What is with all the "Christianity-Debunking" attempt threads?

reply to post by Thistled


Keep mocking, see where it gets you. I am very much alive, thanks. The very Spirit of God resides within me.

Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by VelmaLu
It's not appropriate in the workplace, in social settings or when discussing political matters. It's really not an appropriate topic with non-believers unless they bring it up to you. Yet, this little nugget seems to escape so many Christians. Many Christians will continue on with their behavior even when they have knowledge that their behavior is offensive to others.

Well, I'm not someone who goes around and talks about this stuff in the office or anything like that. But as far as you or anyone else being offended by my beliefs, I do not care if my opinion offends you.

Do you know the difference between opinion and behavior? Your response is exactly the attitude which is so wrong. You don't care if people don't want to have your religion shoved in their face, you're going to do it anyway.

So do us all a favor, do the planet a favor and reel in your belief system before we're out of all our resources. While YOU may believe that God will zap more oil into the ground, the rest of us do not. While YOU may believe that we should continue to go forth and multiply, some of us do not want to see millions of people suffer and die. While YOU look forward to the end of the world, some us to not see it as a rapture.

And now you are going to blame a religion for using up all the resources? That is just a silly and baseless claim. And I'm pretty sure the entire "fossil fuel" idea has been debunked with recent discoveries.

No, I'm going to blame religion on fostering this idea that birth control is bad, that abortion is a sin, that every sexual act should end up in another human being.

You might be "pretty sure", but you're wrong. You have no idea about the concept of peak oil as so aptly demonstrated by your comments. Sort of like your opinions on overpopulation.

Instead of just believing something, and then vigorously defending it, why don't you actually research it (through unbiased sources, not some religious based website) and then develop an informed opinion?

You see, that's where it gets dangerous, when you start believing your opinions are just as valid as someone else's information which is based on FACT. It's not. Your opinion that we have enough oil is dangerous. Your attempt to influence others as to the validity of your opinion is equally dangerous.

You're statement isn't fact either. It's an opinion. You blame people for stating their opinions as fact, but then also state your opinion as fact. And in a way no different than the people you point fingers at, proceed to call everyone else the problem.

It is a fact that Christians many times speak out inappropriately about their religion. Please show me where I have made a statement of fact which was incorrect.

What if you were a Christian, and someone came along making arguments like these to say your beliefs were wrong. How would you like it? Wouldn't it be exactly like someone coming along today and saying your beliefs are wrong and that you are a drain on the world? So maybe it's best if you just allow people to keep their beliefs, live and let live and when that boundary is crossed by someone, regardless of beliefs, then point those actions out rather than using the actions of a few to disparage millions of people.

Let's go over this again.

You seem to think that empirical evidence is the same thing as opinion. It's not. You treat your feelings and beliefs as if they are as valid as scientific research. When I drop a rock and it falls to the earth because of gravity, that is a fact. It has been proven, it is repeatable. I can demonstrate it for you. A magical sky friend who needs our prayers and petitions is a belief. You cannot prove to me that this being exists, that this being needs our prayers, and that this being really gives a damn about us.

Fact and belief are not the same.

Your beliefs are not wrong, your opinions are not wrong, but your behavior is wrong. It is wrong to expect others to accept your beliefs as fact. It is wrong to attempt to force others to live in a world which reflects your unfounded beliefs.

When your beliefs lead you to action and those actions are often offensive, intrusive or downright dangerous, others have every right to object. Allowing someone to continue in their delusion is fine, but when those delusions infringe on others, when they attempt to shape the world to match their deluded thinking, that causes problems.

Do you understand now? No one is saying you can't have your imaginary friend, it's when you expect us to accommodate this belief where it gets to be a problem.

Originally posted by undo

i personally don't believe the US or the western world is christian. i believe it's pagan and has been for a very long time.

It is only pagan in the sense that everyone has their own ideas as to the nature of God, which cannot be known. The mind of God is unknowable.

Honestly, while religion has caused much hardship, I think one would be hard pressed to find anything that has done more damage than the Cartesian-Newtonian mindset, which by the way, atheism evolved from.

[edit on 8-2-2009 by SpeakerofTruth]

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


something like that. it's a melting pot. the masons believe in the divine council (well the ones who wrote the laws originally, did. not so sure about these days), so that fits the concept of many gods, which is a blueprint of sorts for democracy. depending on which god you believe in, your title will change from christian or jew or muslim or buddhist to pagans of various types. some christians, jews and muslims view the entire idea of a divine council as paganistic. i think that needs to be more clearly understood so as not to confuse the worship of many gods, with the belief that these many gods exist. there's a difference. anyway, in its current understanding, it is paganistic. not that i completely agree with the interpretation.

reply to post by infolurker


Whilst plenty of people have died as a result of both religion and atheism, I don't think it's fair to tar followers of either doctrine with the same brush. I don't believe the Christian posters on this board are responsible for the crusades, nor do I believe the atheists here are responsible for the actions of Hitler or Stalin. In both sides of that argument those in power have corrupted doctrines to serve their own twisted needs. Of course that is wrong, but it has nothing to do with the average ATS poster.

reply to post by infolurker

Actually not quite true.. Atheism's Body Count - Ideology and Human Suffering Atheism's Murder Rate: More than 250 Million Dead in the Past Century

now how about the other end of that spectrum.. how about the death toll from religious groups..??

reply to post by infolurker


ahh thats a new one for me.. i'll check them out
thx for the links

reply to post by daersoulkeeper


christianity: convert without force, free will, show each other love, turn the other cheek, love your neighbor as yourself.
too bad thats not the case.. there is a lot of blood on christianities hands

Originally posted by scorand

christianity: convert without force, free will, show each other love, turn the other cheek, love your neighbor as yourself.
too bad thats not the case.. there is a lot of blood on christianities hands

Well, unfortunately, Christianity has been taken ovr by some pretty malevolent forces. It has been highly politicised as is generally the religion of the ruling elite.

If we look at Christianity from its inception we need to ask the following questions:

Why has it NEVER gone smoothly?

Would God or Jesus ever be associated with something that has had such a bad history?

Has it EVER had Gods blessing?


As a spiritual person, I have learned that it is crucial to: Read the Mail!!

Gods will is smooth (even if at times unpleasant). If we hit a brick wall....its not his will! Yet Christianity has hit numerous brick walls with countless negative results.

By the evidence shown throughout history and today, it begs the question:

Has Gods spirit EVER been on Christianity? Where's the proof?

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


because they see the truth of zealotry, hypocracy, and blind faith.. and how it can be used for their bennefit.. too bad more people dont see this..
they are too busy fighting to push the current idea of christianity, and following their church leaders as if the leaders are a direct line to god.. and not a place of worship that its supposed to be

Obviously purposefully goading and flamebaiting people about their beleifs is wrong but whats so bad about objective free enquiry-especialy in regard to organised religion?

After all abrahamic lore makes some quite fantastical claims,should we just mindlessly accept them as unconditionaly true or have the intellectual honesty to impartialy examine them?

Why should one group of people's opinions be exempt from healthy scepticism and dispassionate analysis?

I'm not accusing anyone of courting victimhood here but it will be a very sad day when openly questioning the stories,opinions and doctrine of organised religion is somehow viewed as hate speech.

reply to post by karl 12


If i were to tell you that if you dont accept jesus into your heart and go to church you would burn in hell. You will burn in hell because you are a fool and a sinner just liek the rest that go there. That you dont deserve happiness or life and that you will suffer for eternity for your ignorance.

Is that the truth or hate speech? depends what side your on..... but religion is based upon not seeing the "other" side, because you forfit your soul.

This is the consquence.

reply to post by scorand

because they see the truth of zealotry, hypocracy, and blind faith.. and how it can be used for their bennefit.. too bad more people dont see this..
they are too busy fighting to push the current idea of christianity, and following their church leaders as if the leaders are a direct line to god.. and not a place of worship that its supposed to be

And why would we expect anything else? As long as it SEEMS to work for them, they will follow like sheep.

As soon as it shows that it no longer works (and that is happening now), they will more and more jump ship. Especially if their Biblical interpretations don't happen as they expect!

As times gets harder, the "fluff and fold" aspects of religion (all) will fail. A divine connection may be the one thing that holds a person and family together.

OP I agree with you and I've said it before. Why do I always come to this site and see something like "10 reasons why Jesus isn't real" and I never see "10 reasons why Allah isn't real?" It's almost ridiculous but I think it does boil down to sin and every single persons struggle with accepting it and/or talking about it as well as the fact that almost everyone has heard the word of Christ. I'm pretty sure that almost everyone in America has heard, read, or went to church.. but not everyone has a copy of the Koran in their living room. It's actually pretty sad, watching prophecies come true like this. But Christians had to know this was coming.. we were told remember? The only thing we can do to combat these radicals is to stick to our faith and try to inform others. It is my personal belief that it directly relates to the end times. Cashless society.. one world govt.. and the growing hate for Christianity.. it was all told to us. So, let them make those hate threads, just ignore them or join in if you can stand to sit and make the same point 50 different times.

Checking out some of the earlier replies : Let me say this, the people that are in power now, I do not in any way what so ever believe they are Christian. Christians wouldn't do what they do at Bohemian Grove. Religion has been used, especially Christianity. It's was used to justify crusades etc and I never, EVER, thought that was right. I don't think a real Christian would. God gave us very clear rules, "Thou shalt not kill" was not a polite suggestion and I think the people who blasphemed Gods name in those times and in our time will get theirs in the end. I guess it's just a matter of time now..

[edit on 8-2-2009 by Boogley]

reply to post by MatrixProphet


And why would we expect anything else? As long as it SEEMS to work for them, they will follow like sheep.

As soon as it shows that it no longer works (and that is happening now), they will more and more jump ship. Especially if their Biblical interpretations don't happen as they expect!

As times gets harder, the "fluff and fold" aspects of religion (all) will fail. A divine connection may be the one thing that holds a person and family together.



i agree as times get harder a divine connection may very well be the one thing to hold a person and familly together. how ever many need to realise that the church isnt divinity

Originally posted by Wertdagf
If i were to tell you that if you dont accept jesus into your heart and go to church you would burn in hell.
You will burn in hell because you are a fool and a sinner just like the rest that go there.
That you dont deserve happiness or life and that you will suffer for eternity for your ignorance.

Is that the truth or hate speech? depends what side your on.....

Very good point
One could almost be forgiven for thinking there may well be some kind of abrahamic conspiracy against inferior non beleivers:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by scorand

i agree as times get harder a divine connection may very well be the one thing to hold a person and familly together. how ever many need to realise that the church isnt divinity

Right. Although how often is Church made into a God? Whereas, the "real deal" has nothing to do with it, as my points earlier addressed.

reply to post by karl 12


Everyone is already forgivin. You must only understand why.
All is full of love. Everything that you see and know... remember and think... is full of love.

Even those people that kill.... they do it for the love of a world that they hope to create.

Ignorance is the root of all suffering.