Article w/Source - Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan

good heavens ,seems like everyone is getting hot under the collar before anything happens

let's all take a deep breath and put on our grown up hats
dialogue about this when there is something to talk about,if you have health insurance and you can pay the ever increasing premiums,and the out pocket and the prescriptions well may I suggest you are not even in the loop

you're being tracked plenty right now ,radio shacks wants all your personal information address phone number work phone number they get your credit card number

and your bank sells all your account info to anyone with 60 bucks that wants it

Originally posted by Soloman Kane
reply to post by GirlNextDoor

 

you are a spirit ,you have a soul ,you reside in a body.

Hey, I like that!

Isn't the Doctor best qualified to make this judgment for patients. This is extremely disturbing. I hope people wake the # up!

More than ever, it's time to get as healthy as possible and stay healthy for as long as possible. The less you need to rely on a socialized system, the better, IMO. I know that's not possible for everyone (pre-existing conditions, genetic factors, etc.). But it seems it would be wise to do what you can to prevent problems later. I realize that's a wise way to live anyway, but this puts the importance into focus.

reply to post by invisiblewoman


Yeah, prior generations allowed governments to knock them down and trample over them. And because of it, Governments around the world invade our privacy, poison our food, our water, and our air. They tell you what to do, how to think, and they mold our children into quiet brainwashed taxpayers.

It has to stop, and it has to stop now. I really don't give a crap about what has been done over the last 200 years that led us here anymore. If you don't think that this is "that bad" you are a part of the problem. Telling the elderly that they must forgoe treatment? What gives you or the government the right to force a doctor to allow his patient wither and die like that? Are you people fracken sick? That will be you some day, don't come crying to me or anyone else when your number is up.

I am a former IT professional and a consumer of health care due to a pre-existing condition. It is not a good idea to allow the government to be a central repository of medical information without lots of guards against the lack of data integrity that already runs rampant in every data set kept since the dawn of time.

Data integrity is laughable when it comes to any IT system. The data is only as good as whoever puts it into the system. Medical data already is rather poorly kept - and just making it standardized won't help.

Sorry, but I have worked in many fields as an analyst - for creating IT systems - and the health care IT groups are the absolute worst. Their attitudes and ways of doing things would get them fired in any other industry.

Issues I have seen over and over again is a lack of actually investigating how people do their jobs - from nurses to doctors to the differences between the specialties. All of the current work has been built off of billing, which is not necessarily conducive to patient care.

Now, having access to records easily would be conducive to better care. The problem is that most medical records are poorly. I know in my own records, I had some idiot input that I was an "occasional drinker" on the same sheet that said I was allergic to ingested alcohol. So, the records are only of limited use due to problems with data entry.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere

Hence, the elderly will be left to die, many cancers will be untreated, maintenance procedures wont continue once the patient reaches a certain age etc...

Yes kill the unborn on demand, eliminate the sick and the feebleminded and the elderly,

HMMMMM sounds familiar.

And why isn't there a topic on the Census transferred over to Rahm Emmanuel this is hugh.



[edit on 082828p://bTuesday2009 by Stormdancer777]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by burdman30ott6

 

Asking for clarification is not AT ALL the same as defending it. Maybe you don't care what the truth of the matter is, but before I make a judgment, I want the FACTS, not some re-worded, speculative opinion on it.

The problem with clarification is, you trust the guy pushing the bill?

They will spin, double talk and confuse.

Heck they flat OUT LIE!

Originally posted by camain
being an IT manager in the health care industry, and having my wife be a nurse in the ER of a hospital, I am in favor of this. YOu have to understand why they are doing this. THere are to many people on welfare, medicaid, medicare that feel the the ER is the primary care physician. You can go in, and get what you need, when you want it, and there is no accountablity. Lets say someone goes to the ER every week complaining of severe pain. The doctor gives them some IV pain med, and gives them a prescription of Loratab for 1 week. Tells them to follow up with the doctor. Here is the issue. THat one week gives them over 100 pills. 100 pills that on the street can sell for 3 dollars each. They can go in every week, and sell it on the street and turn a 1200 profit without any problems right now. Lets talk about the fact that there is no co-pay for someone to come into the ER via ambulance for a head cold. Its all paid for, the reason for the ambulance is because they get in faster then walking in. Again thats inefficancy.

....

This is all a good thing. If you want to talk about tracking and monitoring, there is nothing hear that you haven't already given them, all this is doing is centralizing the data. You will get a card that has an ID number. That ID number will connect to a national emr, when you swipe your card, your data is downloaded to the local EMR of the location that your at. when you leave the location, all that data is uploaded back to the national EMR, that where regardless of where you are, that data is preserved and carried over.

They won't put your data directly on the card, and if they think that they are, there stupid, its a hippa violation.



Our Health industry is broken, this is just the beginning on repairing it,

Just my opinion,

camain

[edit on 10-2-2009 by camain]

Well first of all, thank you for your wife's service

I have a family member (and an Acquaintance) currently going into Nursing, and it is a job field which currently has a serious need/requirement for Professional, Compassionate, and Competent individuals. Having experience with Health Care myself, I know how important Nurses are, as they are the ones who truly determine whether a Patient's Experience is a Good or Bad one.

Also, thank you for your contributions to the Health Care field as well

However, in terms of "Record Sharing", whatever happened to a Fax Machine? It cannot be Hacked, it does not succumb to Spyware and/or Viruses, and it relies on a Stable, and easily Repaired Telecommunications System. I am ALL for the sharing of Health Records between Hospitals and such, that is okay. However, we must get away from this idea that Digital Information can somehow be a replacement for Paper Records. If some tragedy occurs, and/or systems become shut down, then what? I say allow the Computer Based Secure File Access, but keep utilizing the Paper Records as a back-up at the very least, AND scrap the rest of the garbage in this Line Item.

The only Item which should be in this Section of the Bill, is a Single Line, declaring the Computer Based sharing of Medical Records between Hospitals and Relevant Physicians. That is all. All of the other junk is nothing more than bureaucratic "Red Tape".

[edit on 2-10-2009 by TheAgentNineteen]

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by burdman30ott6

 

Asking for clarification is not AT ALL the same as defending it. Maybe you don't care what the truth of the matter is, but before I make a judgment, I want the FACTS, not some re-worded, speculative opinion on it.

The problem with clarification is, you trust the guy pushing the bill?

They will spin, double talk and confuse.

Heck they flat OUT LIE!

This entire debate in both the Upper and Lower Houses has turned into nothing more than a despicable parsing of words.

I heard two different individuals state that: "President Obama was correct, there are NO Earmarks in this Bill, Earmarks are when a Congressional Official asks for a certain amount of money to be allocated for Projects in their own District. However, there is Pork".

This is nothing but a complete twisting and manipulation of terminology. Earmark = Pork, and Pork = Earmark.

An Earmark is ANY item placed upon a Bill which has NO relevance to the Subject Matter, nor Original Purpose of the Bill itself, upon which it has been placed. I mean seriously folks, what in the World is "$5,000 for the 'Weatherization' of Each Dwelling Unit" going to do in terms of our Economy? I heard some clown state that this would "Create jobs for people installing Power Meters on homes". What a JOKE. The same is true for this Health Care aspect. Record Sharing will NOT do anything for our Economy, but it will rather cost needless dollars to implement. The same is true with "Green Energy", "Space Exploration", and all of the other Recycled Junk in this Bill.

Every item has its place and time, and nearly 50% of this Bill seems to be Misplaced.

I hate to say it. But Americans seem to be pesimistic as hell. Like some have already stated in this thread, there are thousands if not millions of people in the states who are rejected treatment every day. It's brutal I'm aware of this living in Canada. Yes surprise, we actually get satellite now. Living in igloos can be such a pain.

Anyways, no health care system is perfect. Why Americans have such a huge fear of "socialized" health care amazes me. I didnt think you guys were still living in the cold war. Here in Canada, I can afford my health care. I believe I pay a whopping $500 a year for it. Thats canadian currency. So ice cubes. Trust me we try to spend it as quickly as possible. The phrase burning a whole in your pocket totally dosent apply.

All I'm trying to get at, is that yes your government is trying to enslave you. Thats normal. Like comeon, they have only spent the past 100 or so years trying to do it. The funny part is, none of you are doing anything about it. For crying out loud its happening here in Canada, and all I can do is ream out my MLA who is completely oblivious to the woes of the country. So, read a book, do some research, and you'll find that these "socialist" ideals, arent the spawn of hitler after all. If I had cancer, it wouldnt cost me anything to get the treatment I needed. So let me ask you this, what would it cost you to get the treatment?

Anyways, just thought I'd throw a canucs opinion in there. Have a good one!

Time to wake up people. As a lifelong hospital care giver I applaud any efforts to reduce the over treatment of patients with little or no chance of surviving to live a long life, let alone a quality one. It's time we grew up and took responsibility for dying with dignity, with approval, and without fear. Trying to save some who's lifestyles put them in their dire situation is noble but fiscally irresponsible and pretends to overlook the sins of their lives. Time to act resonsibly, be resonsible, and set precedent for living responsibly to be fair to all. We can still be compassionate and caring and give the idea of dying its nobility while dispelling the fear.

reply to post by Jenna


"So, basically some Board somewhere will decide who will get treatment...."

That's the gist of your statement. Problem is, this IS ALREADY the case, under the unregulated system known as 'insurance'. People who pay into insurance policies for decades, then are denied claims.....THAT is something to be in an uproar about!

Medical records are, and shall continue to be, protected under HIPA laws.

THIS is what to look for, in considering further digitizing of medical information and histories: IF the medical records are going to be digitized, then they need to be encrypted, and strict controls over who and why and when anyone can look at them.

I mean, IF I CAN trust PayPal with my ebay transactions, then I think this is doable.

Go visit your doctor.....LOOK at the files. LOOK at how they're tabbed. At least in the case of MY doctor, everything is on paper....except maybe for records of appointment visits that exist in his IN HOUSE computer, which are likely pruged periodically anyway....but who cares?

OR, the MD might take notes, in his PERSONAL encoded/encrypted files....but, every medical pro who cares about his/her license understands the laws regarding privacy.

Sheesh! Trying hard to be paranoid, are we?

I have nothing in MY medical records to hide.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Jenna

 

THIS is what to look for, in considering further digitizing of medical information and histories: IF the medical records are going to be digitized, then they need to be encrypted, and strict controls over who and why and when anyone can look at them.

That idea sounds good on paper but in the real world where I work as a nurse, restricting access will be disastrous to healthcare delivery. We had perfectly acceptable confidentiality laws regarding protected health care information long before HIPPA was invented. It solved nothing, information is still leaked, we all have to have yearly re-training on this stupid law; it was redundant and totally unnecessary. I can give you several examples of why encrypting info and then restricting access won't work if you'd like.


I mean, IF I CAN trust PayPal with my ebay transactions, then I think this is doable.

Few people care if the entire world finds out they have a beanie baby collection from ebay but, I dare say, most people would care very much that the entire world knows they have Herpes. Digital records are hackable. This has been proven by recent events. Faxed, hand-carried (medical chart travels with patient), snail-mailed records are not.

I have nothing in MY medical records to hide.

Many people do. I can think of any number of things people would not want their friends, family, co-workers finding out about: STD's, unplanned pregnancies, sex-change operations, hemorrhoid surgery, botox treatments, etc.

reply to post by whitewave


Thanks, ww....

What say you about the nightmare reports of Insurance companies denying claims on the flimsiest of reasons?

Irrespective of your post, IF my PCP didn't refer me to any outside procedures, then everythin in my files is proprietary, right?

But, supposing I'm diagnosed by my PCP with colon cancer, and am refered out of office....is THIS a possible way for medical records to be hacked? Since they change hands?

How do other Westernized nations do it, and manage to do it so well, when we have 'Chicken Littles' running around the USA claiming the 'Sky is Falling'????

This should not be presented with the Stimulus plan first of all. Secondly the Stimulus plan stinks even without it. The point is the Health Plan needs its own time and its own vote.

With the most left wing, uncompromising Senator now in the Saddle, you are surprised why? Folks, this is just the beginning of their atttempts to introduce communism into America. However, the legal group that was one of the 17 who were ignored by the SCOTUS has promised to file suit contesting EVERY bill signed by the Kenyan. Probably dismissed, but making it the utmost difficult to do anything. Which is what I like. A completely ineffectual Fed. THEN, we are safe.

reply to post by camain


Being a nurse, help me understand this,

"the ER is the primary care physician. You can go in, and get what you need, when you want it, and there is no accountablity. Lets say someone goes to the ER every week complaining of severe pain. The doctor gives them some IV pain med, and gives them a prescription of Loratab for 1 week. Tells them to follow up with the doctor. Here is the issue. THat one week gives them over 100 pills. 100 pills that on the street can sell for 3 dollars each. They can go in every week, and sell it on the street and turn a 1200 profit without any problems right now. "

So the doctor's are basically drug pushers? They do not have to comply to the rules and regulations imposed by the board of pharmacy or the DEA?
You make it sound like they give out pain med like it is 'pezz'.
Here is how this works you have severe pain, the Dr. in ER writes for maybe 15-20 tabs or less until you can follow up with PCP. If the patient shows up in a week looking for more pain med., The physician has 3 choices, he can either admit and run more tests, to try and find cause. He can refuse to write another prescription recognizing drug-seeking behavior. He can write another script (in a wk) and a major red flag will go up to first pharmacy and then to DEA. and now his license is in jeopardy.

If your argument is, so there will be accountability the Dr.'s are already being held accountable when it comes to prescriptions of controlled substance's. So what you stated really doesn't make sense.

As far quick transfer of nursing home patients records. name, id bracelet
and brief medical history including allergies is all that is needed for the patient to be transferred to another facility. A nurse then calls ahead and gives a verbal report. Any other records can be faxed ASAP.

Again, the argument is loose at best. Not good enough reasons for the govt.
to be looking at my personal and private records.

The system will be as good or as bad as those who operate it. Just like the system we have now. Granted there will be some snafus in the early years- all change (implicitly including all progress) is destabilizing in the short term. But the most powerful factor in the quality or lackthereof in our medical system will remain essentially the same.

The difference? The same people operate it for all, and we all do well or poorly together depending on how well we hold the operators (personified in the president and the new secy) accountable for their performance.

So its major flaw is identical with that of our current system, but this way we get democratic control. Also, localized care gaps which essentially create a correlation between wealth and care are somewhat diminished. And before you conservatives jump on that last sentence, please note the inescapable suggestion that worthiness to be saved is something one must purchase- scarcely different at all from suggesting that worthiness to live is something which must be purchased... (and that's when I start accusing you of violating the pro-life plank of the republican platform, completely ignoring the objections of libertarians on the grounds that I live in fear of many of their candidates and don't want to be on their short list if they ever attain power). So for the love of babies and Ron Paul, nobody try to defend healthcare disparities between economic classes.


Short answer: This system will have a rough start, within a few years will return to present standards, possibly with modest improvements, and in the longer term it offers a new approach to an old problem which IF successful, theoretically could create a quantum leap in our standard of care.

I say go for it. It's a break even or modest gain proposition in the mid-term outlook, and setting it up gives Americans something they desperately need right now: something to do (both in the sense of employment and in the sense that this nation has been at a near idle on the domestic front since the 1970s and desperately needs to start setting societal goals again).

Jeez, there are some Luddites talking here.

This is the 21st Century - PAPER is OBSOLETE!

I am a Nurse in the UK - YES, ''socialised healthcare'' if you want to call it that to make you feel happy - I work for the NHS which is run by the DoH .... the Government.

Currently underway is a National Healthcare Records Program for digitalising patients healthcare records - True it is over budget and is not up and running fully yet.

I will have a celebration the day that patients' records are fully available on the Computer and the paper ones are consigned to the incinerator.

Paper records are a bloody nightmare to work with, almost impossible to read (doctors cannot write clearly) and are in such a state that they are falling to bits, not to mention that some patients' notes run into several volumes that need trolleys to wheel them around from ward to ward. The system is archaic and should be consigned to the dustbin.

Apart from the above, WHY should I spend 50-60% of my working time writing in patients' notes when I could actually be giving them some care? For those of you who do not work in a busy hospital, you have no idea of the amount of paperwork that is involved in just one patient.

It is very obvious to me, that MOST people that are writing in this thread do NOT work in Healthcare.