History of Un-armed Citizens

reply to post by Boston Tea Party


Just a point of clarification, I did not call NRA members racists. I was implying that this talk of Obama looking to "ban guns" smacks of racism. And yes, I happened to "play the race card" here, as I was the one who actually brought this into the discussion. However, I do believe that race is a factor. I am by the way a white male aged 33.

I make this argument simply from life experience. There are a lot of rednecks out there, which are uneducated. A lot of these rednecks are the Christian right, pro gun, rural, uneducated, and racists. I happen to have a wife who works with a whole bunch of them, and I have run across them myself. They are the same people that believe that Obama is the anti-christ, and feared what would happen when he took office. As if he would declare in his first week that whites were now going to be slaves or something.

They are also the same people who believe that he is a Muslim, and that he wants to do all kind of extremely ridiculous things, all of which are completely unfounded. I know where this fear stems from, and it is from the fact that the playing field has been increasingly leveled. In large part due to reforms to our once segrated society. They fear that they will no longer be entitled to things simply because they are white, and their own ignorance fuels their insecurities.

I know that I am painting with a broad brush her, and realize there are certainly exceptions to the stereotype. However, I will tell you that in certain, mostly rural locations, this unfounded fear manifests into all type of fear mongering rhetoric perpetuated by this demographic as a lightening rod to galvanize support for Obama-bashing.

I'm personally just fed up with all the fear, and ignorance. Obama may prove to be one of the worst presidents ever, however I believe he may prove to be just what this country needs before we completely fall into the abyss. I think he is playing with the cards stacked against him, however, I am impressed with how he has seems to be tackling the hard issues our country is facing head on, and for the most part is at least attempting to by inclusive instead of divisive in in to building support.

Around the world, the image of the gun-loving, under-educated, aggressive, narcissistic, fat and ugly American is personified by the previous administration, and precisely why the Obama administration has been welcomed with such open-arms. The world needs the U.S. to lead by building bridges to our ever increasingly global community. This should be our focus, and the doomsayers, and apocalyptic conspiracy theorists, simply make us look ignorant in the eyes of the world.

Blaine:

Would you consider it a fair trade after the super-majority that the Republicans enjoyed for most of Bush's tenure?

Good grief.

I feel bad for America, born and raised on gun culture. you can't see it any other way. In Canada, guns aren't as big an issue because no one has them and we aren't raised with them in the household. It's not necessary for our society to protect itself with weapons. It's something we've moved beyond. I don't see why Americans can't follow suit. It's like you have this drug that you are all addicted to and can't give it up.

reply to post by buttafuqua


I, for one, would like to see the generalizing stop!

You have brought it up on two fronts. I see your agenda.
If we can't get over this petty crap for even ONE DISCUSSION about something completely unrelated to racism, we will never get over it as a society.

Originally posted by buttafuqua
reply to post by Boston Tea Party

 

Around the world, the image of the gun-loving, under-educated, aggressive, narcissistic, fat and ugly American is personified by the previous administration, and precisely why the Obama administration has been welcomed with such open-arms. The world needs the U.S. to lead by building bridges to our ever increasingly global community. This should be our focus, and the doomsayers, and apocalyptic conspiracy theorists, simply make us look ignorant in the eyes of the world.

It's interesting that the Bush years personified gun owners, becasue in the time since Obama has been elected gun sales are soaring far higher than at any point in time with Bush. And it's not just the redneck, gun nuts buying em up either.

And while the conspiracy nuts may look bad, the rest of the world is actually taking action. There's been riots all over the world, you know? We're not the only people on this rock. And certainly every one has been efected by our governments actions.

If it comes to pass that they do try to take our guns, and (god forbid) everything that we've talked about comes to pass.... Who looks crazy then? Its the basic instructions in the art of war, man. You have to actually be ready for a fight if you expect to succeed. If they have guns and the citizens do not, the citizens lose. Bottom line.

I know this for fact though, several other members of this board and myself will not be the ones caught with our pants down.

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


Agreed. As I had said before about this person they are bringing their opinion into the mix and claiming it to be fact. It is people like you butta who continue the hatrid of your fellow man.

[edit on 18-2-2009 by Vodo34861]

reply to post by Anonymous ATS

We don't necessarily have to worry about our own military, no, a lot of them are overseas right now, and a lot of the ones who are home now are dealing with injury to the body and mind. Just look how our government is helping those military.

Do you seriously think anyone in government that has an agenda to take guns away from American citizens would try to use our own military to do it, no, if you look at some of the documents already drawn up, they will use mercenaries and foreign soldiers who will be more likely to not care about who they are doing things to.

For example, all you have to do is look at reports of things that have been happening in other countries that have ongoing wars. Our own soldiers and the mercenaries we send there have been accused of atrocities. For every accusation that is made, there are probably 10 more that are not reported.

As the OP and others have been saying, look at the history of what has been happening down through the ages when citizens have been disarmed.

And now, we have a whole generation of people across the world who have been desensitized by playing a lifetime of violent video games and watching violent movies as well. For those of you who say it doesn't matter, our own military says it makes it easier to prepare soldiers for war when they have that background.

I'll tell you what, my family will keep their guns, and you can do without any if you feel so safe, and if things come down to the point that we DO need them, hopefully your neighbor will have a few bullets left to defend YOU when he is done defending HIS family, of course, by that time, you will probably already be dead........

Governments will always have bigger guns, bigger bombs, bigger everything compared to what a civilian population will have.

But anyway, I'm staying on the fence on this one...

I come form a country with strict gun control, so I guess I don't know any better.

reply to post by buttafuqua


So, it is not possible it is because he always gives evasive answers when questioned?

I think he wants to end personal gun ownership myself and I don't belong to any organization and since my Daughter is the same Race(s) as Obama your argument screams that you are the one with the problem. Calling people names won't serve you well I'm afraid. You clearly hate the other side, so in your mind they must be bad people so you label them.

How many guns have you owned? Have you ever hunted for food? Have you ever been target shooting for fun and sport? Have you ever seen a gun self-animate and shoot somebody? Are you aware that a Semi-Automatic and and Automatic Weapon are not the same? Are you aware that Automatic Weapons have been illegal for many scores of years? How exactly do you believe it is possible for a gun to self-animate and shoot someone? I think it is Criminals who shoot people, not guns and you really have no defense for that position so you yell Racist as a classic Strawman

reply to post by Vodo34861


People like ME that continue the hatred of my fellow man?!

Originally posted by buttafuqua
reply to post by Boston Tea Party

 

Just a point of clarification, I did not call NRA members racists. I was implying that this talk of Obama looking to "ban guns" smacks of racism. And yes, I happened to "play the race card" here, as I was the one who actually brought this into the discussion. However, I do believe that race is a factor. I am by the way a white male aged 33.

Did you know that the original gun bans were racist? They were enacted to prevent the black folks from shooting the KKK when they came to lynch them.

Living beings have the right to self defense. If one corners a mouse and tries to kill it, the mouse will defend itself.

Education is relative and you might find some of those rednecks to be invaluable if the SHTF as they will know how to hunt and survive with what is available in the rural areas. Using proper grammar doesn't keep food on the table when the shelves at the grocery store are bare.

[edit on 18-2-2009 by merkaba93]

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


Do you believe in labeling everyone who does not share your opinion as a racists, redneck, poor, uneducated? If so then yes I would have to say you are one of those people.

Originally posted by DrumsRfun
I wish more people had access to guns.
I live in Canada where gun laws suck.The idea that someone is trying to control what I can and can't do really pisses me off.

Just do what everyone I know does. Ignore the gun bans and laws. Buy some weapons and register them and leave them unloaded, de shelled, and locked, paper them, insure them, and put them away in a high and safe place or locked in an open display cabinent. Don't forget to register where they are located and put them exactly where you say they are. Then, when they sneak or crash into your home and go straight to them, you'll know they are your enemy. Or, if a criminal invades your home, and you can get to them in time, do so. Otherwise, neither will see it coming you you pull out the good stuff that you bought from black markets. They are their, just be careful who you go to, a dealer won't kill a potential repeat customer, so, go to the worst of the worst, poorest of the poor areas you can find and start making friends. No, you have to be careful for undercover agents, getting out of this is legally easy, don't make an offer of interest in guns or an offer of money. Make them tell you, that way it was there idea, and is legally entrapment. Whoever gets it, just tell them of to give you an isolated area you can conveniently drop your money so that, God willing, one who finds it can get some real use out of it. This is the Common Law finder's keeper's, religious planting of the financial seed theology, and legal donations to strangers laws all rolled into one legal defense against actual physical transferance laws.

Then, have them tell you where you might go and meditate on your life, and if they do this at the other end as well, by suggesting to them where they can go and surrender their illegal ware to give it to God that it may find the place that God will's it to be, then, no one has actually legally done anything illegal, by definition. Simply because whomever finds the gun realizes they can't keep it, and leaves it somewhere themselves, then they are given a suggestion of where they can go to meditate on their own lives. Then if, lo and behold, you go to meditate and find a gun, or, they go to meditate and find money, well, what Law has been broken?

What aTrinity it is. One who leaves a wepon and goes off elsewhere and finds money; One who goes off somewhere to leave money and finds a gun (or whatever) and; One who tells two people where they can go to surrender their worldly goods and where they can go after that to meditate about it. All three never meeting and only One advising two friends on inner peace. And, if the One with money, should drop some of that money, and the Advising One should pick it up and offer it back to the one who dropped it only to be told to keep it, or, "notices" it after the One with money who dropped it leaves and doesn't know that they had such money, much left had dropped. Well, I could play out such analogies all day. But, it takes three. The only conspiricy is one of Meditation, loss, finding, and maybe donations, donations are taxable, by the way, so report them. Finding money is not.
Possessing an unregistered firearm. Hmmm, I don't mind paying the fine or serving some time for the misdemeanor, it's not a felony, yet. So, no three strikes to worry about. Unless it violates a parole. But, small risk really.
I'd just hide it, then, take a wire brush to the barrel intensely, melt it in acid and high temperatures to a mass of molten metal actually, if I ever had to use it. Or, simply turn it over after the fact and pay the fine.

Either way, I'd rather have it and not need it, than, not have it and need it.
As for kids, well, all the kids I know are trained in safety, then, in use, and, don't go near them anyways. Even if they sleep on the mattress or what not that it's near or under, loaded, or not.

And the fine for illegal possession, small price to pay. I don't seek permission, and, I will not voluntary relenquish, unless, I am certain I can safely get out of the situation and obtain a new one. Even in prison. If you can get drugs and contraband, I can get guns and bullets.

What's more, stockpile plenty for others to use as well, you never know when you'll wish your associates or neighbors had some if they didn't have the foresight to do the same. And don't hide them at home. Or work, or anywhere else you routinely go. I mean you can for personal protection where a legally processed and locked unarm gun will not do. But, on the large, secure them in places none would think to look. Thefts and accidents happen, but, it's not my fault such measures have to be taken, so, I feel no guilt. Gangs do this and it is a very logical survival habit. That way when they are searched or arrested they are unarmed. It could take hours to search an area finding them and there's no guarantee they'll all be found. Tactics like on tv are expensive and aren't justified over petty offenses and daily routines, which is what it would be, since, by the time they leave the area, it begins to fill back up with them.

The real shame is all the time, money, effort, and creativity that takes place just to hope you never need it, and damn sure don't want to use it, but, make sure it is there if it is ever needed.

I mean, if a criminal breaks in my house to steal a tv, I'll carry it to their car, they must need it more than I do, it's not worth arguing or risking anyone being injured over, that's what insurance is for. But, try to injure, or harm, or touch my friends, family, guests, neighbors, or even someone on the street I don't know, or myself, I'll wound you to slow you down, keep coming, and one of us is getting a funeral in the near future, and I've not planned mine as of yet.

[edit on 18-2-2009 by PhyberDragon]

[edit on 18-2-2009 by PhyberDragon]

reply to post by Vodo34861


Can you point to one of my posts in which I have done that?

Maybe you need to re-read some stuff.

I think what is under my crawl here, and what has caused me to play devil's advocate, is that this type of fearmongering goes unchecked and becomes accpeted as doctrine on the ATS website too easily.

Everyone wants to tie in all types of fabulous NWO conspiracy theories, as if this is all part of the master plan. To strip away all your rights, take away your guns, load you on FEMA trains, to FEMA death camps, and force you to "take the chip". This is what I take issue with.

A couple posters before someone was alluding to the idea that foreign mercenaries are going to come into this country and attack it's citizenry. I like a good story as much as the next man, but come'on man, that is just so far-fetched. You ranks swell on this board, and each poster trys to outdo one another with a more sensational headline. To somehow prove how this giant conspriacy is just about to show it's ugly face to the world, and you will all be proven right. Those of you with stock piles of food, supplies, amo, and survival manuals. You just can't wait till this whole thing starts, as this will prove you were not just paranoid, and that everyone else will be turning to you for support because you were so wise to see this coming. Then you can play John Rambo... Mr. Big Shot.

reply to post by buttafuqua


Agreed.
Actually, I am one of those REALLY CRAZY people who actually anticipates with a sense of excitement the NWO.
Why? Because I KNOW nobody is going to come into the U.S. and do those things. They would become target practice before they made it half-way through any of our border states. The ONLY way for America to fall would be for the American Military to take her out, and that won't happen.

reply to post by liesnomore

"Thou shalt not kill" actually translates as "Thou shalt not murder." If it were the former, then soldiers in war time, people killing in self defense, or officers shooting a bad guy during the commission of a crime would be guilty of murder.
Need to to get your facts straight.

reply to post by mattguy404


It isn't the size of the dog in the fight, but the fight in the dog.

I don't care how badass the weapons are stacked against me. Give me a good rifle and a nice hiding spot and I'll wreak havoc on anyone trying to enter my house.

reply to post by buttafuqua


Once again, wrong thread. This is not fear mongering, this is real. It's historically checked out a dozen times. Before martial law and bad things happening, the power that be will go for the weapons first. Citizens are left defeseless with out them.

Also, I don't know where you get off thinking that the USA won't send in mercs against it's own. Hurricane Katrina was practically an all Blackwater excericise:

Some, like Blackwater, are under federal contract. Others have been hired by the wealthy elite, like F. Patrick Quinn III, who brought in private security to guard his $3 million private estate and his luxury hotels, which are under consideration for a lucrative federal contract to house FEMA workers.

Source link

Originally posted by buttafuqua
I think what is under my crawl here, and what has caused me to play devil's advocate, is that this type of fearmongering goes unchecked and becomes accpeted as doctrine on the ATS website too easily.

I agree with that but whos fault is that? And why do you feel you have to make it your project to deture that. People will read what they want to read and take it their own way. I am not here to change the world. Only to present facts and then the people can take those facts and use them as they wish.