technology and capabilities well beyond current market offers. A -smart- person would either create a business, or join a smaller company based in another country and use their knowledge of advanced systems to leverage a pretty nice job in the R&D department. Market dynamics dictate it would all eventually become common knowledge and mankind would benefit from the advances.

Unless... it doesn't work. Then you make a few extra bucks in the entertainment career.

I could be wrong - maybe these people are genuinely motivated by the idea that these things should be broadcast to the public. Maybe they really did work on these things. Or maybe they are sincere in believing they worked on one of those, and are just delusional.

Or - perhaps there's another reason. Disinformation - with a purpose. In the Cold War - any time we caught a rumor that the Russians were developing a program to accomplish X or Y, we would start a similar program (and vice-versa). Now, the general idea of disinformation is simply to waste your opponent's resources in chasing programs that don't exist and spending their own trying to make something fundamentally flawed. However - when you include borderline science and technology - there's a potential benefit.

"The control unit of this new super-top-secret airplane is a light-computer, it uses photon semiconductors as opposed to electron semiconductors." - Boom, China starts up a program to develop such a system, because the Americans have it (or are at least working on it). We use their attempts to probe into our non-existent program to tap into their program, and now we piggy-back on their research investment.

There are many options out there to choose from - I'm of the opinion this guy (and others like him) just like the attention and like to feel special. When you think about it for a minute - these guys worked for years in a job they could never tell their own wives - let alone the world at large. I'm sure they did some pretty cool stuff - stuff they should be proud of, and stuff that is of the level that they should be able to tell people. It's a lot of pressure not being able to tell people what you really do, what you've really accomplished, etc. Some of the things these guys accomplish is far more important than discovering aliens or making anti-gravity - but the average person doesn't jump up and down over new encryption or compression algorithms, superconductivity, catalyst enzymes, network protocols, etc. Antigravity and cloak&dagger mischief with aliens, on the other hand, is something anyone can get hot over, and filled with all of the suspense and drama people have come to expect out of "Top Secret" projects.

You mean at nic dot mil? Nah thought never crossed my mind

*yawn* Unless you have a DoD CAC with appropriate encryption certificates and identification, like mine right here *holds up ID* - you don't get access. Not to mention you also have to be operating from a DoD domain - IE - from a DoD computer. It also wouldn't surprise me if you have to be an authorized user (part of the encryption certificates on the ID) to see or do much of anything.

Not to mention that's NIPR - for unclassified information, only. SIPR (for classified information) is generally held completely separate (physically) from NIPR, except for in special occasions where SIPR can be tunneled over NIPR with encryption.

It's pretty safe to say you're not "browsing" anything. Telling tall tales may get you attention in school - but it doesn't get you any friends.

Thanks... been there several times.. have a different door though... They did close the 'enterprise' link though

Right - you're some uber-1337 hacker.

Ed's back 'in the circuit' and we are promised real evidence this time

As opposed to taking some screen-shots of your covert expeditions into DoD servers.

If you're going to paint a bulls-eye on your face by going around claiming to exploit or hack into servers that are clearly marked off-limits to unauthorized personnel (IE - trespassing on clearly marked and forbidden territory) - you may as well make your sacrifice worth it.

With as many security crack-downs as we've been having DoD-wide, as of late, you're doing a dangerous thing, indeed - whether you're telling tales or not - you're doing the akin of talking about shooting kids at school right after columbine, blowing up buildings/planes/people after 9/11, or how much you love and like working with children in an interview with any reporter.

If you want to give me a cookie drop me a 'hint' where the Navy keeps their Sea Launch platform

Never heard of it.
www.sea-launch.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

Apparently, not a Navy project that has filed for bankruptcy. You're barking up the wrong tree.

reply to post by Aim64C

This is the problem with the UFO/Aurora/secret-government crowd. You lack cohesion, structure, mission, and planning. You know - like the research teams put together to go look for "Big Foot." There's a difference between those who are willing to seek the truth, and those who are content to congregate amongst similar delusions.

Places like ATS should be a hub for the coordination of research teams that do more than just trawl through google.

I think people have tried to reverse-engineer the underlying principles of the TR-3B and ARV Flux liner but those attempts get co-opted by COINTELPRO agents. Maybe these attempts don't originate at ATS, there don't appear to be forums on ATS dedicated to creating and organizing projects and even if there were I would imagine any promising ones would be infiltrated by COINTELPRO agents.

The RAM project by Gordon Novel was supposedly dedicated to reverse-engineering the ARV flux liner. I think that project, if it wasn't a scam from the get go by Mr. Novel (apologies if it was not), was infiltrated by COINTELPRO agents. Gordon Novel released a book on the project and shortly after suffered a heart attack. Was this a heart attack caused by natural causes? Or was this a heart attack caused by a poison the CIA has as was stated in Congressional testimony watchable on Youtube? Probably depends on whether Gordon was on the right track or not. It is impossible to tell.

I wrote a previous post on Hal Puthoff, a former Naval officer and NSA employee and in a sense the father of ZPE theory.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I have a suspicion that Bigelow is being infiltrated by COINTELPRO, specifically Hal Puthoff.

Hal Puthoff supposedly left the RAM project, a project to reverse engineer the ARV revealed at Greer's Disclosure Project, to go work at Bigelow.

When Puthoff was in the Navy he worked at the NSA. He then proceeded to work for the NSA after he got out of the Navy. He went on later to work on classified projects involving Remote Viewing.

Hal Puthoff contributed to the book UFOs Exempt From Disclosure The Black World of UFOs co-authored by known hoaxer and likely Air Force Intellgience agent Richard C. Doty. Puthoff again worked with Doty on the now proven hoax of SERPO that Doty was behind.

Puthoff founded IASA an organization dedicated to researching new energy technologies. He went to Europe to meet with Martin Tajmar who found anomalous results in rotating superconductors. Puthoff apparently convinced Tajmar to work with him at IASA to conduct further studies which are now all on hold (keeping Tajmar in a holding pattern to stop him from doing further research perhaps?).

Puthoff was one of the main science guys involved with figuring out how to reverse engineer the ARV in the RAM project and that has went nowhere (perhps Puthoff was feeding the group disinformation to keep the group on the wrong track and in a holding pattern?).

Now Puthoff is working at Bigelow just as Bigelow is getting serious in trying to figure out alien and new propulsion technologies, I can't help but think Puthoff's joined Bigelow to feed them disinformation, keep them on the wrong track, keep them in a holding pattern.

I have now even begun to think that ZPE is total bunk, perpetrated on the scientific and UFO communities. If Puthoff is still working for the Navy, NSA, or other organization or in a SAP it begs the question whether or not any of the "science" he has espoused is straight up disinformation.

Originally posted by Aim64C

Nah I will leave that to LSWONE

This is the problem with the UFO/Aurora/secret-government crowd. You lack cohesion, structure, mission, and planning.

Well for a spook you miss the point a lot... LSWONE works 'in the field' I really do love your posts... but sometimes I wonder your motives... You mention Lazar who has been out of the circuit for some time. But it is Ed Fouche who is presenting the TR3-B not me so perhaps your words would be better placed there

Former Area 51 Employee Ed Fouche
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Now when did I say I browse at SiPRNET

What I said was

You mean at nic dot mil? Nah thought never crossed my mind

I do however have contacts who do have such access Now about that CAC card you have, mind if I see it? I mean after all anyone could create something like that good enough to pass off on the internet, right?



not that I doubt you, BTW, but as you say anyone with a little smarts can build a good story and find many facts in documents to support it. Funny thing is I have someone that has the same name as me, about the same age as me, who works at Lockheed Martin skunkworks and holds several secret patents... I only found out due to a confusion of names when someone wrote me. Now how cool is that?



ATS as a hub for real researchers Great idea and I think that was the goal... once upon a time...

And here's the kicker - he should know how this stuff works - be privy to technology and capabilities well beyond current market offers. A -smart- person would either create a business, or join a smaller company based in another country and use their knowledge of advanced systems to leverage a pretty nice job in the R&D department. Market dynamics dictate it would all eventually become common knowledge and mankind would benefit from the advances.

Yeah kinda like Buzz Aldrin became senior science advisor and partner of Gravwave LLC, a company working on anti gravity and gravity waves with the Chinese... Seem to recall someone else telling us about gravity waves hmmmm forget now...

Or - perhaps there's another reason. Disinformation - with a purpose.

Oh yes without a doubt... but the BIG question is WHO is disinfo and who is trying to leak out some good info? With all the in fighting and calling each others stories BS how do you even begin to sort it all out?

It's all well and good for a spook such as yourself with a CAC card access to SiPRNET (accepted without proof ) to make such statement, but most here at AST don't have that luxury and must 'speculate' with the snippets we can find.

Unless of course, your willing to give us a nice juicy tidbit that won't get you a visit to that nice vacation resort the CIA runs.

No? Hmmmm well you can no more DISPROVE the TR3-B than those who say they worked on it can PROVE it. And the caveat is, that IF you knew it existed, you wouldn't be able to even speak of it

When you think about it for a minute - these guys worked for years in a job they could never tell their own wives - let alone the world at large. I'm sure they did some pretty cool stuff - stuff they should be proud of, and stuff that is of the level that they should be able to tell people. It's a lot of pressure not being able to tell people what you really do, what you've really accomplished, etc. Some of the things these guys accomplish is far more important than discovering aliens or making anti-gravity - but the average person doesn't jump up and down over new encryption or compression algorithms, superconductivity, catalyst enzymes, network protocols, etc. Antigravity and cloak† mischief with aliens, on the other hand, is something anyone can get hot over, and filled with all of the suspense and drama people have come to expect out of "Top Secret" projects.

Well you will find that many here are interested in other tech. I want more info on the encryption or compression algorithms used on the Mars Rovers but your right, those topics don't attract the skeptics... nothing to debunk, so the threads fade away into oblivion

Right - you're some uber-1337 hacker.

Nope never hacked anything... just have friends in high places that send me stuff. or more to the point, point me in the right direction and give me the right question to ask

As opposed to taking some screen-shots of your covert expeditions into DoD servers.

Nope only screen shot I ever showed was the NASA document server and I was given an access password to retrieve a file by the author of that file

If you're going to paint a bulls-eye on your face by going around claiming to exploit or hack into servers that are clearly marked off-limits to unauthorized personnel (IE - trespassing on clearly marked and forbidden territory) - you may as well make your sacrifice worth it.

Well there you go again Herr Spook, making assumptions with no basis in fact... does that not make your motives as suspect as those you debunk? As to target, well I already had a 'visit' spent 3 days 'chatting' (and yes he had proper ID and even parking decals on his windshield) I survived to tell about it

With as many security crack-downs as we've been having DoD-wide, as of late, you're doing a dangerous thing, indeed - whether you're telling tales or not - you're doing the akin of talking about shooting kids at school right after columbine, blowing up buildings/planes/people after 9/11, or how much you love and like working with children in an interview with any reporter.

Well Herr Spook... if that were true, then why do those I contact at many DoD sites seem so very helpful at getting me the information I seek? Naturally nothing classified, to be sure, but then as YOU say, that stuff isn't on this net anyway and as YOU say .mil sites are public. In fact many of them make real pretty websites.

Not hard to file an FOIA, though it is tedious to be sure, but seriously, I find them to be very helpful

One request to a NASA librarian resulted in that person sending my request 'up the line' Got 6 different replies to that one letter, one from NASA and 5 others from various agencies. The final one came from USArmy-SMDC in Huntsville providing me with the location of said files and how I could get them

Declassified, but where does the public see this stuff unless someone like me does the legwork

Never heard of it.
Apparently, not a Navy project that has filed for bankruptcy.

Really?
See: Compartmentalization.

That is the Boeing/Energia joint venture. Not the one I am looking for. You quoting wikipedia? Now then Herr Spook which three letter club did you say that card was from?

I already have the Radar platform, just need the launch platform



Image courtesy of the Missile Defence Agency
www.mda.mil...

and the US NAVY
Sea-Based X-Band Radar Arrives in Pearl Harbor
www.navy.mil...

I will eventually find the one I seek