Rapelay virtual rape game banned by Amazon

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by eNumbra

 

you think it's fun - fine

you want to argue no one gets hurt - OK - maybe, maybe not

have you been following the discussion at all?

freedom of speech has pretty much gotten a fair shake from everyone involved in this thread - including myself

you want to argue about pixels - argue with someone else - I'm expecting you to come up with better than that

[edit on 2/17/2009 by Spiramirabilis]

Never said rape was fun. Nor did I ever allude to the fact that I would play this game. The actual crime of rape is a terrible one, it takes years of therapy to get a rape victim through the pain of what has happened to them.

I hadn't followed the discussion since my last post before the previous one, many people here are far more long winded and better and putting their points into long well established posts. Before that however, this thread was fully of fallacies like Appeals to Emotion and Moral Elitism. Many people in this thread have acted as though anyone not immediately offended by even the word "Rape" is probably a rapist themselves.

I believe what I believe. You won't convince me otherwise as I won't likely convince you. So I won't argue with you. It's not normally worth it, but this thread struck a chord with me.

I am an aspiring game designer, and though I never plan on making a game about rape, censoring one thing will lead to censoring another and another and another. Video Games are just a NEW medium, like comics, movies and television before it.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by eNumbra

 

here's a serious question for you -

Free speech is free speech, and at least here in America it is a guaranteed right of all citizens. As long as it doesn't cause harm like say, yelling fire in a theater, then there is nothing wrong with it.

what happens when you yell fire in a theater?

go ahead - think about it a little bit...

It causes a panic, (if you can actually find evidence of people filing calmly out of a burning building id love to see it) people would likely get hurt in the ensuing chaos.

I already have an idea where this is leading, and if I'm right, this was already discussed earlier I won't be dragged into this as I have things to do.

reply to post by eNumbra

I am an aspiring game designer, and though I never plan on making a game about rape, censoring one thing will lead to censoring another and another and another. Video Games are just a NEW medium, like comics, movies and television before it.

except that what they do is simulate a crime - and it gives you permission to act out a crime

it actually rewards you for it

no real harm done - so everyone keeps saying

argue the fantasy angle all you want - I'm not opposed to fantasy - fantasize away

I'm against censorship - thought you may not be able to understand how or why - I'm fairly certain

this may be protected speech - no way everyone is going to agree on this one

but I see no reason why you shouldn't have to work for it

you want to treat rape like a toy - I'm going to make you fight for that right

you don't get to do it for free


[edit on 2/17/2009 by Spiramirabilis]

reply to post by eNumbra


are you ascared?

:-)

ok - bye bye then

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by eNumbra

 

are you ascared?

:-)

ok - bye bye then

Oh that's clever. You posts for a page or two like a mature debater and then when someone readily admits that they most leave you sneak one last final word in.

And it's not enough that you already had the last post wherein you demanded I fight for the right of this game to be made, no you posted once more. Am I ascared? It's a funny question, though it has no relevance the fact that you posted it and it went unanswered at the time would seem to make me appear as though I were cowering in the corner, rocking back and forth muttering to myself.

It's really quite a matureway of posting.

I really don't give a # what you demand or want, or after that last post, what you even think.

reply to post by eNumbra

It's really quite a matureway of posting. I really don't give a # what you demand or want, or after that last post, what you even think.

you're absolutely right - it wasn't very mature of me

:-)

but I'm not going to apologize - this time

I already have an idea where this is leading, and if I'm right, this was already discussed earlier I won't be dragged into this as I have things to do.

you had no intention of answering in any case

or did you?

I am in no position to actually demand anything of you - and you're right to not care even if I was

also - I would actually respect you less if you did care what I think - I'm not interested in getting you to agree with me

just seems to me that if you post in a forum - you're up for a little back and forth - but of course you're not obligated

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis


just seems to me that if you post in a forum - you're up for a little back and forth - but of course you're not obligated

Normally I would be, but after 20 pages, tbh no, I had no intention of ever debating you.

This subject is the same thing that has been going on for years. A game comes out that pushes the limits and people are up in arms about it. Many people think many different things about it but it always ends the same way...

life goes on per usual. No offense to you, I would happily debate you another time in perhaps another topic; my previous posts in this thread would have been far longer, but I truly have grown weary of this one.

It doesn't help that I can't personally defend any reasoning behind the game, it is what it is. It just doesn't cross into the territory that would offend me, when something does I will argue against it.

reply to post by eNumbra


:-)

Normally I would be, but after 20 pages, tbh no, I had no intention of ever debating you.

I never have any intention of debating anybody - but it keeps happening...

A game comes out that pushes the limits and people are up in arms about it. Many people think many different things about it but it always ends the same way... life goes on per usual.

that's the key there - pushing the limits - and then thinking about whether there should be limits - it's the whole point

No offense to you, I would happily debate you another time in perhaps another topic; my previous posts in this thread would have been far longer, but I truly have grown weary of this one.

I take no offense - and I was weary of this one before I even started - so, I do get it

It doesn't help that I can't personally defend any reasoning behind the game, it is what it is. It just doesn't cross into the territory that would offend me, when something does I will argue against it.

I'll let you in on my thinking then - briefly

the outcome of all of this is already decided - it is considered free speech - they can fight about it for years (and they will) - but it's done

and - that's maybe as it should be

this is one reason why I love the ACLU - even when they're wrong they're (usually) right

but as a human being - regardless of my belief in protecting our rights - I still have to stand up against what I think is wrong

as a woman - this one is a no-brainer

there is absolutely no winning in this kind of argument - the only thing that can be gained is to preserve our rights as best we can - while simultaneously hoping that mankind will at some point pull it's head out

and good luck to us all

[edit on 2/18/2009 by Spiramirabilis]

I think this article speaks for itself and proves that these games & sexist attitudes are having an adverse effect on Japanese culture. Basically fantasy spilling over into reality. It seems like a lot of Japanese men can't differentiate between fantasy and reality.

www.cbsnews.com...

Women alleged to police that Wada and his cohorts would orchestrate boozing games, then cull the most inebriated girls and quietly whisk them away to karaoke rooms, bathrooms or stairwells to be gang-raped.

When 28-year-old Wada and five other organizers were arrested on rape charges in late June, public outrage underlined how attitudes about sex crimes are changing in a society where victims traditionally suffered in silence.

But the affair also shows how much hasn't changed. It has triggered a boys-will-be-boys backlash that activists say only spotlights how ingrained sexist sentiment remains.

"To some men, rape is still a fantasy, rather than a crime," said Tamie Kaino, a professor at Tokyo's Ochanomizu University and an expert on campus sex crimes.

Sex crimes in Japan have surged in recent years, with rape cases jumping 40 percent to 2,228 in 2001, from around 1,600 four years earlier, according to the National Police Agency. Offenses such as groping and obscenity tripled to 9,326 cases in 2001 from a decade ago.

During a Parliament debate, lawmaker Seiichi Ota, a 57-year-old former Cabinet minister, got a laugh when he quipped: "At least gang rapists are still vigorous. Isn't that at least a little closer to normal?"

A few days later, a weekly magazine said Yasuo Fukuda, the Cabinet's chief spokesman, told reporters at an off-the-record briefing that women were partly to blame in the case of gang rape.

"The problem is that there are lots of women dressed provocatively," he was quoted as saying. Fukuda, who is also the minister of gender equality, said his comment was taken out of context. "I meant something completely different," he said, but didn't elaborate.

Yoko Yoshida, a staff member at the Tokyo Rape Crisis Center, said the wink-and-nudge attitude is grounded in a popular culture that often depicts rape as an act of passion, not violence, and that women who resist don't really mean it.

kotaku.com...

bungalowbillscw.blogspot.com...

www.aworc.org...











[edit on 19-2-2009 by kindred]

Originally posted by kindred
Yoko Yoshida, a staff member at the Tokyo Rape Crisis Center, said the wink-and-nudge attitude is grounded in a popular culture that often depicts rape as an act of passion, not violence, and that women who resist don't really mean it.

The feminists in this country would have a Field Day with this statement...and I'd stand beside them while they did.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_

Originally posted by Revealation
I myself have a pretty twited sense of humor and am extremely open minded but this crosse the line. i play pleny of 1st person shooters which are very visually graphic and enjoy them.

The problem is that this will create, whether you believe it or not, a morally desensitized generation.Especially when played by children who haven''t even had any real life experiences other than virtual reality.

I'm not going to even express my opinion because I will be labeld criminal by the new "HATE SPEECH" but the makers should have implied to their lives, what they portray in the games and see if it's still funny or worth pursuing. ]

I guess I stated my opinion anyway.

I think we need to give credit to most people, that most people really can tell the difference between fantasy and reality.

I'm sure people fantasize about all sorts of things I don't want to know about lol, ( like killing their boss, or becoming a super soldier destroying everything in their path, even playing cowboy and indians is fantasy etc) but if they were to see it in real life, they would feel sick lol, they would never even think about doing anything close to it in real life.

Most people do have a healthy way of knowing the difference between fantasy and reality.

It's those who don't we need to worry about.


[edit on 13-2-2009 by _Phoenix_]

Maybe time for a version in which men get totally raped, mutilated, spit on and then kicked into a hole in the ground? O well it's just women.



All this violence whether sexual or not makes me want to puke.

[edit on 19-2-2009 by QueenofWeird]

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


GTA lets you kill people. Afro Samurai lets you slice and dice people. Final Fantasy games are usually fighting against the rulers by committing acts of terrorism. So... I guess we better ban them since acts of terrorism is a crime...

That's sick.

Yet, I'm fully against censorship, though there is no law against refusing to sell.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


I can see what you are saying. Annoyingly enough my wife is always trying to get me to play "rape", she says it's something that she enjoys. I find it distasteful though so I don't play. I am all about the being invited thing. But she enjoys the play of it, and I know she is not the rule but there are those that do. Take my comments as you will.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


Wow this is an old topic. I was surpirsed to see it pop up in my threads. well your wife obviously has her fantasies as do others. I see nothing wrong with that. It's not my cup of tea though so i can see where you're coming from. The idea of overpowering a woman, even for a sexual game isn't something i would enjoy.

[edit on 24-5-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Yea it was brought up in another conversation so I felt inclined to respond. Funny thing is it was with one who wishes to see you crucified for your comments. Despite your attempts at clarification contrary to her charges.

And, yea, my wife's a freak. Which is why I love her. But the point is, that not everyone places the same emphesis on things.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
Yea it was brought up in another conversation so I felt inclined to respond. Funny thing is it was with one who wishes to see you crucified for your comments. Despite your attempts at clarification contrary to her charges.

Oh i can only imgaine. Some people get a bug stuck right up their rear end and look to take someone out for it. It's petty, childish and pathetic. People can think of me as they will but i don't go on vendettas over stuff. Says a lot really about a person when they go after another, bad mouthing them and causing trouble.

As i said, childish.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
And, yea, my wife's a freak. Which is why I love her.

But the point is, that not everyone places the same emphesis on things.

No not everyone places the same emphasis and maybe that's a good thing.

A horrible concept probably concocted by some freak knowing it would cause a stir somewhere, hoping it would put them on the map.
It's a shame that this sort of crap leads to people saying things like "is this what gaming is headed" when clearly this is a sideshow from the true masterpieces produced in gaming these days: Oblivion: The Elder Scrolls, Left4Dead, Fable II, PE Soccer to name but a few...

Holy good god I need to find this game. Off to 4chan and LL!