My friend saw alliens

Hi, I'm new to ATS and was just reading through some threads and thought I'd make a few comments here and there. I do feel that actually it is possible that your friend did communicate with ETs, it is well established that ETs communicate through telepathy, although again, it is also possible she suffers from a mental illness. This kind of thing cannot really be verified with evidence, although if she seriously thinks she is communicating with ETs then seeking proffessional help to establish her mental state would be wise.

Originally posted by thrashee
you are only going to get three general replies here on ATS: 1) The idiots who will use this as fuel to propagate their own beliefs (they'll go so far as to explain exactly how aliens DO, in fact communicate mentally, even though they'll have zero evidence for this), [edit on 10-2-2009 by thrashee]

Politely, I think it's important to respect other individuals, no matter how much you disagree with their points of view, and naming them as 'idiots' I find is a shame. As it is, obviously there is no public scientific knowledge of telepathy and mental communications with ETs, but sidelining people with 'beliefs' and 'zero evidence' concerning the Extraterrestrial phenomena to be honest misses the 'evidence' that does include ET contact such as Dr Stephen Greer's multiple witness accounts of seeing craft, and actually contacting craft with lasers, lights and electromagnetic devices, which does include meditation, a so called 'zero evidence' appliance.

This form of communication can simply not be placed in a labratory or verified as hard fact, I mean, we are talking about ufos and Ets, we are going to have to find alternate means of verifying 'evidence' and also accounting for proof in alternate fashions. If you wish to place science as your God, nothing will ever be proven, because you are relying on current methodoligies of our time, our current means to provide proof.

I think basically it is not unscientific to take in other corroboratory evidence such as photographic, video, radar, multiple witness accounts, documentation etc to establish a link between mental activities. Unfortunately if we want to continuously rely on our current mainstream science, which by the way is flawed, does make mistakes such as the Condon Report etc, then science will never be able to evaluate certain aspects of reality. This simply does mean 'well you can then say anything is possible' because there are other elements to take into account, other verifying factors.

Originally posted by thrashee
2) the obnoxious skeptics like myself who think your friend is either an attention seeker or is simply bored, [edit on 10-2-2009 by thrashee]

I am skeptical personally, healthy skeptism is a good thing, but I wonder and am wary of individuals who will never accept another possibility than their own because 'science' dictates certain rules, when infact those rules change with time anyway. It becomes cynical really, and that is something I think people on ATS should be wary of, skeptism to the point of cynicism is dangerous, close minded and essentially will remain as it is, a minority, for example, the majority of people on this planet think that ufos are real, 80% of the American public for instance think they are real, and also a large percentage think that the US Government is not being truthful about ufos etc.

I feel again, it is a shame to simply label individuals, rather than actually taking in the complexities of ideas and thoughts, and actual evidence which simply does not place everyone under simply three banners.

Not something that I talk about too much, but yes, I've had, what I strongly believe, telepathic contact with an ET presence. In my very house.

That was a very scary couple of weeks.

I finally told them to get the hell lost, in almost those exact terms... No problems since. Very well could have been all in my head, but if so, they were VERY strong delusions.

reply to post by maarduk


Yours is THE best first post I have ever seen here at ATS....Welcome.
If I may now take this opportunity to quote A member-Mods post from:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
The moronic tyranny of the "there´s no proof" crowd
Skyfloating:

Those who officially call themselves "skeptics" mustnt hog the title for themselves

^ I need to ask Skyfloating if I may use this as a sig line!

When I see someone posting far-out-theory in SkunkWorks or anywhere else on this board, he has my greatest awe and respect. He has expanded his mind beyond the confines of the hive-mind that preaches consensus-reality in the guise of "skepticism", ever in need of approval from the intellectual "establishment".

There are more pearls of wisdom in that thread. Please check it out.
Again, welcome.

I hope the OP has not been too put off to continue.

The telepathy aspect of her question is interesting.

Peace

It seems to me that for we who do experience things, who are open to these things and who do not require corroboration beyond our own personal experience (I certainly don't need to file a report or have my head checked to know that I have seen something or been somewhere) that we are considerably more accepting of others' experiences too. Perhaps if you skeptics opened your mind, your eyes and your hearts a bit wider, you too could have some of these experiences. We "experiencers" are not in any way special. We're not different. We're just not closed to these things. I have often wondered why there are so many stories about pain inflicted by aliens and demons and so forth. I have never had any problem with such threats and I have had contact with many kinds of beings. Is my soul on a level at which they know they have no power? I see angels, I feel them. I see ghosts and I help them free themselves. Why is that just too hard to deal with for so many people? Why is "scientific documentation" and "objective study" the de rigueur response for so many here? I ask you, would you really even believe it if definitive evidence were produced? Who has that kind of clout? Who won't be discredited by the skeptics?

Nothing will satisfy that need to disbelieve because the disbelief is founded in fear.

Do you question scientists when they tell you something? No, because they are accredited by an authority for whom you have some inexplicable respect. How many times are they utterly and completely wrong? Pretty often, if you keep up with news in the scientific realms. But you sit there and shout for direct evidence from we who actually practice these things as de facto aspects of our daily lives.

This is about as fruitful as trying to explain a particular color to someone who is colorblind. How can it be done? When their sensory organs aren't capable of detecting it, does it make it less true? Please think about that and stop with the mindless harassment. When you can't participate, watch from the sidelines.

Apologies in advance for the length of this but it's really become an irritation and I've only been back here for two days.

[edit on 10/2/2009 by CosmicEgg]

@CosmicEgg

Fantastic posting. Great words. The truth was finally spoken.
Thank you very much.

Greetings

reply to post by TheWriter


Hello, Writer. I like your signature there. Great minds and all. lol

When I was little, when something upset me, I used to say that it "peeved my goat". This was a hybrid of two idioms for those who don't know: gets my goat and pet peeves. I guess the closest it could get to me is that my goat would be peeved as I tend not to become emotionally attached to an argument as a rule, but this sort of thing just really peeves my goat (bless her soul). lol

I wish I had a goat or several. They're so lovely...

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
Perhaps if you skeptics opened your mind, your eyes and your hearts a bit wider, you too could have some of these experiences. We "experiencers" are not in any way special. We're not different. We're just not closed to these things.

Oh, bull hockey. I get tired of hearing how skeptics don't believe these claims simply because they're not open minded (or hearted, which has absolutely nothing to do with anything) enough. All this is is a special pleading for people to put aside rational thought in order to accommodate your stories. Furthermore, you're going on to suggest that being open minded to these things somehow has a causal relation to these things actually happening. Care to support THAT with any kind of evidence, or should we just be open minded enough to take your word for it?

I have often wondered why there are so many stories about pain inflicted by aliens and demons and so forth. I have never had any problem with such threats and I have had contact with many kinds of beings. Is my soul on a level at which they know they have no power? I see angels, I feel them. I see ghosts and I help them free themselves.

Bingo. And now you know why us skeptics don't believe you: you weren't being truthful when you stated you were "nothing special". Obviously you are quite special, as your soul is so far advanced, you communicate with angels, and you actually give ghosts a helping hand. Nothing special indeed!

There is a peculiar psychological/social phenomena that exists on ATS, and I'm afraid I think you're a perfect specimen of it. For some people, making up such kinds of things or actually believing in them fulfills some ego need to be special. I wonder if the number of extraordinary entities in which the person is in contact with is directly proportional to how great that ego need is.

Why is that just too hard to deal with for so many people? Why is "scientific documentation" and "objective study" the de rigueur response for so many here? I ask you, would you really even believe it if definitive evidence were produced? Who has that kind of clout? Who won't be discredited by the skeptics?

Those things are asked for because it's how man has been objectively attempting to define the world in which he lives for a long time. And perhaps if you considered how many extraordinary stories and myths have been given throughout the history of man, you might appreciate why evidence and study is so highly regarded. Furthermore, claiming that nothing is good enough for a skeptic is an old, tired response when you know that YOU can't prove anything.

Nothing will satisfy that need to disbelieve because the disbelief is founded in fear.

Bull hockey. And another tired response from a believer who can't prove squat. You have no clue what I'd like to believe in...actually, you should, as I already mentioned a few of those things earlier in this thread. So spare me the "you're just too afraid" routine.

Do you question scientists when they tell you something? No, because they are accredited by an authority for whom you have some inexplicable respect. How many times are they utterly and completely wrong? Pretty often, if you keep up with news in the scientific realms. But you sit there and shout for direct evidence from we who actually practice these things as de facto aspects of our daily lives.

Wow, you must be going off a believer's checklist here, hitting every predictable response. Now you'll attempt to undermine the importance and authority of science by citing examples of how it's not infallible; but anyone with half a brain can see through this thin routine--you're only attacking science because by scientific standards, you have absolutely no proof whatsoever. Convenient that you should attack that under which you fail to qualify for support. Of course, if you HAD any type of scientific evidence, I'm sure you'd be cheering science on.

This is about as fruitful as trying to explain a particular color to someone who is colorblind. How can it be done? When their sensory organs aren't capable of detecting it, does it make it less true? Please think about that and stop with the mindless harassment. When you can't participate, watch from the sidelines.

Wait, I thought you were nothing special, remember? But now you're patronizing me by claiming that I "just can't see it".

Gotcha It's not you, it's me.

Originally posted by maarduk
Politely, I think it's important to respect other individuals, no matter how much you disagree with their points of view, and naming them as 'idiots' I find is a shame.

It may be harsh, but I don't think it's shameful. There are plenty of idiots here on ATS, and I have no problems collectively calling them so. The moment I start seeing the same bad logic, the same fallacies, the same appeals to disregard science and evidence, is the moment these people start falling into that "idiot" category. I guarantee you that a substantial amount of what you read in such threads is made up, and I have no respect for that whatsoever.

As it is, obviously there is no public scientific knowledge of telepathy and mental communications with ETs, but sidelining people with 'beliefs' and 'zero evidence' concerning the Extraterrestrial phenomena to be honest misses the 'evidence' that does include ET contact such as Dr Stephen Greer's multiple witness accounts of seeing craft, and actually contacting craft with lasers, lights and electromagnetic devices, which does include meditation, a so called 'zero evidence' appliance.

You're not really trying to use Dr. Greer as an example of credible testimony, are you?

I mean, we are talking about ufos and Ets, we are going to have to find alternate means of verifying 'evidence' and also accounting for proof in alternate fashions. If you wish to place science as your God, nothing will ever be proven, because you are relying on current methodoligies of our time, our current means to provide proof.

See, here is where you start slipping. Why must you find alternate means of verifying evidence when it comes to UFOs and aliens? Why can't we apply traditional scientific methods to them? What is so special about them as a physical phenomena that they are exempt from scientific scrutiny, whereas everything else in the universe is not?

The moment you are appealing to let slide the only methodology we have to objectively define our world is the moment you need to question your own motivations. You are doing nothing here but giving a special pleading for the case of UFOs. Needless to say, this is dangerous in terms of reason.

Finally: The great thing about science is, it doesn't claim to be perfect. It accepts the fact that it can change. The point of science is that it is our best approximation, our best current methodology, of objectively explaining the world around us. Appealing to the fact that it is not perfect is an attempt to disregard it altogether so that we may begin entertaining phenomena along more relaxed lines. Again, you are sacrificing the objective search for truth in doing so.

Unfortunately if we want to continuously rely on our current mainstream science, which by the way is flawed, does make mistakes such as the Condon Report etc, then science will never be able to evaluate certain aspects of reality. This simply does mean 'well you can then say anything is possible' because there are other elements to take into account, other verifying factors.

What do you mean by "mainstream"? Science is science, and while not perfect, it's the best we've got at being objective. Are there things science can't explain? Sure there are. But science is honest...it will attempt to explain them if it can, and if it cannot, it will simply say, "I don't know", not "It's obviously this because it makes sense to me." And no one can really predict what science may be able to prove in the future.

I am skeptical personally, healthy skeptism is a good thing, but I wonder and am wary of individuals who will never accept another possibility than their own because 'science' dictates certain rules, when infact those rules change with time anyway.

Again, this is another appeal to disregard science because it's not perfect. It's the best we've got right now, I promise you. And yes, rules do change, but don't confuse that with failing to approximate those rules along usable and practical lines. For instance, the conception of gravity has gone through several theories, but the principles at play with gravity are accurate enough--even if the theory itself is not true--to predict the movement of everyday objects in such a way as to be considered accurate.

In short, you're appealing to disregard science because science changes, but this is actually quite foolish; we should be heartened to know that science changes, because it demonstrates that science is humble enough to change when breakthroughs are discovered, and that it will adapt to most accurately describe an objective reality to the best of its current abilities. There is no shame in that whatsoever, and it's why it's our best methodology to describe the universe. So appealing to disregard science because after all, "what can it really accurately describe", is nothing more than a special pleading to accommodate those things you know cannot be proven by science right now.

It becomes cynical really, and that is something I think people on ATS should be wary of, skeptism to the point of cynicism is dangerous, close minded and essentially will remain as it is, a minority, for example, the majority of people on this planet think that ufos are real, 80% of the American public for instance think they are real, and also a large percentage think that the US Government is not being truthful about ufos etc.

It can become cynicism, sure. I'm downright cynical about TONS of people here....but you gotta understand, it's not because of what they believe in, it's because they fall into that "idiot" category I mentioned earlier. I happen to believe in aliens definitely, although I'm on the fence regarding human contact/earth visitations. I downright do not believe 98% of the people here claiming to have had such contact, but again, not because of the event being too extraordinary, but because of how they fail to support their stories/explanations (I'm not talking about evidence here), and generally how they conduct themselves.

It's not just the skeptical nature that turns to cynicism, it's the scary numbers of the "idiots". So-called believers actually hurt themselves or their own cause, because they refuse to abide by logic and reason, they want us to disregard science, and then they expect to be taken seriously. I've said this many times here on ATS, and I have yet to find a believer who said, "You know, I understand that. So many ridiculous threads make us look like a bunch of nut jobs." I'm sorry to point it out, but it's the truth.

I feel again, it is a shame to simply label individuals, rather than actually taking in the complexities of ideas and thoughts, and actual evidence which simply does not place everyone under simply three banners.

I appreciate your sentiment here, but unfortunately, that doesn't make the idiots stop being idiots. They may be great people, they may have great ideas, but if they fail basic logic, if their only response is a long list of fallacies, then they're getting tossed into the idiot bin.

reply to post by thrashee


My dear thrashee, I have no reason to justify nor prove anything to you nor to anyone else. The days for your kind are numbered - or perhaps it's just the days that we two disparate kinds will need to interact anymore. Things are changing rapidly. The fact that you can't sense these things speaks volumes. But it's your path. You have free will too. Your choice to exercise it in that fashion is the bed you make for yourself alone.

Once again, there is no point demanding nor even requesting proof in this particular forum, in this particular thread. Your time (and you should have deduced via critical thinking, dear one) is better spent elsewhere.

I will reiterate though that I am not special. Yes, a very, very old soul. Yes, here only for the Ascension and then I'm off to join the Creator's energy afterwhich I will blissfully no longer exist as a soul. But not special. I'm doing the job I was asked to do. We all do whether we "believe" or not. The illusion is just stronger for you because you still have much to learn.

My existence is one of bittersweet paradox. My frustration with you(r kind) is that you can only see the three dimensions. If you could see farther, even just a bit, you would see how your demands are ludicrous. You see it as proof: I see it as an obstacle to knowledge. Paradox. Jump out of those three dimensions briefly and you will get an inkling of what I mean. Are you up to the challenge? Can you, do you meditate?

reply to post by Jeanne2006


Just want you to know I love your accent. Aliens? Maybe. I personally have never had mental aliens.

reply to post by antar


antar, I don't recognize that brand of love that you practice. Exactly what is it? I have yet to see anything resembling love in your posts and yet there you state only Love in your sig and loving as your mood. Could you elucidate?

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
My dear thrashee, I have no reason to justify nor prove anything to you nor to anyone else. The days for your kind are numbered - or perhaps it's just the days that we two disparate kinds will need to interact anymore. Things are changing rapidly. The fact that you can't sense these things speaks volumes. But it's your path. You have free will too. Your choice to exercise it in that fashion is the bed you make for yourself alone.

I know you don't, CosmicEgg, and I'm not really asking you to. You couldn't, and most likely you wouldn't even if you could.

I will reiterate though that I am not special. Yes, a very, very old soul. Yes, here only for the Ascension and then I'm off to join the Creator's energy afterwhich I will blissfully no longer exist as a soul. But not special. I'm doing the job I was asked to do. We all do whether we "believe" or not. The illusion is just stronger for you because you still have much to learn.

Please don't condescend to me, it contradicts the sagacity with which you presumably carry yourself. You have no idea what my cosmological or philosophical views are, but I'm wiling to bet they are far closer to your own than you might think.

My existence is one of bittersweet paradox. My frustration with you(r kind) is that you can only see the three dimensions. If you could see farther, even just a bit, you would see how your demands are ludicrous.

See, again this is condescending, and it contradicts your supposed humility with not being special. You keep saying that, and yet at every turn you point out how you have more abilities than I, or more wisdom, or more "inside" knowledge. Granted, maybe you just do, in which case such claims aren't really boasting but pointing out truth. But I'm sorry, so much of what you say reads like the back of a New Age paperback book. You state these cliches so casually that they literally mean nothing. And perhaps the biggest point: you speak them as though everyone should know they are the truth, without bothering to offer any kind of explanation or even suggesting that these things are what you believe, not know.

Are you up to the challenge? Can you, do you meditate?

I've always been up for the challenge. Though I'm scathing when it comes to being skeptical of so much here, you might well be surprised by my philosophical view; it's hardly narrow minded.

And yes, actually I do meditate.

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
reply to post by antar

 

antar, I don't recognize that brand of love that you practice. Exactly what is it? I have yet to see anything resembling love in your posts and yet there you state only Love in your sig and loving as your mood. Could you elucidate?

first I want to say : good morning ATS because here it is morning

I have read now many postings of you., and i am really intressting in writing with you in mails, if you want

I think that it is not intressting in this thread,if Cosmicegg can see something or not, I think jeanne want to know if someone has seen aliens during a mental journey.

reply to post by thrashee


You may read condescension or whatever emotion you like there. It doesn't exist outside of your own perception (and any other like-minded readers). You choose how you receive information.

Because "I can" and "you can't" doesn't indicate condescension either. It's simply a statement of (changeable, temporary) fact. I can bake like few others. Can you? Does it matter? Not here, it's not at issue. Even if you can't at the moment, if it's important to you to learn and to know, you will do it. Anyone and everyone can do anything and everything given enough time for development. This is a fine example of what I meant by your expressed limited view. You assume much and are closed to further exploration and extrapolation. If you are so open-minded, show it. I'd like some evidence now, please.

If your cosmological and philosophical views are similar to mine, why do you insist upon discounting out of hand things which you have not experienced? Why do you demand this physical evidence? These three measly dimensions are so small and restricted that it's simply an absurd request. Your demands for conformity to these physical laws as known to science are just silly. If only you knew....

Look, this is futile at best. We can agree to disagree but leave off the physical demands. It's very hard to believe that you are broadminded when you ask for such things. As for meditation, might I suggest that you ask to go inward. Your answers are there.

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
This is a fine example of what I meant by your expressed limited view. You assume much and are closed to further exploration and extrapolation. If you are so open-minded, show it. I'd like some evidence now, please.

Again, this is your own assumption. What makes you think I'm not open to further exploration? Is it the fact that I am skeptical when it comes to how easily people make blanket claims of such fantastical things here? Forgive me, but I don't view open mindedness as a blind willingness to believe whatever people say, especially those who say such things as though they are perfectly well known phenomena. Being rational is not a bad thing, and those I trust the most are those who are open minded, relate their experiences, but who are open to interpretation for what those things truly are. For instance, related to the OBE phenomenon, Robert Monroe is by far my favorite author on the subject, because he does not approach his OBEs as some kind of New Age mumbo jumbo, but rather he sought to explore it in a rational manner. He didn't claim to know what was going on for quite some time, and only related his experiences as he viewed them.

If your cosmological and philosophical views are similar to mine, why do you insist upon discounting out of hand things which you have not experienced? Why do you demand this physical evidence? These three measly dimensions are so small and restricted that it's simply an absurd request. Your demands for conformity to these physical laws as known to science are just silly. If only you knew....

I'm discounting them because, quite frankly, you and I both know that your claims are embellished at best. You probably do believe in what you're saying here, but who knows what you've really experienced. Going back to my previous point, if you told me that such and such happened, and your best guess at what it was was an angel, or ghost, or an OBE, I'd have a far easier time believing you. Instead, there is a sheer arrogance involved with proclaiming that they WERE angels, they WERE ghosts, they WERE aliens. There is so much we don't know about our reality that to definitively claim to know so many fantastical things is highly improbable. This type of arrogance is further supported by your repeated hints that you're so much more evolved, that you have an old soul, if only I knew, etc. Furthermore, whenever someone attacks science, which is our best methodology at present to understand the world in which we live, they immediately become suspect. Of course, this only conveniently happens when someone has a claim for which there is no evidence. If your house was burglarized tomorrow, I'm willing to bet that you wouldn't have a problem relying upon the forensics team while they attempted to get fingerprints.

Look, this is futile at best. We can agree to disagree but leave off the physical demands. It's very hard to believe that you are broadminded when you ask for such things. As for meditation, might I suggest that you ask to go inward. Your answers are there.

I wasn't really asking for physical evidence. I believe in OBEs and don't think there is any physical evidence to support it. My point in bringing it up was as a response to the attack on science.

reply to post by vereny


I have sent you my email address in U2U.

reply to post by thrashee


Oh dear. Does this have to be so pedantic? It really is tiresome.

My claims are far from embellished. What possible good would that do? If that were the case, when someone asks for help, I would be unable to give it. That would be a very good example of idiocy - something you're intent on pointing out, let's note. I do not read New Age literature unless I'm looking for explanation of a particular phenomenon which I am experiencing. My search for answers is limited to the questions that result from my explorations, not the other way around. I do have to wonder about your repeated claim that we here who have these experiences are somehow fraudulent. You are perfectly welcome to hold those views but there is no justification for casting those aspersions publicly.

My statements are exactly accurate in light of my continuous experiences with angels, with ghosts, with aliens on those two occasions. I have seen faeries and devis in the forest. I have had one experience with a demon. Contrary to what some may believe, they are actually quite weak. I don't yet understand why they are so feared. I'm sure I will be shown though....

Let me give you something to consider. I studied Medical Laboratory in my youth. That was my world for eight years. I read science news still. I rely on the same observational skills required there as I do now with this realm. My parents and other adult relatives work in computer sciences. When all of this "wacky spiritual stuff" started happening to me several years ago, I had no idea what was going on. I was frankly quite panicked. I thought there was something wrong. But I learned that it was really things finally going right. If others would understand this and allow these experiences to occur in their lives as well, there would be a lot less fear and a lot more of the good things life has to offer. It is not for personal reasons that I defend these experiences against your attacks but for the sake of others who are fearful. There is nothing to fear. You can't get lost when you have an OBE. You won't be hurt when there is a ghost or poltergeist when you approach them with love and compassion. I've never felt threatened by aliens. They are as I am. We just are. The demon...well, I didn't let him hang around long enough to ask what he wanted. I simply smothered him with love and changed his polarity. All things are that simple when approached with love.

If you would like to continue this discussion, could we please do it in U2U? I see no point in continuing it here. It's detracting from the issue at hand. Many thanks in advance.

Your friend is astral visioned and as are we traveling in to the next density we will achieve many abilities o in which your friend displays. Some people have brain waves that operate on another frequency so they are able to look in to other dimensions even look at other edges of planets we can only imagine.

Maybe just a few thoughts in general …

Really open-minded people are rare birds.
Many claim to be open-minded, but it is only a facade and a pretext just to seek new confrontations. Open-mindedness is a term that has become mainstream and still the number of open-minded people has most likely not increased.

If someone is really open-minded then this person must consider all possibilities. To consider all possibilities does not mean to be gullible, but to be open-minded towards all possibilities. It becomes, however, quite quickly an insurmountable obstacle, because true open-mindedness conquers one's own limiting belief systems, fears, and ignorance.

There is definitely one type of people sticking out of the crowd that is called "pathological skeptics". They cannot do anything but be skeptical. The miraculous, parodoxical, and even oxomoronic thing in a certain sense is that these pathological skeptics are the perfect scientific sheeple. They embrace virtually everything what they are told and take voluntarily the position they have been assigned to.

Pathological skeptics have the penchant to attack the people since they cannot attack the data.

All right. That's it so far. I am now having a coffee

Greetings

PS: If anyone needs to be skeptical about this text, then please point out my grammar and spelling mistakes.

[edit on 11-2-2009 by TheWriter]

Originally posted by TheWriter
Pathological skeptics have the penchant to attack the people since they cannot attack the data.

That's because there's never any data to attack

It becomes, however, quite quickly an insurmountable obstactle, because true open-mindedness conquers one's own limiting belief systems, fears, and ignorance.

What does this even mean? What's the insurmountable obstacle here in being open-minded?

As I said before, the open-minded card gets played far too often when confronting skeptics. This is most often used when a claim is presented that has no "data" associated with it, or, forgetting evidence, when the claimant casually states fantastical things as fact without bothering to expound on how or why these things are true.

Imagine talking with a coworker around the water cooler one day, and they tell you, "So last night I was communing with the fairies, and they told me to keep an eye open for the purple three-headed unicorn. So those are my plans for this evening."

If you challenge your coworker at all, they shake their head at you sadly and say, "You're not in the know? It's a shame your perceptions are so limited. Besides, you're being so close minded. If you were truly open minded, you'd see beyond your ignorance and fear."

These are pathological responses to skeptics in these types of threads: they're minions of Big Bad Science, they're close minded, nothing is ever good enough for them, they somehow haven't ascended to a higher level. The sad, but consistent, thing between both the claims and the responses is bad logic and reason.

Oh, you misspelled "obstacle"

[edit on 11-2-2009 by thrashee]

[edit on 11-2-2009 by thrashee]