Article w/Source - Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan

www.bloomberg.com...

This is an alarming article....which includes this -

"The bill’s health rules will affect “every individual in the United States” (445, 454, 479). Your medical treatments will be tracked electronically by a federal system. Having electronic medical records at your fingertips, easily transferred to a hospital, is beneficial. It will help avoid duplicate tests and errors.

But the bill goes further. One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and “guide” your doctor’s decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in his 2008 book, “Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis.” According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and “learn to operate less like solo practitioners.”

[edit on 10-2-2009 by prjct]



mod edit to add [ex] quote tags

[edit on 10-2-2009 by DontTreadOnMe]

So basically some board somewhere will get to decide who gets what treatment if any. I'm sure a group of people, at least some of whom most likely won't have any medical training whatsoever, who have never personally examined someone have a better idea about what treatment and testing that person should receive than their own doctor.

And who cares about the elderly, they should just grin and bear any pain they may be in. Who cares? They won't benefit from treatment for long, so why waste time trying to at least make them comfortable in their final years.

Better hope you aren't one of the lucky few who have something rare. After all, those pesky new and/or experimental treatments and tests just cost more money and we should always do the cheapest thing possible. Who cares if it isn't quite right for your condition, at least a lot of money won't be spent on it.



You know what I would like to see? A law passed that says congress can't tuck anything into any particular bill that isn't in the title. If it's called a federal budget, nothing else gets put in but the budget. If it's called a stimulus bill, nothing else gets put in but tax cuts and cash infusions. None of this sneaking health care stuff in and then trying to rush it through before anyone catches on.

I'm amazed there hasn't been more of a response about this yet.

I want to respond to this, but I am not quite sure how.
I mean part of the "anti-estalishment" part of me wants to say "NO I.D CHIPS< NO ELECTRONIC MED RECORDS!!"

The other part of me wants to say "No I.D CHIPS,NO ELECTRONIC MED RECORDS!"

Thanks for posting this article. I just read it this morning and coffee came out of my nose. So, naturally, I logged onto ATS.

This is scary stuff folks. The vagueness and open ended nature of the this seldom mentioned aspect of the stimulus is mind numbing.

Some fat head pencil pusher in DC is going to have the authority to dictate the best treatment protocols to your doctor based on pre-established guidelines concerning cost and general effectiveness. Better yet, doctors who don't ascribe to the guidelines could be penalized. What the hell is going on?

This is going to create a medical industry based on apathy and status quo. "Sorry, the computer program says I can't do that" So much for medical school, internships and residency programs. So much for hands on learning and mentoring. Say goodbye to the best doctors in the world. Doctors who come to the US to learn and perfect their skills so that they may share with those in their home countries will find somewhere else to learn. Perhaps Grenada.

THis will eventually create a system of small private hospitals that hire the best doctors and charge a premium only to those who have the actual CASH to spend on their services.

This is big brother to the max and people will suffer and die because of it. I won't even discuss the implications of the digital medical records aspect of this. Not to mention the countless numbers of people who will lose jobs because of it. (File clerks, receptionists, Hospital couriers etc) If you've ever been to a large hospital these people are everywhere. This is an open revolving door to hackers and thieves. A computer failure/virus would cripple the industry.

I am pissed off by more of this Socialistic BS. Thanks to the Daschle, Obama brain trust on this one.

On a side note, Biden was just quoted as saying that there is a 30% chance that this massive spending bill won't work. Obama is not happy with little Joey.


[edit on 10-2-2009 by jibeho]

wow.. unbelievable.. I can't believe i missed this on bloomberg..
this is terrible... and i thought the story I just made a thread on was bad..

It just shows the true greed and evil, immoral souls of those at the top.. we gotta fight back now more than ever.. oppose the stimulus package. MAKE IT EVIDENT TO ALL THAT THIS IS BAD NEWS!!

Star+Flag
thank you for posting

Your source is an opinion piece. It doesn't source to the particular sections in the bill that it's using to make the claims in the OpEd. I did some searching of the bill and cannot find the claims being made in the OpEd. That's not to say they aren't there, but I believe the author is taking quite a bit of poetic license in "interpreting" the bill.

A link to the particular claims IN THE BILL (not someone's opinion) would be helpful in denying ignorance. Otherwise, this is all just opinion.

Well, it is my opinion that this shows Obama's use of fear-mongering and hyperbolic language are his veiled attempt to pass the beginnings of socialized medicine, socialized banks, socialized government. This is no different than Bush ramming through the Patriot Act and trampling civil liberties under the fear-mongering language of terrorism.

Anytime legislation is pushed through without proper review and debate, alarm bells should go off.

This is piracy and enslavement. Nothing more. Nothing new.

This must be part of the hope and change that the majority of the American public asked for.. When they find themselves unable to get needed medical treatment, I hope they remember who they voted for. Ol' Dubya won't be around to kick anymore.

yes, clearly this is an opinion piece or commentary as it clearly states........it's "front and center" over at drudge, no quite sure what that means though, and i can only hope that Betsy McCaughey is not just yanking our chains......i give bloomberg a thumbs up for credibility though, and it's my guess that with some digging we can find whether or not there is any truth to this.......

lets get digging folks!

Well, here's the current text of the bill for a start:
American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009

And the Bloomberg article sites page numbers. Time to start reading for ourselves.

[edit on 2/10/09 by GirlNextDoor]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


So.. Im sure you are all for this then huh. Because it does not matter if it's an opinion or not, Which I am sure this is for real, You will surely never come out and say it.

I grow tired of your lipservice to the One.

Originally posted by GirlNextDoor
And the Bloomberg article sites page numbers. Time to start reading for ourselves.

Unfortunately, there are no page numbers on that document. If you had looked at it, you'd know that.

Secondly, I found the PDF and cannot find the word "monitor" in the entire document. The OP's source got the name of the department wrong, so I'm not inclined to believe this at all.

It's up to the person making the claim to prove it. I've spent 15 minutes trying to find this to no avail. I'm not going to further waste my time. But I agree, if you want people to believe you, you should find proof.

H.R.1 American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (Engrossed as Agreed to or Passed by House) `Subtitle A--Promotion of Health Information Technology `SEC. 3001. OFFICE OF THE NATIONAL COORDINATOR FOR HEALTH INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY. `
(a) Establishment- There is established within the Department of Health and Human Services an Office of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology (referred to in this section as the `Office'). The Office shall be headed by a National Coordinator who shall be appointed by the Secretary and shall report directly to the Secretary. `
(b) Purpose- The National Coordinator shall perform the duties under subsection (c) in a manner consistent with the development of a nationwide health information technology infrastructure that allows for the electronic use and exchange of information and that--
`(1) ensures that each patient's health information is secure and protected, in accordance with applicable law; `
(2) improves health care quality, reduces medical errors, reduces health disparities, and advances the delivery of patient-centered medical care;
`(3) reduces health care costs resulting from inefficiency, medical errors, inappropriate care, duplicative care, and incomplete information; `(4) provides appropriate information to help guide medical decisions at the time and place of care; `
(5) ensures the inclusion of meaningful public input in such development of such infrastructure;
`(6) improves the coordination of care and information among hospitals, laboratories, physician offices, and other entities through an effective infrastructure for the secure and authorized exchange of health care information; `
(7) improves public health activities and facilitates the early identification and rapid response to public health threats and emergencies, including bioterror events and infectious disease outbreaks;
`(8) facilitates health and clinical research and health care quality; `(9) promotes prevention of chronic diseases; `(
10) promotes a more effective marketplace, greater competition, greater systems analysis, increased consumer choice, and improved outcomes in health care services; and `
(11) improves efforts to reduce health disparities.

Read them and weep. Especially #4

Buried within the document. How the technology dept. should oversee this is beyond me

(C) OTHER AREAS FOR CONSIDERATION- In making recommendations under subparagraph (A), the HIT Policy Committee may consider the following additional areas: `
(i) The appropriate uses of a nationwide health information infrastructure, including for purposes of-- `(
I) the collection of quality data and public reporting; `
(II) biosurveillance and public health; `
(III) medical and clinical research; and `
(IV) drug safety.

Anyone familiar with "biosurveillance"?

Add:

SEC. 3010. AUTHORIZATION FOR APPROPRIATIONS.
`There is authorized to be appropriated to the Office of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology to carry out this subtitle $250,000,000 for fiscal year 2009.'.

[edit on 10-2-2009 by jibeho]

thanks for finding this........we'll have to confirm that this is in the final bill, or not....i think they - the senate - is voting on this now @ 12:26EST.....

nice work!!

Originally posted by jibeho

`(4) provides appropriate information to help guide medical decisions at the time and place of care; `

Read them and weep. Especially #4

That doesn't say anything about "monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective". It says it will PROVIDE information.

Just as I thought. The author of the Op Ed is speculating and basically making things up.

Thanks for finding it.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I'm not done reading the document. The govt. website has seized any further viewing of the bill at the moment. I went back to the directory and was shut out. I will try again. Needless to say, the reading is quite boring. Great bathroom material ha ha ha. You need a lawyer just to read this thing.

As for number four. The language is very vague and that is what worries me. The doctor will have to consult with a designated agent or program. There is also a lack of a clear meaning as to just what "guiding medical decisions at the time and place of care" will entail. I can deduce that this means at your doctors office or the hospital.

That language is far to gray for me.

Is anybody surprised? This is government health care. If you arent going to be paying into the system the system cannot provide for you even if it wanted to.

Hence, the elderly will be left to die, many cancers will be untreated, maintenance procedures wont continue once the patient reaches a certain age etc...

The deal with the elderly of course will be embraced with the spin of "shouldnt they be allowed to die with dignity?" kind of crap. Like there arent a million ways to kill yourself without a doctor?

The British already have strict treatment cut-offs over there. Operable brain tumor? We'll get back to you in 18 months if you're still alive. Macular degeneration? Cone see us once you've lost vision. (that way they dont have to waste money treating you and can just tell you it's too late you're blind.)

Government doesnt care about you and even if it wanted to it couldnt afford to. When will people get that through their heads?

It's all about eugenics and maintaining a working livestock for the governments and idiots beg for their chance to be mules, complain that they arent mules and vote (for what it's worth) to become mules.

Good job people.

Originally posted by Jenna
So basically some board somewhere will get to decide who gets what treatment if any. I'm sure a group of people, at least some of whom most likely won't have any medical training whatsoever, who have never personally examined someone have a better idea about what treatment and testing that person should receive than their own doctor.

This is already being done by insurance companies. They routinely deny coverage of operations and treatments which they determine to be not needed despite the view of the doctor. Unless your paying cash for everything, your medical treatments are already being scrutinized.