Continental Crash 3407 - A Conspiracy? - 9/11 Widow - met w/ Obama Dead onboard

I'm with others here who believe this could be a grim message to President Obama, saying "Back off this one, leave 9/11 alone." It really is just too convenient for me to accept it any other way at this point, but as always, we will wait for further evidence.

Just a few observations.

This lady was asking serious questions about the government's response to 9/11. I don't think she was a classic Truther claiming it was all a planned event by the US administration.

In 7+ years, as an advocate, she must have been on hundreds of flights cross country.

Buffalo is in an araa of the Great Lakes that experiences extreme often turbulent weather conditions.

What some call with disdain debunkers are people applying common sense and weighing evidence. Getting rid of the 'bunk' literally.

In some ways I consider the knee-jerk conspiracists the enemies of the truth. When unfounded speculation gets grafted onto an important event, it becomes harder to separate fact from fiction.

Maybe the people jumping in with their cover-up theories at every opportunity are the ones trying to deflect from what is really going on by muddying the waters with disinformation.

Maybe that is the ultimate conspiracy.

Those unfortunate people who died in this tragedy, not even buried, deserve more respect than to just become an excuse for some people to start on another conspiracy tirade.


Mike F

Originally posted by Komodo
you mean to tell me there's a Wiki page on this already ?? ~!!!!!! Isn't that a little wierd ?? ~!! Without an official report, it's plastered on Wiki?? ~~!!

Years ago I was an active editor for Wikipedia and no it's actually very common for big incidents like the crash 3407 story to get into Wikipedia within hours. While the investigation of the crash won't be complete for at least weeks there's still a lot of helpful information out there about the incident.

I don't know, it really sounds like a simple and tragic accident but I would never rule out the possibility. It's just that I doubt she was that much of an important figure, or important enough to cause a whole plane to crash simply for her.

There are many groups out there with VERY radical ideas regarding the 9-11 official story and there are no crashes for them. They just keep making movies and websites.

Even if she came out and said the planes were holograms, what would it matter at this point?

She'd have to have been in possession of key evidence, MAJOR and IRREFUTABLE, and not just simple suspicion and rejection of the official story.

Many have that.

- Lee

reply to post by likeabull


yes its very sad and they need some time to grieve but as for the crash the answers are coming fast itll probably be wrapped up by monday morn ok well lets come clean on some of these recent ones like spannair last summer and airbus on a test flight last fall with mechanics like me on board i think they were aussies twa 800 radar operator says he had a return on his screen heading toward the twa plane feds looked at it said it was an anomaly caused by temp inversion the radar guy says ok but how come if been looking at this screen for 8 yrs and never seen one of these before let alone an ascending inversion that looks like it tracking to the 10000ft level about 5yrs ago a 747 air china is at 35000 ft never to heard from again and it think 1 or 2 ys ago i think it was an 80 dropped the screen in indonesia they think its sitting in about 3000ft of water but they dont know where i know we arent the only country that has satillites iran has one north korea has one and theyre both probably going to send us a sparkler pretty soon but what happened to these planes lets have some updates like maybe next week if your not too busy ntsb

reply to post by Bombeni

Remember what happened to the people in the Twin Towers who listened to authority and stayed in their offices? I still cannot get over that, that people actually stayed in their offices after that first plane hit. No one could have stopped me from finding a way out of there or at least trying.

Unfortunately, Beverly's late husband Sean was one of those people who obeyed the orders to stay inside the South Tower after the plane hit.

Workers inside the tower were instructed to "stay put", to not try and escape the building, that "all was well."

Sean did attempt to escape anyway, flying down the stairwell to the 76th floor before the smoke choked him up so badly, he turned back and started heading back up the stairs. When he got to the 105th floor, he tried to get out on the observation deck, only to find the door was LOCKED!

That's when Sean realized he would not be getting out alive. So he called Beverly on the phone and spent his last moments saying goodbye to her.

Then suddenly, Beverly heard the sound of an EXPLOSION, followed by a "whooshing sound," (this was the building collapsing), and the line went dead. She "ear-witnessed" her husband's death...as well as the sound of explosives inside the building.

reply to post by mmiichael

Just curious, what are your thoughts about 9/11?

If in fact rogue elements of the U.S. government were involved (which a preponderance of evidence strongly suggests), does it dishonor the victims to speak the truth?

If it's even remotely possible that our own government could do something that evil (Operation Northwoods proves they've planned these types of operations since the 1960s), not to mention the entire MSM refusing to question the many 9/11 anomalies, can you really blame anyone for being initially skeptical about every disaster?

Is directing anger and disgust towards what you call the "knee-jerk conspiracists" really a case of shooting the messenger?

Would it perhaps be more appropriate to blame a government whose actions have repeatedly demonstrated that they're incapable of accepting responsibility and telling the truth, even after accidentally shooting down a jetliner like TWA 800? Trust is earned, and based on the last 50 years, there's very little reason to trust anything the government says or does. Same goes for the traitorous corporate media.

Whether Continental 3407 ends up being a conspiracy or not, I think your condemnation is misplaced. Some people seem more focused on condemning those who tell the truth and point out evil rather than the evil itself.

I’m new at ATS, and am sickened by the joy with which some posters on this thread pounced on a tragedy to support their own world-view, before having anything like full access to data on the cause, and before the dead are even in the ground.

If you are one of those posters, go kiss your partner and spend a few minutes of Valentine's Day reflecting on who you have become. You are not too far off from being a Bunch of Guys.

Among the reported dead were human rights investigator Alison Des Forges, an expert on the Rwandan genocide
en.wikipedia.org...

There’s another Bunch Of Guys somewhere right now speculating that the crash was planned to kill Alison Des Forges, just like you have done to Beverly Eckert.

Marc Sageman is an ex-CIA operative and so is probably classed as non-human in the minds of conspiracy theorists. Contrast his careful collection and analysis of data with what you have been doing.
www.fpri.org...

Originally posted by robatmj12
reply to post by likeabull

 

yes its very sad and they need some time to grieve but as for the crash the answers are coming fast itll probably be wrapped up by monday morn ok well lets come clean on some of these recent ones like spannair last summer and airbus on a test flight last fall with mechanics like me on board i think they were aussies twa 800 radar operator says he had a return on his screen heading toward the twa plane feds looked at it said it was an anomaly caused by temp inversion the radar guy says ok but how come if been looking at this screen for 8 yrs and never seen one of these before let alone an ascending inversion that looks like it tracking to the 10000ft level about 5yrs ago a 747 air china is at 35000 ft never to heard from again and it think 1 or 2 ys ago i think it was an 80 dropped the screen in indonesia they think its sitting in about 3000ft of water but they dont know where i know we arent the only country that has satillites iran has one north korea has one and theyre both probably going to send us a sparkler pretty soon but what happened to these planes lets have some updates like maybe next week if your not too busy ntsb

I appreciate your info and courage!

2nd line

Originally posted by tuppence2
I’m new at ATS, and am sickened by the joy with which some posters on this thread pounced on a tragedy to support their own world-view, before having anything like full access to data on the cause, and before the dead are even in the ground.

If you are one of those posters, go kiss your partner and spend a few minutes of Valentine's Day reflecting on who you have become. You are not too far off from being a Bunch of Guys.

When humans are in a group, they conform to the group, they become more and more like each other. Bonds within a close-knit group can grow surprisingly strong – strong enough that they match, or even trump biological family ties. Throughout history, organisations such as the military have harnessed this power of the group to motivate individuals.
It's no surprise that virtually all suicide attacks in modern times have relied on group psychology. From the squadrons of Kamikaze pilots in Japan to the highly trained suicide units of the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka.
But new evidence from Marc Sageman shows that extremist cells can form spontaneously, without any connections to established organisations. His analysis of al-Qaeda has shown that most people who join the organisation join when they are already radicalised, and crucially this radicalisation process has happened among a group of friends. He calls it his 'bunch of guys' theory.
www.bbc.co.uk...


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

Among the reported dead were human rights investigator Alison Des Forges, an expert on the Rwandan genocide
en.wikipedia.org...

There’s another Bunch Of Guys somewhere right now speculating that the crash was planned to kill Alison Des Forges, just like you have done to Beverly Eckert.

Marc Sageman is an ex-CIA operative and so is probably classed as non-human in the minds of conspiracy theorists. Contrast his careful collection and analysis of data with what you have been doing.
www.fpri.org...

HEY! thus far, I'm still trying to pick out the pieces and ask for assistance to things that don't make sense to me with my knowledge!

SECOND: if you have seen, I said in a few posts up about WIKI jumping all over this even before the report comes out~! In which I thought was a WAY to early to even post up and not even giving any respect to the victims, just pump up the details as soon as possible 'cuz the quicker we get the info out, the more $$$ we can make~! WIKI just fell in my respect book like the DOW did in the last 4 weeks..

THIRD: Yes, it's a TOTAL tragedy~!!! I'm I grieved? YES! I guess I stand up for those of us that DON'T have the 'joy' you say some of us have, because like goldenfleece post above, I would definitely agree with....perhaps you didn't read it so I've posted it for you below for a re-read..

/rant off

and thx you goldenfleece, I couldn't have said it better myself~! KUDOS!

reply to post by mmiichael

Just curious, what are your thoughts about 9/11?

If in fact rogue elements of the U.S. government were involved (which a preponderance of evidence strongly suggests), does it dishonor the victims to speak the truth?

If it's even remotely possible that our own government could do something that evil (Operation Northwoods proves they've planned these types of operations since the 1960s), not to mention the entire MSM refusing to question the many 9/11 anomalies, can you really blame anyone for being initially skeptical about every disaster?

Is directing anger and disgust towards what you call the "knee-jerk conspiracists" really a case of shooting the messenger?

Would it perhaps be more appropriate to blame a government whose actions have repeatedly demonstrated that they're incapable of accepting responsibility and telling the truth, even after accidentally shooting down a jetliner like TWA 800? Trust is earned, and based on the last 50 years, there's very little reason to trust anything the government says or does. Same goes for the traitorous corporate media.

Whether Continental 3407 ends up being a conspiracy or not, I think your condemnation is misplaced. Some people seem more focused on condemning those who tell the truth and point out evil rather than the evil itself.

And once again we capitalise on a accident where people die to get flags and points.

Originally posted by questioningall
reply to post by lynn112

 

So a plane can just go down without any distress call - free fall down - nothing from pilots?

Yes.

Sorry, but they have already said it was "above freezing" in the 30's on the ground.

Now correct me if I am wrong, but planes have continually flown in MUCH colder temps, besides when they are at 30000 feet up, the temps have to be VERY cold and sub zero. So at 16000 feet coming in for a landing, then all of a sudden ice builds up on the plane.......... No, sorry - they need to think of a "better" reason for the plane going down.

Also - see please an "edit" I made to the main post - just now.......

eyewitness -

You don't get ice built up at 30,000 feet, because obviously there is very little water vapour. Flying through clouds at sub - zero temperatures is a very, very, different story.

sky lit up orange - before crash


that is NOT ice build up!

Doesn't mean it was a conspiracy either?

This is why I would NEVER ride a Prop plane, never, ever not if they paid me.

Would that be because they engines in prop planes are exactly the same as jets? In one, you have a ducted fan. In other, you have a prop. Don't fly on jets either, please.

- Look at the crappy plane she was on.

And how exactly is it a 'crappy plane'.

The odds of that kind of plane going down in those kinds of conditions probably aren't astronomical.

Yes, they are. Doesn't mean it was completely impossible either.

Just the sheer fact a 9/11 widow was on board is freaky enough.

How is that freaky at all? It's rare, yes.

Thousands of planes fly over the U.S. every year. They fly in all types of weather. According to this Telegraph UK article only 10 planes in the last 13 years have crashed in the U.S.

That is 10 planes among hundreds of thousands of flights. How very unfortunate that a pain in the ass 9/11 activist of notoriety who had just spoken to the President a week ago was on one of those planes.

You are forgetting something.

How is a 9/11 activist any less likely to die in a plane crash than anyone else? It's completely irrelevant. Planes crash, anyone who travels are more or less an equal chance of crashing. It doesn't matter if they were a 9/11 activist. As for icing, go back further, and look at all plane crashes.

I've been on a plane that hit a vertical draft and dropped over a thousand feet in seconds.

You're not oging to drop over a thousand feet in seconds.... Impossible.

The odds of dying in a plane crash are 1 in 10,000,000......I guess the odds of a husband and wife dying in unrelated plane crashes is 10,000,000 multiplied by 10,000,000 (at least....because the husband was killed on the "ground"...I'm guessing much less chance)...but lets say ten million squared......

so 100,000,000,000,000

phew..two very unlucky people...or not?

Anybody good at statistics out there?

The probability of someone dieing in a plane crash is very low, and just because they are a Widow doesn't mean it any less likely.

Just out of curiousity, why are there so many debunkers on ATS? A conspiracy board with so many people that just think that conspiracies do not exist. That makes no sense? It almost seems like a conspiracy!

Why are there so many people commenting on aviation when they know nothing about it?

This plane, a Bombadier Dash 8, is small and doesn't have all the bells and whistles that a large advanced plane has and are also flown by less experienced pilots. Here's the wiki page on the Bombadier Dash 8:

In terms of avionics, they are very similar to larger jets, actually, probably exactly the same. Pilots may have less hours but they are always highly qualified, and usually fly far more flights than larger jets.

Oh yeah. You could buy the components and build a small one yourself.

Convenient way to prevent pilots from leaving any clues about what happened. According to the black box data, there was at least a short struggle to regain control, so it's odd there was no final transmission.

Wonder why it hasn't been done then. The EMP I mean.

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
reply to post by jfj123

 

Is that all you ever do -- demand evidence?

Sorry to be such a wet blanket but when someone makes unsubstantiated claims, I ask them to back up their claims. This is reasonable.

I'm not here to educate you. Do your own research.

No apparently you're here to make baseless claims and expect nobody to call you on them. Sorry it doesn't work that way.

Start with JFK, unless you're one of the very last Americans who still believes in the ridiculous Magic Bullet Theory. You sound like that tiresome shill Chadwickus who thinks governments couldn't be this evil. History proves otherwise.

One conspiracy doesn't make everything a conspiracy.
It's not that I think the government could be "this evil". It's that government isn't that smart. Big difference.

Just curious but how did we all find out about northwood?

A book called "Body of Secrets" by James Bamford. What did you think -- the government felt guilty and confessed?
So the information just simply appeared in the book? Where did the author get his information?

If we are talking about coincidences, Do you remember the crash of American Airlines Flight 587 on November 12th 2001? One of the survivors of 9/11 was on that plane; Hilda Yolanda Mayol. She worked in the ground floor restaurant of the WTC and got out before it collapsed. What are the chances of that? As great as having the widow of one of the victims in a plane crash, not two months after but 7 and a bit years after..

I think it is possible therefore that these things happen just because they happen and for no other reason.

It amazing me at the rampant, baseless speculation occurs here. We know almost nothing about the accident yet and already the imaginary NWO has taken down an entire plane to get to one person??? What the NWO can't have someone run over? or poisoned? or set up a trip and fall accident?

Someone even claimed something about an electromagnetic pulse My god I hope they were kidding !

So for all you that believe that this was another "NWO" murder, Here is a question for you:


Since you believe the government was involved, what are you going to do about it?

I'm not being a smart @ss here. I'm just curious.

The "truthers" here are defending there idea's like a lion would defend it's kill so I just want to know where you all are planning on taking this? Is this just a bunch of chest thumping about how bad the government is or do you all have a real plan to bring these "traitors" to justice?

reply to post by Bombeni


Yes, "they" would. Taking her out alone, would definitely cast suspicion.

I'm glad there are others here that share my concern about the level of voracity of some members here.

For a while I thought I was the only one who found it absurd and quite frankly a bit cold hearted to jump to such conclusions so soon.







[edit on 14-2-2009 by Chadwickus]

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by saturnsrings
the odds of her dying in a plane crash have to be astronomical.

- Look at the crappy plane she was on.
- Look at the wind situation. It was HOWLING.
- Look at the very cold fog situation.
- Look at the snow situation.

The odds of that kind of plane going down in those kinds of conditions probably aren't astronomical.

Again - I would think that if someone wanted her silenced, then they would have done so many years ago.

It wasn't a "crappy" plane. It was only a year old. Winds 17 mph, light snow. First plane down in the US in over 2 years. Mmmmmmmm

reply to post by greshnik


Maybe you should be paranoid. I found that paranoia keeps me more aware of my surroundings.



[edit on 14-2-2009 by aero56]

why in the world would "they", whomever "they" are, take down an ENTIRE plane when they could knock off a single person at any time over a period of years?

This thread makes absolutely no sense !!