Caucaseans in the Americas before Native Americans

\But wait.....where did they get the "white" DNA. While they were in Siberia? I'm very confused, or were their whites also living in Asia? \

why confused? check the region, look at the map, study the peoples that live there and the answer is clear as a day...of course caucasians live in eurasia which is part of siberia...
the unique dna chain inherent to the native americans and present in the two peoples of siberia means you belong to the same progentress and came from that place. they mixed with the peoples around acquiring new dnas, at some point one part of the tribe moved following the divergent glaciers, this travel took hundreds of years to accomplish, on the way new dnas acquired - the age of dna adds and mutations are calculated and the scientists get the answer of the roots, places, routes etc.,. the same with those who stayed and settled around the territory.

if you check kirgiz who are dark and have asian features you will see they have more m17 dna than the russians... the russians are blond and have caucasian features...

here is Sergey Shoigu, a Tuva one, - Minister of the Russian Federation on affairs of Civil Defence, Emergencies and Elimination of Consequences of Natural Disasters
Link

tuva map
as you look at the map you see also there is china closeby, the answer to the caucasian mummies they found there... if tey check dna they will get to the same region as the tuva people are from, possibly the Uygur peoples who are in the same nei-group as tatars and kalapalks. and tatars are also red haired and have mostly caucasian features, like some of uygurs...

Map. Geographic distribution of Y-chromosome haplotypes in selected Eurasian populations. Evolutionarily related haplotypes were combined to clarify their display.



[edit on 10-2-2009 by Russi]

Caucasoids. They did not predate Native Americans. They WERE Native Americans. Their genetics were probably incorporated overtime, or wiped out by competing tribes.

Originally posted by monkcaw
I remember hearing of this a few years ago. A race of people predating native americans. If I recall they were called "INU" or something like that. I can't seem to find anything about it online though.

The Innu. They live in Canada. They do seem to be a part of one of the original grouping that came across, and have a unique culture and language set. They are different people than the Inuit, and live to the east of that range.

Originally posted by NativeAmerican
reply to post by Russi

 

I'm admittedly confused. Are you saying that it was 2 different ethnicities that came to the America's or that they were mixed by the time they had arrived?

Ethnicity wasn't ethnicity. It was tribal. Some tribes were more Indo-European looking. The C mtDNA group is all over asia, and constitutes 20% (?) of Asian population. However, I am a C and I am quite assuredly of European descent. C is one of the founding groups of the Americas.

What this shows you is not ethnicity as we understand it. It shows you that women were freely moving (or traded) between groups.

Originally posted by The Soothsayer
In doing research on the Rock Lake Pyramids (Wisconsin), there are a few legends abound which tell of people "with hair of fire" "eyes like ice" and pale skin. These were the ones responsible for building the structures in question, as well as constructing and working the copper minds in the Lake Superior area.

Celts?

Seems to me that the physical descriptions match with the first settlers on China.

Celts, vikings. When Colombus came to the East Coast, there were reports of blue-eyed Indians.

There are sites being dug up on the east coast of Canada that are Viking sites. The men would have taken local wives.

The Celts have legends about people who went across the sea to the West.

That being said. In tribal cultures, a group with predominantly recessive triaits (blue eyes, blond hair, or even more recessive red hair) if they were taken over the men, boys, old women and young children would be killed and the women taken as slaves. If the tribe taking them as slaves was a darker tribe, their children would in generally be darker skinned and eyes and hair. Their children mixing back into the same group would again be having children who are darker skinned and have darker hair.

The recessive trait would mostly disappear inoto the sea of dominant traits, to only pop up now and then when two descendants with the recessive traiits had a child that happen to get the trait from both parents.

The Australian Aboriginals oral history specifically says that there was a lighter skinned people there when they came to the continent.

Of course, their idea of lighter skinned might not be like a European light skin. Lighter than an Australian Aboriginie (without any european ancestors) is not too hard to achieve. Asians, Indo-Subcontinent, Arabs, would all be considered "white" compared to them.

Originally posted by prevenge
ther ewas also a skull found with genes of a "green eyed - red haired" caucasian found on the west coast of the south island of New Zealand not too long ago.

ancient history is all but demolished..

there were cycle upon cycle of the rise and fall of civilizations as advanced as our own..

at least 5 in the past 500,000 yrs.


each time destroying itself BUT. .with an elite escaping the destruction and evolving further to "guide" the next round of "leftovers"...

all for the sole purpose of maintainign physical bodies in existence for souls to constantly reincarnate into and experience karma.. and eventually grow and elevate..

-

[edit on 2009/2/10 by Aeons]

The mention of Innu people is relevant here.
They were associated with the Atikamek Indians, were their allies in fights with the Eskimo/ they still live in Quebec...
the Inuit are the Eskimo... they call themselves Inuit... that is kinda enemy to the atikamek...
And it seems the Inuit are of mongoloid type, M130 which doesnt place them in nei-group with the native americans






[edit on 10-2-2009 by Russi]

reply to post by Russi


Ah, I gotcha now! Thanks!

reply to post by NativeAmerican


But people can have definitions of blonde. Doesn't mean they are white. Someone who is just paler in comparison can be considered "white"

Also, in the instance of the Navajo, they only emigrated here from Canada 500 years ago. So they barely got here before chris did.

That being said, Indians were well established by the time europeans came on the boat, it still doesn't negate the atrocities that europeans committed.

I recall seeing a documentary a few years back about an ancient caucasian skeleton found on the banks of the Colombus River in Washington State. Police first considered it was a homicide until a forensic scientist established the age of the skeleton.

Local American Indians heard of claims that the skeleton was European in origin. The tribe in that area claimed possession of the body back from the Police and declared it the skeleton of an ancestor. Those indians forbade any further scientific study of the skeleton.

I dispute that Caucasians in North America are ethnic ancestors of the American ancestors.

Vikings living in Greenland did not mix with local Inuit. More likely it is an indication that one could navigate ice free around the north of Canada in prehistoric times. That puts the cat amongst the pigeons for those who believe passionately that global warming.

I also reject that this has anything to do with white supremacists. Possibly white supremacists are trying to buy into the debate, but that does not make it anymore a race issue than does the fact some Indian tribes have attempted to suppress and prevent scientific investigation.

Your grasp of human nature is astounding.

Men, away from women for years at a time do not fraternize with local women. Certainly a group known for raping and pillaging would NEVER do that.

Yep. That would happen.

(oh, and as to inevitable racism commmentary to happen here.....I'll point out that there are men who will put their penises in tree knots, tail pipes, vacuums, chickens, dogs........)

Originally posted by sy.gunson
I recall seeing a documentary a few years back about an ancient caucasian skeleton found on the banks of the Colombus River in Washington State. Police first considered it was a homicide until a forensic scientist established the age of the skeleton.

Local American Indians heard of claims that the skeleton was European in origin. The tribe in that area claimed possession of the body back from the Police and declared it the skeleton of an ancestor. Those indians forbade any further scientific study of the skeleton.

I dispute that Caucasians in North America are ethnic ancestors of the American ancestors.

Vikings living in Greenland did not mix with local Inuit. More likely it is an indication that one could navigate ice free around the north of Canada in prehistoric times. That puts the cat amongst the pigeons for those who believe passionately that global warming.

I also reject that this has anything to do with white supremacists. Possibly white supremacists are trying to buy into the debate, but that does not make it anymore a race issue than does the fact some Indian tribes have attempted to suppress and prevent scientific investigation.

Men, away from women for years at a time do not fraternize with local women. Certainly a group known for raping and pillaging would NEVER do that.

Yep. That would happen.

But it didn't happen in Greenland so maybe your grasp of history is lacking ?

reply to post by sy.gunson


I'm not disagreeing with you, but how do you know that?

Also if anyone knows the actual name of the documentary that was shown on discovery about this it would be very helpful. If I get the name I can find a way to get it and watch it.

Sure. All the vikings that went to Greenland were gay or prefered polar bears.

mtDNA only tracks WOMEN.

Originally posted by sy.gunson

Men, away from women for years at a time do not fraternize with local women. Certainly a group known for raping and pillaging would NEVER do that.

Yep. That would happen.

But it didn't happen in Greenland so maybe your grasp of history is lacking ?

Culturally, the viking cultures managed to maintain a cultural presence that continued.

To extend that to a GENETIC is illogical.

I suggest that you look into the y-haplogroup divergence of the local Greenland Inuit tribes, such as the Thule.

Women were taken in, the cultural preserved and the succeeding generations identified themselves as Vikings.

There would be no european mtDNA groups, because the vikings generally didn't take women with them. Therefore all the mtDNA would be for the local women.

I'd really like to understand how it is that someone can think that a continuos viking presence and settlement occured when only men came? Did you think that they continued their presence through mitosis?


[edit on 2009/2/11 by Aeons]

Love it. Really. The racial bias of people is great.

These viking mummies they have X mtDNA which isn't found in Europe or Scandanivians in any significant quantity but is a well known founding Inuit/Americas haplogroup. But they have R1B Y haplogroup, showing European.

Its a MYSTERY.

www.users.on.net...

Originally posted by Russi
The mention of Innu people is relevant here.
They were associated with the Atikamek Indians, were their allies in fights with the Eskimo/ they still live in Quebec...
the Inuit are the Eskimo... they call themselves Inuit... that is kinda enemy to the atikamek...
And it seems the Inuit are of mongoloid type, M130 which doesnt place them in nei-group with the native americans



[edit on 10-2-2009 by Russi]

Kumuk of Inuit
Kumuk of Caucasus
Kumuk of Egypt
Kumuk of East Turkestan
Kumuk of Africa
Kumuk of Inca

Etymologically , it is no brainer , really .

Err..... I am a bit hesitant to bring religion into the discussion, but don't the Mormons have Whites living in the America during the time of Jesus? They tell of Jesus coming to North America and discovering a group of whites living in sin. Jesus teaches them how to live right and thus Mormonism was born. (The Later Day Saints)

Not saying I believe it, but it does add an interesting twist.