Fathers rights...or the lack of

reply to post by mushninja


Holy SNIP dude!! You have totally turned me off ever having children in the USA.

What State do you live in? I will try my best to stay as far away as possible.

I feel your pain. Ive been there & it hurts - a lot.

I could write a book on what is wrong with the child support system here in Australia and the inequalities of power given to the 'custodial' parent and the resultant powerless position of the father.

For some years I worked for our federal government in the welfare compliance area. One of the main reasons I left was because I felt I wasnt doing my job and I didnt enjoy being expected to. On numerous occasions I came across young, single males on benefit who were allegedly working (usually part-time) and not declaring income. Eventually I would catch up with them and they often had little or no furniture. They were broke. And it was obvious to me they werent declaring income because they would be worse off than being on benefit alone. Declaring income would mean reduced benefits due to income tests, and a percentage of this income would go to the mother of their child - taken from them by the Child Support Agency. The mother was often in an entirely different situation. Often she would receive the Pension, Family Payment, reduced medical expenses, reduce utilities and on and on, as well be working P/T (often with little or no impact on her benefits) and to top it all off - their would be a 'boyfriend' lurking in the background who worked full-time. Often the mother had it all. A comfortable home, the company of her child, the company of her boyfriend, an income (courtesy of the government) that many single males would envy, and minimal expenses.

Some years after I left this anti-christian government department, I myself found out what it was really like to be a male separated from a partner with a 4 year old child. And its hell.

Over the years I fought my ex-partner in the family court. Lawyers were the big winners. The judges collected their paychecks and continued to dine at the swankiest restaurants. In the meantime I saw my son when his mother felt compassionate enough to let me see him and then of course only when we actually on talking terms. But it was ALWAYS on her terms - never on mine.

The Family Court, the child support agency, bureaucrats, lawyers, the judges, and all the other scum that feathered its nest at mine & other tax payers expense couldnt care less that my son and I were apart. They gave me 2 days a fortnight to see my son (too bad if I had to work overtime or shifts on those days) and 2 hours a week on a Wednesday evening. With that they also immediately commenced deductions from my paycheck of $400 per month for child support.

The whole system is corrupt, foul, and it makes me sick.

My personal opinion is the child support system here in Australia (and in America it seems) is run by feminists, lesbians, paedophiles, and other anti-family scum that dont deserve a place in society, let alone in the higher echelons of power. But we live in an evil world, and the family court/child support system is but one of its obvious manifestations.

To the OP I say this - Dont give up on your child. Because if you do thats what they will remember you for. But if you fight, and if you remain determined, and if you show you really love your child they will remember you as a father that cared. No matter what the outcome of your relationship with your child, its what you do NOW that will determine your relationship with them and how they remember you in the FUTURE.


[edit on 6-2-2009 by Nonchalant]

reply to post by mushninja


Best advice, look up the actual laws in your state first. Then see if there is something you can do to adjust the support amount. It SHOULD be based on what you are making. If that changes, you ought to be able to go to court and get it adjusted. Plus, if custody was supposed to be 50/50, did you sign anything stating otherwise? Did you have legal representation in the divorce? Do you want primary custody? Check into attorneys. See if you can find one that does pro bono work, maybe. Being male should not mean you get the short end of the stick.

I know some people getting divorced, and know the wife is doing all she can to get as much money as possible, and trying to make the guy look bad. She claims she is concerned for the kids, but I am not sure I even buy that anymore. Find out your rights, see about legal help, and I really hope you can get this worked out. The system is unbalanced, and sadly, honest caring dads pay the price for the actual deadbeats out there (my ex being one of the latter for a long time). In your case, sounds like you got hosed.

Also, after a certain age, in some places, a kid can have some say in which parent they want to live with. Something else to look in to.

The laws are changing - - slowly - but changing. And as I've said - laws also need to be enacted for mandatory proof of paternity.

I definitely support fairness for both parents - - and do not discount the horror stories posted here are real. When it's your story - nothing else matters. But I guarantee you the percentage of horror stories from the single mother's side are of a greater percentage.

Not every woman is a horror story. When I got divorced I simply took what the state allowed for his income - then never saw him again. Both my daughters became pregnant in their mid 20s - and chose not to marry the father. One of the father's fought for his rights - - he and my daughter worked everything out between themselves (no lawyers). The other father chose drugs over his son - - my daughter moved in with us - and worked two jobs to support herself. She never bothered filing for support - she considered it a waste of time. Yet - she became very close to the father's family and made sure her son spent summers with them.

Oh yeah - - I'm the horrible femnazi who raised her daughters to stick it to the man.

reply to post by Annee


I don't think anyone is denying that there are deadbeat parent's out there. It certanly is true.

What we are saying is that we arent, yet we are treated like criminals because of the simple fact that we are male. It's not that single mothers have it so easy, what I am saying is that I want my rights and responsibility to raise my son.

Not sure what is wrong with that. I don't think I would care how much CS I pay if I were allowed to be a presence in my childs life. You know, make decisions on his care, know what school he goes to, what meds (if any) he takes, things like that.

My ex doesn't even send me photographs, but they sure will put up a wanted poster on the net in a hot second if I don't make my CS payments.

Well, its cheaper to keepher. I think it should be law both spouses should get mandatory mental evaluations before the marriage certificate is given. This would give spouses a heads up for later on down the road. I am sorry you are looked at as a criminal with this case. It is as if the courts have a cookie cutter process when it comes to divorce.

reply to post by Nonchalant

The Family Court, the child support agency, bureaucrats, lawyers, the judges, and all the other scum that feathered its nest at mine & other tax payers expense couldnt care less that my son and I were apart. T

This would of course include the mother and boyfriend/boyfriends.

I believe this situation (in the uk at least) will come to a head when the first lesbians are in family court.

As the one with the breasts normally gets the kids, that require the house and the car and all that goes with that, things will have to change.

Our children are not commodities and any system that has a potential that would allows them to be used as such should be torn down.


When you remove the financial incentive's from the divorce/seperation system things change and dramatically so.

When there is a presumption of equal shared parenting regardless of any financial issues, then you find out who has the best interest of the child at heart.

I'm sick and tired of women complaining how many father "abandon" their children, this is visible as they are not in the home.
What we don't see are the amount of children who are abandoned by mothers while she is still at the home.

Yes it is possible to abandon a child without leaving the child and decent mothers who live a very contented family life and are very vocal on these issues. Should perhaps consider that the majority of cases brought before social workers that involve some harms to a child, actually involve women.


I also find it shocking how many men (in the uk) I've spoken, would rather not live with their wife but are too afraid of losing their children and being financial crippled to get divorced.
This is totally unacceptable not just for the father but for the children foremost.

Originally posted by Annee
The bottom line is: Men need to stop seeing themselves as the victim. The child is the victim.

Keep trying to contact your child even into adulthood.

NEVER tell a child - "you know where I am if you want to see me".

Actually the bottom line is that if both partners were mature enough to work through there differences like adults and see that breaking up a family is wrong, no one would have to be the victim.

Introspection, compassion and knowing what personal actions will have on everyone involved, but many people lack this trait.

People say it takes two, but that is the most over used cliche out there. It takes one.

In my situation my wife decided to lie and cheat, then file for divorce.

Paid child support when she moved out before the divorce for 9 months, because I care where my son lives, then I help her find a house to buy, fixed up the house and move into it. Why? because I care about my son.

Now she gets $400 a month for CS and she think she deserves it, she deserves nothing, but I will pay it to keep the peace. She always made more than I did. Many men get extorted by the system and the child gets used as a pawn, so the women can cry poor me, while they run around like a bunch or Jerry Springer trash.

Am I angry, damn straight, but I will choose the higher road because I want my son to know that no matter what the circumstances are that I will take care of him, even if his mother is selfish garbage.


[edit on 6-2-2009 by Realtruth]

Don't think for a second I haven't seen and experienced both sides - because I have.

I'm just not accepting this victim bull-pucky from either side. As I've stated my position. If men want equality - then they need to get serious about ALL men being responsible fathers - at least financially. They need to see the whole picture - not just there own experience. They need to get behind mandatory DNA testing for paternity. Like another poster said - - its 20 to 1 - the 20 being men that walk away abandoning all responsibility. That 20 to 1 is what most people see - even the court system. Yeah it sucks for that 1 responsible father among 20 losers.

Here's what we are going through right now. My daughter met and married a Canadian man 3 years ago. He was here in the states working with a Canadian company. His ex-wife (a very controlling type) - left him for his best friend (a doormat type). She has been in the legal system in BC for 15 years and is now a legal secretary in a major law firm. They have 2 daughters grade school age.

She has garnished his wages - got his (and my daughter's) tax refund sent to her. Had his Canadian drivers license pulled - so now he can't go to Canada to see his kids at all. Contacted their mortgage company - contacted my daughter's employer - and anything else she could do through the legal system - of which she is fully knowledgeable.

She does not need the money. Even though she left him for his best friend - - she is angry because she was unable to control him. She is doing everything she can to make them lose their house - and destroy their marriage.

So don't think its just you.

reply to post by Realtruth



Whats hilarious is that this supposed new age for women and the throwing off of traditional thinking about so many things concerning the emancipation of women, are those traditional notions are now used against men to give women so much leeway ie men are made to be chained up to old ways of thinking while women are not.

A woman can work while the state pays for childcare and the man pays CS.

What we are being told here is not that the child is so important although that is the mantra, but that marriage is a type of bondage that women can get out of all all costs. Yet all the while its the traditional idea that a child needs mother that makes this all possible. She is the one that gets to cherry pick the best of the old and new while the man is generally confined to old ways of thinking even in this new age of emancipation.

I know of men in marriages that play more of the old traditional female roles. Most women resent this and lose respect for a man in this situation, again defining men by the old terms. I know a mother-in-law that is supported by two ex husbands and yet cant stand the fact that her upwardly mobile daughters husband gets off easier in the money making department and does most of the child care, washing, cooking ect. To her he is a bum and taking advantage of the daughter even though he was the one that had to drop out of school and put his career on hold forever while he raised twin babies and delivered pizza at night for years so his wife could be a district manager making large.

reply to post by Annee



Annee, I agree regardless of the circumstances man or woman, if you bring a child into this world it is about them from the day of birth.

I truly believe this with all my heart.

Be they mother or father both need to step up to the plate and do what is best for the child.

I think what pisses me off the most is the fact that people, again be they man or woman, resort to being so selfish they forget about the child, and think only or their own needs. This sort of behavior doesn't even register in my thought process, I just cannot understand it.

Also you stat on 20 to 1 is way off, actually the stats are 75% of divorce these days are being filed by women. And that is a fact from lady guru of divorce busting.

Michelle Weiner Davis who I respect very much her methods worked fairly well in my situation even though it ended in divorce. I had sessions with one of her top therapists while we went through the process, even though my ex-wife refused to talk with her.

Did you know that of the over one million marriages that will end in divorce this year, two thirds to three quarters of those divorces will be filed for by women? What is this so-called, "Walkaway Wife" syndrome all about?

-Michelle Weiner Davis

[edit on 6-2-2009 by Realtruth]

reply to post by mushninja


I understand your frustration as I was a single dad for years, with a son who is autistic and a daughter five years younger. They are adults now, though my son still lives with me. I joined a single father's group, was involved in the gender wars for years (completely pointless) etc. I know my username would indicate that I'm female, but that's not the case, it's my current wife's name. Join up with a father's rights group in your area. You will hear many of the same stories, some far worse than your own, but you will also gain perspective on how to be the best father you can currently be, and use every bit of time you have productively. The system if by far not fair--it was worse years ago depending on state (remember Kramer vs. Kramer?). If you are going to challenge the decision, remember that the best (and only) way is to improve your own circumstances in every way possible. This analogy may be useful to you, though it was derived during martial arts training. A line was drawn on a chalkboard, and we we asked how to make the line look smaller. A number of people suggested cutting it. Then a line was drawn underneath it which was twice as long, and the question was, "how does the first line look now?" It's going to take some time for the pain to ease to the point where you can focus on what lies ahead. I've always attempted to use pain to work on something to make myself better, but not everyone does this, or can do it. I wish you the best, and please don't hesitate to contact me privately if you wish.

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


"If you want to get anywhere in this life the number one rule is, don't get married and for gods sake don't have kids! The consequences if your relationship goes wrong are potentially fatal. . . Just look at the number of fathers who have had mental breakdowns and committed suicide."

While agree with you, my kids have been worth it. But I will not deny that this is excellent advice, as your chances of getting divorced and really having problems are far greater than the 'happy ever after' scenario. Sadly, this is reality.

I feel bad for all of the father's going through a custody issue. My wife walked out years ago and I told her if she left I would have full custody. I was the one that did all of the school things, docotrs appointments, shopping all of it. I did end up getting sole physical & legal custody of my two boy's. That goes without stating that it was not very well accepted in the community. I would always get a remark from a teacher about how''it must be nice to beable to call the shots'' this right after they told me well my children are doing, always great grades and responsible. My boy's and I were ordered out of the house for 2 weeks at which time we could move back in and thier mother had to move out. So the boy's and I lived in a garage for that time, as I was not giving into any of the courts games. I won, the boy's won and she lost, not that thier lives are a game of chance. I held my ground. They haven't seen thier mother for a few years and although that particular thought is wrong in so many ways, I just have to say that there are mother's out there that wish nothing more than pain and financial pressure on the father. I have been single for many years and have met a few nice ladies, that is until they found out I was a single father, then it was over. There are a few resources out there for custody issues but I must say that it is the money the state wants and they will get it. As for me, I receive no support, no support order, and she claims them on taxes. So yes even though I do have custody, as a male I keep getting screwed on the basics. I asked my attorney about these matter's and he said I should be greatfull enough to have the boy's. Don't give up hope, strange things have been known to happen, keep your children close to you in your heart and they will know in the long run...as one said...children are smart and they will grow to understand. In the mean time get resourceful, and good luck.

I agree the system is flawed! I pay 600 a month and insurance and dental on my 2 kids. so look at about 750 a month out of my pay. PLUS, I pay for school things, sports, dance and anything else that comes up that my Ex wants. I have payed and ALWAYS have paid. When my Ex. doesn't get what she wants, she talks bad about me to the kids and then they hate me...they text me and say, well since YOU can't pay for this, I'll have my OTHER dad pay (they have no other dad, just non permanent ex's boyfriends) They are not talking to me now because I couldn't help pay for a couple things and their mom talked crap about me. I just put a new engine in my car and was very short on money this month. The Ex. always tells me she needs money like 2 days before she needs it, like I'm a bank or something. Then she threatens taking me back to court to get the child support increased if I talk bad to her.

Nixie that is the big load of rubbish i have read in the long while.


It does not matter who broke up the family the woman wins, dads have no rights, she gets the kids, the house, free legal aid, free medical, she gets ur wages, and all ur stuff in ur house and to boot she gets u to stop seeing ur kids.

Its the same in the UK, fathers have no rights, its the same in Europe fathers have no rights. my ex wife left me and but she did not get blamed for breaking up the family but me lol. she can do wants she wants, she can lie, cheat, steal, and the courts do nothing. Yet we slag off the islamic world for giving the kids to the father, in those countries , the father gets the kids because there is no welfare state, and most woman who have children in divorces are screwed, why, they end up really poor and no man will want to marry a woman with 5 kids, would you? Note though, in 99% of the Islamic world Islamic law is not applied on instigated, they have Spanish, French and English law with some little part of Islamic law, but mostly its European law. This leads to massive poverty among Muslim women in divorce, and so we westerners say oh look how Islam treats divorce women, bull, it is not Islamic law but European law that does the damage, but i digress. culturally the kids go to the father, and Islamically they do for a simple reason, woman cannot look after them on their own.


she can stop u from seeing the kids, and she can use the child support agency to get ur money off u or stop u from getting married to another woman, i.e name ur new partner to the courts, the ex can demand an assessment of the woman to see if she is fit to be with ur kids, try doing that to her new boyfriend, u have no chance. Please do not say oh its different there compared to the USA, nope its not, top bottom, mum gets the kids, and gets ur money, she can do no wrong. All this though is not the natural balance of things, its way too expensive to fund divorces, women divorce their husband for trivial reasons, like money, or they just do not need him, its the welfare state that pushes this, and putting women into the work force and her ability to earn big bucks, yep, break up of family is down to woman's selfish desire to earn for the bosses instead of their families. Its astounding really, go on the dating sites and u will see 1000s literally 1000s of women who are divorce, are you saying all them men they got rid of were beating the crap out of them, nope, its economically viable for a woman to marry a man, have his kids and then dump and take his money and his life off him in a whim.


Mothers and wives now could not careless about the kids, they use them are weapons against the father, the old mantra that mum knows best is a load of rubbish. It is mothers who do more damage to the kids and the fathers and this is proven .

reply to post by inflaymes


if ur wife is bad mouthing u to ur kids is parent alienation syndrome and its is child abuse save ur text and give them to ur lawyer. Ur ex mrs is a child abuser