Alien Cigar Shaped 'Spaceships' In The Solar System? Try Debunking This!

Oh, so you are saying that the object running AWAY from the MIG should have stalled?
I see.

Originally posted by Jay-in-AR
Phage, Put yourself in the other-sides shoes for just one second.
You have to realize that you relentlessly argue on a double-standard.

This is the perfect example. You are trying to argue against video evidence based on the hearsay testimony of a fellow ATSer and using shotty physics to support yourself.

If the shoe were on the other foot you probably wouldn't even "dignify the question with a response."

The quote was not hearsay, it was an expression of first hand experience from a fighter pilot. I am not in the habit of disputing first hand experience. Eyewitness reports can often be erroneous but people believe what they believe. This is not such a case, this is not an eyewitness report of something someone saw. This is an experienced pilot giving us the benefit of his experience.

The physics are not shoddy. They are the actual physics of air combat.

[edit on 2/16/2009 by Phage]

reply to post by Phage


"Any aircraft gains energy by reducing its turnrate."

A much less fancy way of rewording that is that any aircraft who reduces his turn-rate loses ground.

You aren't answering two things: 1) That you are using an argument you would otherwise avoid, if you could, because it is based completely on hearsay. 2) The MIG actually paces the object for quite some time before the object removes itself from the frame... Luckily we have clouds in the background that we can observe from. The object itself speeds away, not the MIG reducing ANYTHING.

reply to post by Phage


Phage: If I were so inclined, I would take the time to go through every one of your posts and copy them over to illustrate to you when you choose to use eyewitness testimony and when you don't.

Even in the case of military pilots.

In this case, you are choosing the word of someone in this discussion forum who simply CLAIMS to be a pilot. Give me a break dude, and answer the questions.

Otherwise, it isn't worth it.

The simple fact is, and as can be observed in the video, the MIG paces with the object for some period of time, and then is either out-turned, or out-ran...

Either way, think about it like this: They are pacing one another, one banks sharp, the other banks wide... Tell me in all honesty that the one that banks wide ends up on the six. Bullsnap, in all likelihood, he puts himself so far out of position that if he tries to correct, he falls like a rock...

Now, tell me this. What plane can out-bank a MIG-21 like that?
I can think of only one.

Edit to add: Phage: There is actually a pretty good thread going on right now about methods used to detect disinfo "agents". One person on that thread had a pretty good record, from all indication, of picking them out. His method of pointing them out was putting them on the foe list. In the past I thought I would never use it. But I thought that was a pretty good way to use it. I'm putting you there. Welcome, you are the first on my list.

[edit on 16-2-2009 by Jay-in-AR]

For anyone that doesn't want to listen to the BS, I would suggest watching said video again. Notice that the UFO apparently wasn't in a straight-line trajectory, as the banking MIG was pacing it. (if it were in a straight-line trajectory, the MIG would be either losing or gaining ground, but it wasn't) UNTIL the thing decided to speed away...

That means that either the UFO banked hard inside, or the MIG let off. Either way, the MIG isn't gaining the six... It is dropping out.

And considering that we never saw any bullets fired, I highly doubt it is simply a tow-target... Not to mention the fact that the extra drag would reduce the speed of the pursuant, making the entire excerise elementary in nature, if it is even possible in the first place... I wonder what they use to tow the target? Nylon?

[edit on 16-2-2009 by Jay-in-AR]

Cool pics,but i must say i really dislike reading some of these posts..it certainly makes a mockery of the ufo scene when people start telling us what species of alien they are,why they are here,why they orbit a certain place etc etc sigh no wonder everyone thinks we are lunatics...Star and flag though!

Originally posted by merka
I havent looked closer at it all, but this:



Definetly look like out of focus equipment...

I agree the photo is out of focus but it is the shape of a cigar shaped vehicle that we have comparisons of from other photos of objects in the Solar System.

What even intriques me even more with the photo AS16-120-19238 taken by Apollo 16 is actually what I can see located on the surface of the Moon.

Clearly a weather balloon...

Great post, the disclosure agenda moves forward.

What's our role in all this?

I believe that we should be getting the word out about corruption and New World Order plans so that the "good guys" in government, such as Podesta, can move forward with the disclosure.

Reconpilot - a person who claimed to be well connected- claimed that disclosure was only "a year or two away" and depended on how much we stood up to our governments. Check out the thread "Questions for ReconPilot" in my profile.

Wow, I'd love to reply to this thread.. The actual topic posted. But it appears I've stumbled upon a two page argument between two people who seem to be quickly losing focus on the topic at hand.

It's ok though, we'll wait.



In the meantime, have you (OP) seen the video from that fairly questionable Nazi WWII UFO documentary featuring the cigar shaped craft being pursued by the Nazi Fighter Jet? In all honestly, I can't vouch for it's credibility. It just seems that it would fit well with your current evidence as I've yet to see it debunked. I'm positive you can find said video on youtube with a simple search, but if you run into troubles let me know and I will point you in the right direction.


- Strype



Edit: Punc

[edit on 17-2-2009 by Strype]

Concerning the 'elongated object' in the rings of Saturn, consider the exposure time of the picture. Low light, great distance requires long exposure times. There are 2 other bright 'features' in the same picture. The one to the left of center is also elongated but clearly is a curved shape, clearly following in the ring's track. The second bright 'feature' is centered and directly above the elongated 'feature'. It is larger then the other features and has a short tail pointing at 2 o'clock. These 2 features of larger groupings of particles in the ring seen over a long camera exposure. This explains the left feature's 'streak'. The center one is coming almost directly at the camera, so curved motion is not perceptible. It seems to just sit there during the long exposure, hence its very bright nature. Finally, the foreground feature. Given that it is the closest to the lense, as compared to the other 2 features, its velocity with respect to the lense is greater, therefore it will show up on a long exposure picture as much elongated! Therefore the conclusion, taking into account the long exposure of the camera is that all features in the rings appear long or very bright or in fact point features, not 'long objects'. If you wonder why the stars surrounding the planet do not appear 'elongated' as does some features of the ring, start hardly as compared to closer objects, such as the ring. Bye.

Originally posted by Mason mike
great post Mike. The huge cigar opbjects in the rings of Saturn have always held my intrest. But it messes with my head a little to think what if these were actually alien craft, how big are the aliens? On the planet Earth, we have an idea of size relative to dinosaurs, buildings and people. But a ship thousands of miles long is tough to wrap your head around.

Thanks again for putting this togeather in such a nice format.

Mike

"Someone" not "something" is messing with your head.

Look at the rings of Saturn and make an educated guess if they are solid as they look on the picture.
No they are not. Reason why they look solid is because of the time delay in the picture. It is NOT taken at 1/2000 of a second. Rather it is measured in seconds or even minutes.

Anything brightly lit AND moving in a faily straight line (such as a moon, debris, star or big "heaven boulder") will end up in the picture as a cigar shaped object.

By the way - this is also the explanation of the famous "rods". The "rods" are something moving close to and in front of the camera in the "opening time". Often an insect.

HolgerTheDane

Originally posted by HolgerTheDane
Look at the rings of Saturn and make an educated guess if they are solid as they look on the picture.
No they are not. Reason why they look solid is because of the time delay in the picture. It is NOT taken at 1/2000 of a second. Rather it is measured in seconds or even minutes.

Anything brightly lit AND moving in a faily straight line (such as a moon, debris, star or big "heaven boulder") will end up in the picture as a cigar shaped object.

I've just been searching for a .gif I saw in 07 or 08. The images of the 'huge spacecraft' were rendered as a Gif file and indicated that they were more likely to be meteors passing through. Let's be honest ( I include the caveat of our experience), which is more probable? Meteor/ asteroid or extremely large spaceship or entity? Can't find the Gif anywhere

Thought I'd add this for fun...I've checked the ID number against JPL and NASA and drawn blank. It only shows up on UFO sites and here at ATS.

Source image

Mysterious Object Seen Near Saturn's Ring - NOOO23784 was the number of this image taken on the 29th October, 2004. It was received by JPL on the 30th October, 2004. The camera was pointing towards Saturn's rings at approximately 491,458 miles away. The image was taken using the CLI and CL.2. filters. The image has not been validated or calibrated. Apparently a validated/calibrated image will be archived with the Nasa Planetary Date System in 2005.

What could it be?

1/Asteroid?
2/ Vast alien craft with three orb craft North and Northwest of it?
3/Hoax photo?

It's a good resolution image.

[edit on 17-2-2009 by Kandinsky]

To Phage:

I would like to issue a public apology to you. For the life of me, I don't know what got into me last night. I've been waiting for the axe to drop on my job for the past week (haha, as of right now I'm at home at 11:30AM instead of out working) and yesterday I thought it would have been a keen idea to drink my worries away. I became awfully confrontational and I apologize for that.

I still think its a UFO.

Also, I don't really think you are a disinfo agent.

[edit on 17-2-2009 by Jay-in-AR]

***snip***
Let's be honest ( I include the caveat of our experience), which is more probable? Meteor/ asteroid or extremely large spaceship or entity? Can't find the Gif anywhere

Thought I'd add this for fun...I've checked the ID number against JPL and NASA and drawn blank. It only shows up on UFO sites and here at ATS.
***snip***

Had to look it up - didn't know the meaning of "caveat".


caveat definition
ca·veat (kā′vē at′, kav′ē-; kä′vā ät′)
noun

1 . Law a formal notice that an interested party files with the proper legal authorities, directing them to refrain from an action until the party can be heard
2. a warning

Etymology: L, let him beware; 3d pers. sing., pres. subj., of cavere, to beware, take heed: see hear


I like the first one the best.

Did you know that the New York legal firm Sullivan & Cromwell LLP has an employee called Sue Yoo?

Anyway.
Nice picture - couldn't imagine what it could be.

HolgerTheDane

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


Apology readily accepted.
Thank you and I hope things turn out alright.

reply to post by Phage


I appreciate that. I'm sure things will be just fine, I've got a second job to fall back on, though it doesn't pay near as much, but we'll make it...

Anywho, I still don't think the physics support your claim that the object was a target.
But this is a little off topic of the thread, as the thread dealt with pictures.
I think you have satisfied the answer to those pictures, with the help of some others, satisfactorily though.
Good work.

I see a few UFOs but no spaceships. With all the new cameras around I predict a clear view of one of these crafts soon. Or maybe not.

Originally posted by Kandinsky
Thought I'd add this for fun...I've checked the ID number against JPL and NASA and drawn blank. It only shows up on UFO sites and here at ATS.

Am I the only one who finds images on that site?

Here you, you just had to use zeros instead of "O" in the image ID.

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by Kandinsky
Thought I'd add this for fun...I've checked the ID number against JPL and NASA and drawn blank. It only shows up on UFO sites and here at ATS.

Am I the only one who finds images on that site?

Here you, you just had to use zeros instead of "O" in the image ID.

Thank you very much, Armap. It's a beautiful image.