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Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
tide88 your option trades are easily explained by a 2 minute Google search.
For 2001:
- Did you bother to check that there if there was news around 1/10/2001?
www.highbeam.com...
I would say American buying TWA on that date would be significant, wouldn’t you?
- Did you bother to check that American Airline announced EARNINGS April 19 2001
and would account for an increase in put activity?
articles.latimes.com...
- Did you bother to check that American Airline announced EARNINGS June 20 2001
and would account for an increase in put activity?
articles.latimes.com...
By the way, have you ever traded an option?
source
The suggestion here is that there were no market reasons for anyone to be selling American Airlines in quantity, and therefore only foreknowledge of 9/11 can explain the put options. And if you didn't bother checking out the facts, and simply believed the article, then you might be convinced. We prefer to check out these details for ourselves, though, and when we did this claim looked something less than accurate.
Take a look at the current share price trend, as an example. The American Airlines price was tailing off significantly in the weeks prior to 9/11.
Date
Opening Price
16th July 2001
$38
23rd July 2001
$36
20th July 2001
$35.05
6th August 2001
$34.35
13th August 2001
$33.87
20th August 2001
$32.45
27th August 2001
$33.65
4th September 2001
$32.01
10th September 2001
$29.95
17th September 2001
$16.00
What’s more, immediately before 9/11 American Airlines released a string of bad news:
12:48pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMR NOTES 'POOR' ECONOMIC CONDITIONS, 'FALLING' DEMAND
12:49pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMR SAYS DEFERRING JET PURCHASES BEYOND FIRM ORDERS
12:47pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMR'S AMERICAN RETIRING 5 MORE 727 AIRCRAFT EARLY
12:48pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMR: AMERICAN TO RETIRE ENTIRE 727 FLEET BY END OF 2002
12:46pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMR SEES Q3 LOSS 'CONSIDERABLY LARGER' THAN Q2'S
12:47pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMR ANTICIPATES 'SIGNIFICANT' LOSS IN Q4
12:49pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMR SAYS CUTTING 2001-02 CAPEX BY NEARLY $1.2 BLN
12:50pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMERICAN AIR FEELS SQUEEZE OF FUEL PRICES, LABOR COSTS
1:07pm 09/07/01 AMR warns of wider losses - William Spain
2:44pm 09/07/01 Analyst: Airline Stocks Face At Least Another Bad Quarter
2:51pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMR DOWN 3.4% AT $30.08 FOLLOWING Q3 WARNING
4:04pm 09/07/01 Boeing stock rating cut over commercial growth - August Cole
I believe, correct me if I am wrong there were phone calls placed warning certain Israeli WTC employees not to come to work that day.
Scores of Internet bloggers and several media accounts claimed Jews received advanced knowledge of the World Trade Center attacks, prompting hundreds to take off work. The false reports were widely attributed with fueling anti-Semetic theories that the Mossad carried out the 9-11 terror attacks.
You have to admit, that theory is rediculous. Also look at the two sources of media that reported it.
"hello David Rosenberg, this is the mossad. Listen, dont go to work on tuesday. Yeah, another terrorist attack on the US... Call in sick. And remeber, not a word to any of your gentile relatives, friends, or coworkers.
Originally posted by Leo Strauss
I want to be clear about my earlier post.
Let's say you work for any intelligence agency and you have done your absolute best to warn your friend and ally that they are going to be attacked.
I believe, correct me if I am wrong there were phone calls placed warning certain Israeli WTC employees not to come to work that day.
In any case you have done your utmost best to warn your friend and they apparently don't care what you think.
So you are probably a group of mid level intelligence agents who decide. Well to hell with it I might as well make some money.
The same could be said about all the other government agents from all the other countries who were privy to the same information, including our own.
If you believe that the job was pulled off by a relatively small group of high ranking American traitors I doubt they would be stupid enough to place these trades.
Source
The Office of Censorship helped keep the Manhattan Project secret from its inception until the first bomb was dropped on Hiroshima by urging officials involved in the project to keep quiet and by asking the press and broadcasters to voluntarily censor information they learned about atomic energy or the project. As the Manhattan Project neared its crucial test and before the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, censorship officials sent out a confidential memo to editors and broadcasters on May 15, 1945, requesting continued vigilance in the censorship of:
"Scientific experiments.--The Code of Wartime Practices requests that nothing be published or broadcast about 'new or secret military weapons...experiments.' In extension of this highly vital precaution, you are asked not to publish or broadcast any information whatever regarding war experiments involving: Production or utilization of atom smashing, atomic energy, atomic fission, atomic splitting, or any of their equivalents; the use for military purposes of radium or radioactive materials, heavy water, high voltage discharge equipment, cyclotrons; the following elements or any of their compounds--polonium, uranium, ytterbium, hafnium, protactinium, radium, rhenium, thorium, deutrium."
That was not the first request for voluntary censorship of atomic-related information. Price noted in comments to reporters after the end of censorship that some 20,000 news outlets had been delivered similar requests. For the most part censors were able to keep sensitive information about the Manhattan Project from being published or broadcast. Slips of the tongue occurred with individuals knowledgeable about the project. The press itself was never responsible for publishing more than passing references to the project, except one article in the Cleveland Press entitled "Forbidden City," which detailed a secret project near Santa Fe, New Mexico, calling it "Uncle Sam's mystery town directed by scientist Einstein."
Originally posted by tide88
reply to post by Leo Strauss
I believe, correct me if I am wrong there were phone calls placed warning certain Israeli WTC employees not to come to work that day.
This is another lie. Never happened.
Odigo says workers were warned of attack
By Yuval Dror
Odigo, the instant messaging service, says that two of its workers received messages two hours before the Twin Towers attack on September 11 predicting the attack would happen, and the company has been cooperating with Israeli and American law enforcement, including the FBI, in trying to find the original sender of the message predicting the attack.
source
Odigo, which has a satellite office in Israel, said employees THERE received pop-up text messages containing advance warning of the attacks but said the IMs did not mention the World Trade Center specifically, or any other targets
Ummm. No they werent. The WTC was never even mentioned. Wow, thank god they warned those two people. They might have teleported from Israel to the WTC.
Employees of Israeli-owned Odigo were warned two hours in advance to stay away from the WTC towers, as reported by the Israeli newspaper
BTW, I am not saying it is coincidence. Their CEO is. The one that knows the full details of the text. More disinfo being spread by Golden. What a shocker. Man you are terrible at doing research. Really, think and check your sources before you post. You obviously believe whatever you read without researching it deeper. You are quickly becoming a joke. You might even surpass Ultima1.
"Without going into details, the message was most noteworthy due to the timing, not due to the substance of the 'warning.' It could easily be coincidence," Diamandis said
[Alex] Diamandis [Odigo vice president of sales and marketing] said it was possible that the attack warning was broadcast to other Odigo members, but the company has not received reports of other recipients of the message.” [HA'ARETZ, 9/26/2001; WASHINGTON POST, 9/27/2001]
Odigo claims the warning did not specifically mention the WTC, but the company refuses to divulge what was specified, claiming, “Providing more details would only lead to more conjecture.” [WASHINGTON POST, 9/28/2001] However, a later newspaper report claims that the message declared “that some sort of attack was about to take place. ‘The messages said something big was going to happen in a certain amount of time, and it did—almost to the minute,’ said Alex Diamandis, vice president of sales for the high-tech company… He said the employees did not know the person who sent the message, but they traced it to a computer address and have given that information to the FBI.” [WASHINGTON POST, 10/4/2001]
Odigo gave the FBI the Internet address of the message’s sender so the name of the sender could be found. [DEUTSCHE PRESSE-AGENTUR (HAMBURG), 9/26/2001] Two months later, it is reported that the FBI is still investigating the matter, but there have been no reports since. [COURIER MAIL, 11/20/2001]
Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
as someone who trades options contracts for a living, i certainly wanted to give a few cents of my input.
...moreover, there were more stocks with unusual put activity affected by 9/11 than just the airlines. the fact that MULTIPLE industry stocks had similar, unusual put volume and the only thing tying them together was their business was hurt by the attacks is simply not a coincidence. it really isnt. if you think it is, youre an idiot or brainwashed. these things do not happen with lack of consequence. and to think that options traders throw their money into trades randomly enough to make this a coincidence is even more silly. options are extremely volatile, and if you're wrong, you usually lose all your money.
not sure if i did a great job explaining this,
Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
all you need to know is these trades were enough to spawn investigations (that were never carried through to conclusion, much to our dismay), only weeks after the attacks. that says a lot. normally insider trading takes years to detect and substantiate. the fact that this was so readily apparent says its a lot more than a lucky bet on a terrible event.
and anyone in finance knows Deutsche is one of the darkest forces on the street. and may i also remind y'all- GWB's family, historically, is knee deep in profitting from misery. See: union banking corp and aiding the nazis.
Originally posted by matrixNIN11
Originally posted by EvilAxis
Rather than accept Tide88's judgement (which has been undermined by his failure to find anything suspicious about the implosion of WTC7)
its truly bizarre that 911 may be the most obvious and blatant conspiracy of all time, and these people (i struggle to call them that) SEE NOTHING.
the only logical conclusion i can come up with is they fall into one of 3 main categories:
they're either in denial
they either haven't done any real research
or they're part of the coverup.
Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
...moreover, there were more stocks with unusual put activity affected by 9/11 than just the airlines. the fact that MULTIPLE industry stocks had similar, unusual put volume and the only thing tying them together was their business was hurt by the attacks is simply not a coincidence. it really isnt. if you think it is, youre an idiot or brainwashed. these things do not happen with lack of consequence. and to think that options traders throw their money into trades randomly enough to make this a coincidence is even more silly. options are extremely volatile, and if you're wrong, you usually lose all your money.
all you need to know is these trades were enough to spawn investigations (that were never carried through to conclusion, much to our dismay), only weeks after the attacks. that says a lot. normally insider trading takes years to detect and substantiate. the fact that this was so readily apparent says its a lot more than a lucky bet on a terrible event.
and anyone in finance knows Deutsche is one of the darkest forces on the street. and may i also remind y'all- GWB's family, historically, is knee deep in profitting from misery. See: union banking corp and aiding the nazis.
Originally posted by chaeone86
Could this be part of a larger trading strategy?
Of course, its possible, but in my mind, its still highly unlikely. Macro trading funds (ones that seek returns from global market movements) rarely, if ever realize positions utilizing vanilla equities (stocks). They usually trade options on index funds, exchange traded funds, and other products that track, with relevant precision, moves in the global market. If we were able to locate corresponding positions being taken in large global indexes matching those taken on the individual stocks in question (UAL, MS, etc) then maybe your assertion could be verified. Historical data on these figures is time consuming to analyze and expensive (especially going back 8 years) so i wouldn't bet money on some ATS member having the time or resources to verify this.
Further, I doubt even the greatest macro traders (George Soros would be a good example) would be able to make a rationale for these taking these vastly unrelated positions prior to 9/11. As i mentioned previously, theres no thread tying together these stocks other than their direct relationship to the attacks. Sure, when you look at the dow and these companies from the vantage point of 2009, it seems like put options were the best idea ever. But prior to 9/11, any fund manager presenting such a strategy to investors would get laughed out of the boardroom. So again, i really doubt this was the "finely-crafted" strategy of a macro fund, unless that fund had specific knowledge about the attacks.
Again, theres also NO balance between the put and call volumes on these stocks, which further belies the involvement of foreknowledge. Any serious fund, with investors to be held accountable to, wouldn't ever take this type of risk. It's really unheard of, and I know thats tough for anyone to understand unless they've traded options before and have a good understanding of volatility.
finally- if you look at the dow technicals in 01, any active trader would be anticipating a recovery from the mid-point of july onward. If you notice, May saw the years high-point, followed by a sell off into a support just around 10252 at july 29th, 2001.
[snip]
So we have either a gaggle of idiot investors who saw the greatest lucky streak of the millennium (on a day already full of such inexplicable black swan coincidences). Or insider trading. hmm
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