'There definitely is a God': Christians hit back at atheist buses with own adverts

Originally posted by weedwhacker
I think the entire 'campaign' verged on the silly, almost a 'tit-for-tat'.

In all fairness, all ATS threads are 'tit-for-tat'. One person makes a claim, another person makes a counter-claim and of they go for pages and pages citing references while contributors either support or oppose their position. I guess you could say ATS is silly or pointless, but I've learned quite a bit from these discussions. Wear your cross or wear your inverted pentagram, let's brew some tea and talk about it.


[edit on 13-2-2009 by saint4God]

Originally posted by converge
You're a believer in any religion? That must keep you up at night, since there are so many religions that contradict each other and/or claim to be the 'real' one...

reply to post by ravenshadow13


Don't you love the little "Jesus Fishes" with the feet on them....? And 'Darwin' in the middle?

Everyone must love the amphibians....!

reply to post by karl 12


karl....thanks for fiinding that!!!

You made me laugh......rare thing, nowadays.

So I was on here earlier, about half way through this thread ....(you know the Christian Mystic claiming to know 100% for sure that God is real)

I also bet my life, wife, bank account, and all other material possessions on the "fact" that God is real, or in your own worlds ....on the odds that God is real.

How can you possibly stake so much on something you cannot prove? Can you also "walk the walk"? I doubt it. Your god is not something of this tangible, solid world and could only be proven in spirit and belief of an individual. Prove it to me.....

I stake so much on God, because I looked and search and found God ...beyond belief and beyond faith. Growing into mature levels of the Spiritual life, you come to a place where you know God and know that he's real. His presence becomes tangible to you ...more tangible than this materialistic temporary reality and planet we live on.

Prove it to you? Ok, sit down with me for a year or so once a week with an open mind and heart, and you too shall see. It takes time to penetrate beyond logic and reason to ride the waves of transcendence.

It's very simple. A radio station has various frequencies/stations. Everyone on this planet is tuned in to 104.3 fm ....but are not tuning into the fact that the radio exists in the first place.

Yes, I'm sure that's something to be really proud of - betting the lives of your family that your God is real. Thank you for reminding us just how dangerous religion can be.

Take me out of context all you want. It wasn't said in some extremist religious context of murdering my wife for the sake of God ...as I'm sure you would like to construct it to be. Let's just keep it basic ....I'd bet my own existence on the reality and existence of God as a wager. Whereas most atheists/agnostics aren't willing to wager theirs for the non-existence of God. If I was Bill Gates I'd put my Billions on it. I sought and I found again beyond childish belief and faith.

If I said I would sacrifice my eternal life in heaven and choose hell instead to prove to you my extreme faith that your God is imaginary then so be it. I will willingly accept the consequences of my actions, that's more than I can say for most religious people. I am risking an eternity in hell for the truth.

1st off, being a Christian Mystic..... I separate religion and it's obnoxious ways, from the reality of God's awesome existence and transcendence. I'm behind you as far as religion itself being crap. But to see past the "religious part" of it and dig out the nuggets of "truth" is what its all about

In order for me to take seriously whether what you say is so called "truth" I would have to ask you if you have gone through ego death, tasted transcendence beyond logic and reason, gone through illumination, self realized your soul within the physical shell, and experienced transcendent Love for all people including strangers.. Without these things....your using logic and reason to come to a conclusion about a topic which is way beyond these faculties. Therefor, I wouldn't be able to take what you say as "truth" until you can clearly represent to me that you have tasted faculties that come from enlightenment.

You do not know God is real. You can not prove it. You merely have had experiences in which you BELIEVE point to the existence of God.

Spare me my brother...... I know God is real, looked and found. I do not have to prove it, since I know God shall prove himself eventually beyond a doubt. It's what atheists/agnostics find out when they physically die.... my proverbial last laugh ...even though it's ironic. Physical death is sad ...but when you know without a doubt they continue on..... it's relative.

To prove it(for myself) ...I look around and see all those that genuinely looked, have found God. Those that haven't, who knows perhaps were one day away from finding and then gave up, perhaps 10 years from finding.

It's great that you were able to change your personality through a belief in God. It's nice you found an excuse to change for the better..

I didn't change my personality, God did. It wasn't an excuse. I approached my search for God as a Spiritual Scientist. Example: Monks say, if you follow Jesus' path, in the beginning you undergo "A" and "B" in the middle of your path, "C" and "D" with all types of wonderful sign posts along the way, etc.

Ok, so scientifically speaking I underwent the path and had "A" then "B" and started noticing the sign posts and then BOOM face to face with God in all things and all things in God.

I do have a problem when people say they KNOW the answer. It is a cop out when you say "it defies logic and reason."

Are you serious?? You know you exist, and I don't have a problem with you saying that you "KNOW" that you exist. All relative my friend.

A cop out??? Come on buddy!!!!!!! You can use LOGIC and REASON to realize just how limited LOGIC and REASON really are. The smartest people in the world will and have agreed with that fact. And since they are limited, there exists worlds of functioning beyond them.

For example take infinite math. Your dealing with concepts beyond logic and reason. Every mathematician knows this as fact and deals with it. Yet somebody had to first come up with infinite math, proving that perhaps at that point there was a glimpse into the beyond.

All things we KNOW can be defined by logic, reason, and science.

I disagree again because logic, reason, and science are limited. There are people who know and experience things beyond these 3 you mention. Science just hasn't caught up to God, yet! Plus trying to describe something from transcendence(beyond words) to someone using logic and reason, is like ......there's no comparison for it. We see this allot in art, transcendence beyond words, beyond logic+reason+science and yet all(most) can appreciate.

In a way arguing there is no God is like arguing that there is no Art. You have to experience art and God both to appreciate and to know that they are both real. Discussing them both using (science, logic, reason) is null and void w/o the direct experience.

It isn't that people haven't "looked" in the right place, it's that they have and there was nothing there.

That's the point though ........in a sense one of the characteristics of God is nothingness. The Mystics call it the nothing that is something. Again a reality to be grasped beyond logic and reason. Anything you or I say God is, limits God to that individual concept of that particular word/description. God is pure unadulterated and infinite Love and that's the best way to approach God is to get to know him and Love him. Like attracts like. So if you see nothing there ...that nothing is still something but since your happy to leave it as nothingness + free will to do so = that's the result you live with.

Jesus used Love to circumvent logic and reason to help people finally experience God (something that Logic, reason, and ego blocks us from knowing) yet after wards we use logic and reason and say, "WHoa, I just experienced God" It's a knowing, 100% beyond a doubt, more real than this petty glimpse of an eye, physical existence. The truth is there is no such thing as time (illusory) and there is a whole Spiritual world all around us and inside of us, its a matter of seeing the radio and all it's stations instead of just being tuned in to 1 station.

All so simple and brilliant yet the ego fights it. Oh well. I have peace, Love, happiness, Enlightenment, and God in my life. I wish the world and everyone in it had this. It makes mere logic+reason look like kindergartners. It would be utopia, and one day we'll get there, but until then............

I LOVE those Jesus Darwin fish.
Haha, wow. I didn't know the part about the original Christian bus saying that "all non-Christians" would "burn in hell" but I'm not super surprised. I kind of think that that statement is more offending than this Darwin thing which doesn't say "All Christians are stupid idiots or will be eaten by super evolved animals."

I love that... Christ's love will make everything better. You guys have to promise that in 50 years if I am somehow Christian to just put me out of my misery. Tie me up and make me watch evolution videos until I snap out of it, okay?

Let's all hop on the atheist bus!

If this bus is an atheist, I wonder if it gets talked down to by the Christian bus. That happens to me all the time.

Oh, right, and IMO religion is a cop out for not facing scary things like death, the fact that we exist to basically breed and die and be eaten by other animals, and that there isn't some magic superman out there in space that we can't see... Plus, if you don't believe in religion at all, then you're living your life for yourself and not some God or Christ entity, so that when you die if there is nothing else (no heaven, whatever) you won't be totally bummed. But you probably won't know, because IMO we just turn to dirt and stop having a consciousness when we die. Worst case scenario, right? I always expect the worst, so if I am wrong I am pleasantly surprised. Or I'll go to Hell. But then all you other atheists and myself can have a scene down there. I'll buy drinks.

[edit on 2/13/2009 by ravenshadow13]

reply to post by ravenshadow13


ravenshadow.....that is probably the funniest thing I've read in a long time.

Thanks for brightening my day....I think I'll use some of your choice quotes.....

To all those who believe that the "Advert" was breaking ASA rules by not providing proof, this is the reply I received from the Advertising Standards Authority on this query.

"It turns out that the Christian Party is a Political Party so I'm sorry to tell you that we're unable to deal with the specific issues you raise: we're unable to investigate complaints about advertising which aims to influence voters in elections or referendums. To do so would be to interfere with the democratic process. (The relevant clauses in our Code are 12.1 and 12.2 and can find the code at www.cap.org.uk)
The ASA Council has seen the ad and confirmed that because its primary purpose is to promote The Christian party, it is electioneering material and therefore exempt from our Code."

It goes on to mention the Trinitarian Bible society and the Russian Orthodox and assessed that they were both likely to be seen as simply reflecting the opinions of the advertisers and were unlikely to mislead readers.

It seems simple then, as long as you are a Political Party you can say whatever you like without having to worry about the burden of proving anything.

reply to post by karl 12


OK cool so those buses are full of good hearted kind souls that will all live through every journey and live long full lives until heaven or are these just more useless stupid f&*^$ng words?!

....or does this mean everyone on the other buses is damned?????????


Look, is it possible, and i am just asking, but could we possible keep our personal belief system to ourselves?

Lol dumb atheists, but yea for Real there IS DEFINITELY a God.

Ur choice to believe or not, and stop saying its false advertising, i mean # are they using this to prop up Jesus doll sales, yup this is also definitely a conspiracy!

reply to post by saint4God

Certainly it is, I've verified it. If someone else hasn't verified it then it does not make it unverifiable.

But if your proofs are such as cannot be verified by anyone else, what good are they?

Why bother even to tell us about it? What can you hope to achieve?

'There definitely is a God, because I say so.'

Most people realize the futility of that line of talk in kindergarten.

Originally posted by Astyanax
But if your proofs are such as cannot be verified by anyone else, what good are they?

It's certainly good to me as well as other who seek out/who have sought out the same.

Originally posted by Astyanax
Why bother even to tell us about it?

To let people know that it's there. It's hard to find things that we don't know are present. I can also tell you all about England first hand, but I cannot prove any of it. I'm not a pilot, I cannot fly you there, I can't even pay for your ticket...but it's there and has some wonderful places to visit and had some great experiences that one simply must experience for oneself.

Originally posted by Astyanax
What can you hope to achieve?

There's nothing for me to achieve by saying this.

Originally posted by Astyanax
'There definitely is a God, because I say so.'

I never asked anyone to take my word on it. Factually looking back retrospectively on the thread perhaps you can see where I have encouraged others to find out for oneself.

Originally posted by Astyanax
Most people realize the futility of that line of talk in kindergarten.

As I've said many, many times before, there's no need to merely trust what I say (although this testimony is right and true). As many have said on ATS, "The truth stands upon its own merits" towards testing and evaluation. Additonally, one cannot deny me of what happened. I was there. I am here. Unless of course you'd like to prove that I died in 1989. That'd be an interesting argument.

[edit on 3-3-2009 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
It's hard to find things that we don't know are present.

It's even harder to see things that aren't there at all, but that doesn't stop some people to 'see' them anyway.

I can also tell you all about England first hand, but I cannot prove any of it. I'm not a pilot, I cannot fly you there, I can't even pay for your ticket...but it's there and has some wonderful places to visit and had some great experiences that one simply must experience for oneself.

That comparison doesn't make sense, because regardless of the theoretical difficulties a person might have into 'confirming' England's existence, it's ultimately possible to do so.

When someone says "I believe England is on the other side of this Ocean", even if a person has never seen it, they can actually go there and confirm if it's there or not.

On the other hand, there is simply no empirically possible way to confirm God's existence.

I never asked anyone to take my word for in.

Well, if you admit there's no evidence you can point to any third party regarding God's existence, then when you are saying that God exists and you know it, you're implicitly asking people to take your word for it.

Originally posted by converge
When someone says "I believe England is on the other side of this Ocean", even if a person has never seen it, they can actually go there and confirm if it's there or not.

In the same way one can go to God and confirm that He is there. It has been done repeatedly long before I lived, occurs while I live and will continue to happen many times after I die without any intervention from me.

Originally posted by converge
Well, if you admit there's no evidence you can point to any third party regarding God's existence,

If by 'point to' you mean help someone else find, then I'm glad to do so to those who are sincerely interested in finding. Being that this is off-topic however, we can go through details via U2U.

Originally posted by converge
then when you are saying that God exists and you know it, you're implicitly asking people to take your word for it.

At the risk of sounding redundant, I'm not asking people to take my word for it. I'm letting people know. A newspaper tells you things, it does not 'ask you to trust it'. It provides the information and it is up to you to validate it. Unlike a newspaper however, I will try my best to help those who seek validation find it.

[edit on 3-3-2009 by saint4God]

Originally posted by Astyanax
But if your proofs are such as cannot be verified by anyone else, what good are they?

They are not.

HERE are hundreds "proofs" that God exists.

Originally posted by Astyanax
Why bother even to tell us about it? What can you hope to achieve?

Simple. God NEEDS money. It is a business model. Out of 100 people you tell, 10 will start believing it and hopefully ONE will go to church and donate...

Biggest sales pitch of the last 8000 years: You'll get Eternal life for free if you believe, what do ya got to loose (just call the 1-800 number on the bottom of this screen, lol).

Originally posted by saint4God
In the same way one can go to God and confirm that He is there.

Please share with us how that confirmation can be done. You do realize you need evidence to confirm something?

No matter how much you, or other people, personally believe God exists, there is no evidence whatsoever that he/she/it does, otherwise this debate had long gone been over.

What we see in fact, on the other hand, is that people less and less believe in a sort of God portrayed in the Bible, or the Bible itself as the word of God.

Of course some (fanatics) will probably argue that this is due to the Devil or some other nonsensical 'explanation', which obviously means absolutely nothing because it lacks the same sort of evidence or confirmation as God's own existence.

At the risk of sounding redundant

Don't worry about it, some of us are used to hearing religious logical fallacies.

A newspaper tells you things, it does not 'ask you to trust it'.

Actually it kind of does. That's why all news sources claim or try to appear credible, because it's understood that news reporting should be accurate, and objective; and people wouldn't read/listen/see it if they claimed otherwise.

It provides the information and it is up to you to validate it.

The difference is that when a newspaper (or any other news media/outlet) tells you something, ultimately, you can verify the veracity of that claim.

You read in the paper that there is an invasion in some African country. Can you, from your living room, confirm this? I guess it depends on what you consider a credible source for validation.

Let's suppose you don't consider any source credible, except your own eyes. Despite this African country being thousands of miles away, numerous timezones apart, ultimately you could go there and see for yourself.

Would it cost you money, effort, time? Would it probably be an unsafe task? Definitely. But it could be done, nonetheless. And that's the difference between something you read in the paper, and someone's word that God exists.

Unlike a newspaper however, I will try my best to help those who seek validation find it.

I've been asking for validation. I'm glad that you are willing to help those who seek [it].

Now, how can you help me get validation of God's existence? What tools do I have to get? What places do I have to travel to? What evidence should I look at?

Originally posted by saint4God
In the same way one can go to God and confirm that He is there.

How do you know it is the god of the bible and not Zeus, Odin, Ra,
Shangdi, Bhagavan, Waheguru, Mithras, Xwida, Tenri-Ō-no-Mikoto ,Ahura Mazda or Osiris?

In fact, what led you to the conclusion that god is a he?
Why not a She, a They or an It?

I'm sure there has been other people in history that were equaly as convinced as you are that 'Sonek the Egyptian Crocodile god' actualy existed.

How do you feel about their convictions?
Would you just mindlessly and unquestioningly beleive what they had to say without critical reasoning ?

Whats the difference with your claim?


[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

Originally posted by 5thElement
God NEEDS money.

Sorry, this information is incorrect.

'"Show me a denarius. Whose portrait and inscription are on it?"

"Caesar's," they replied.
He said to them, "Then give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."

They were unable to trap him in what he had said there in public. And astonished by his answer, they became silent." - Luke 20:24-26

God neither needs nor wants your money.

[edit on 3-3-2009 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by 5thElement
God NEEDS money.

Sorry, this information is incorrect.

Yes 5thElement! How silly of you!

God doesn't want money.... he just wants you not to idolize other Gods, be homosexual or work on the Sabbath.