If you're getting behind NH, MO, OK, and WA in their stand against the Federal gov't, Arizona is n

reply to post by Realtruth


Here's the part in Michigans books...

Rep. Opsommer offered the following concurrent resolution:

House Concurrent Resolution No. 4.

A concurrent resolution to affirm Michigan’s sovereignty under the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States and to urge the federal government to halt its practice of imposing mandates upon the states for purposes not enumerated by the Constitution of the United States.
Whereas, The Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States reads as follows: “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people”; and
Whereas, The Tenth Amendment defines the total scope of federal power as being that specifically granted by the Constitution of the United States and no more; and
Whereas, The scope of power defined by the Tenth Amendment means that the federal government was created by the states specifically to be an agent of the states; and
Whereas, Today, in 2009, the states are demonstrably treated as agents of the federal government; and
Whereas, Many federal mandates are directly in violation of the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States; and Whereas, The United States Supreme Court has ruled in New York v. United States, 112 S. Ct. 2408 (1992), that Congress may not simply commandeer the legislative and regulatory processes of the states; and
Whereas, A number of proposals from previous administrations and some now pending from the present administration and from Congress may further violate the Constitution of the United States; now, therefore, be it
Resolved by the House of Representatives (the Senate concurring), That we hereby affirm Michigan’s sovereignty under the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States over all powers not otherwise enumerated and granted to the federal government by the Constitution of the United States. We also urge the federal government to halt its practice of imposing mandates upon the states for purposes not enumerated by the Constitution of the United States; and be it further
Resolved, That copies of this resolution be transmitted to the Office of the President of the United States, the President of the United States Senate, the Speaker of the United States House of Representatives, and the members of the Michigan congressional delegation.

The concurrent resolution was referred to the Committee on Government Operations.

[edit on 2/5/2009 by Hx3_1963]

reply to post by skoalman88


I voted for Baldwin being Paul dropped out and later supported him...hard to get a "real" choice when all the MSM focuses on is just 2 partys...they're all in cahoots...

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by Dark Jester

 

Robert E. Lee was a great general but he was only commander of the Army of Virginia.

Had the CSA been a strong federal union, with Lee as the General of the Armies of the CSA, the South would of clearly won. Anyone hoping to have a sucessful revolt needs strong central leadership and unity to achieve victory.

The north had many more people, much more industry, and an actual navy. The CSA's soldiers were more motivated, but that's the only advantage I can see.

---------------------------------------------------

These declarations by the states are important because it shows that the state legislatures are aware of the federal gov overstepping its constitutional bounds, and that they are prepared to oppose these usurpations of state power and rights.

That Russian general might be on to something. The USA might get split up just like Germany did, and for the same reasons.

I guess you guys missed California in the OP list...

We passed a 10th Amendment resolution 15 years ago.

www.leginfo.ca.gov...

The 17th Amemdment to the Constitution of the United States.


If you take a close look at the Constitution of the United States prior to the 17th Amemdment taking effect, the Senators to Washington D. C. were elected by the state governments. They were not elected by popular vote as is done today.

The intent, as originally done in the US Consitution, was to have the Senators represent the State buisness in Washington D. C. To do this they needed to be elected by the State government ..not by the people of the states. The people already had Represenatives in the House of the Federal Congress.

What you have in Washington DC now is two Houses of Represenatives elected by the people ..popular vote. No one is looking out for the buisness of the respective states. This was the intent of the 17th Amemdment. To break the power of the states over the Federal Government. It has been remarkably successful in weakening the power of the states. The 17th Amendment, Like Prohibition, needs to be repealed and the State Senators once again elected by the State Legislators such that they can once again serve as a check and balance to an overly strong and powerful Federal Government.

State sovereignty and rights has been an issue since the founding of this nation. It continues and seems to be returning as an issue once more. People are begining to suspect that an all powerful Federal Government is not the way to go.

Through the years there have been many issues between the state governments and the Federal ..over heavyhandedness of the Feds into state affairs. Most of these issues have been kept out of the news and media by careful manipulation of informations. It seems to be coming out again in times of tight budgets and the states are once again resentful of the strong Federal prescence over their affairs.

While I am all for the inforcement of both the 9th and 10th Amemdments, the 17th Amemdment and what it bodes for the states is one of which the people and the states also need to take a closer look and understanding in returning the power in this country back to the people and the states.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by cogburn
I guess you guys missed California in the OP list...

We passed a 10th Amendment resolution 15 years ago.

www.leginfo.ca.gov...

At first I was really surprized. But then it makes sence. CA has always wanted to step out on their own with laws. Maybe the rest of the country does not agree with them, but that is what our great nation is suppose to be about. Good find, star for you!

All these 10th enforcement laws by these states are better than nothing, but the New Hampshire one stands out. They have put the gun to the Feds head with the or else spelled out.

reply to post by whatukno


Yeah, like my state of IL, home of barry husein and dick durbin would ever consider this, this is the most corrupt state in the union and one of the most liberal pollitically.

We have had 7 governers arrested and put in jail. They use the constitution as toilet paper in this state.

Originally posted by skoalman88
Call me a cynic but these bills, while symbolic, will result in no sort of uprising, mass movement towards change, or anything that would require an American to get off his/her ass and exert his/herself. Let's not act like the catalysts for one of the above haven't been around for decades and all the while no one has done anything but complain to their neighbors (or whatever) and (these days) post on a forum or on their blog. (On that note, can I make the argument that the Internet has overtaken television as the great pacifier?)
These people bought whatever their MSM (be it FoxNews, MSNBC, or NPR) was selling.
Simply put: nothing is going to happen, nothing will ever happen, nothing will get better so long as American's continue to drink the Kool-Aid and Dancing With the Stars and TMZ is on the air.
[edit on 5-2-2009 by skoalman88]

Ok then.
I think alot of Americans are in the mood. They are sitting and going to themselves, "Tell when and tell me where to show up"!
I think rally's are the way to go right now. Taking to the streets will only result in Martial Law as you will get the very few that incite violence and have nothing to do with the cause.
There has got to be a way to get state and local govt. to let an arena or whatever to be used. Most radio stations would get behind it to promote, but it might take hand to hand combat with signs and flyers.

Originally posted by stinkhorn
reply to post by whatukno

 

Yeah, like my state of IL, home of barry husein and dick durbin would ever consider this, this is the most corrupt state in the union and one of the most liberal pollitically.

We have had 7 governers arrested and put in jail. They use the constitution as toilet paper in this state.

Even though your own state my seem hopeless at this point, please do help in the cause with other states. Eventuly, it will come around.

We the People of the United States of America do proudly stand up for what our nation was "supposed" to stand for. It's time to turn on the light of freedom in our fellow Americans.
When they know not, teach them.
When they feel not, lift them up to the light of freedom and show them that a few, can make a big difference.

reply to post by resistor


The CSA took the best of the leadership of the US military. Its troops were much better marksmen and horsemen. The initial battles of the war really showed this. Initially it looked like they would of won based on combat performance, but they were disorganized. This soon became painfully obvious and without them being able to carry out joint operations under a unifed command US forces could engage and defeat each CSA state's forces individually. Without any unified structure each CSA state had its own logistics system and it was a nightmare to supply their forces.

With the US naval blockade and northern industry, time was not on the CSA's side. Under a unified command they would of needed to launch joint operations against Washington, D.C., capture it and try to force the US into negotiations. After the battle of Bull Run/Manassas, the CSA could have descended upon a poorly defended Washington D.C. and easily taken the city. Had Washington been taken, recognition would of been pretty much guaranteed by the British and they would of easily broke the US naval blockade.

My ultimate point with all of this is any secession by the states will fail without strong central leadership and unity on part of the secessionist forces.

Just throwing this idea out there....I recall during Obama's inauguration they continually compared him to Abraham Lincoln. He even used some of Lincoln's words during his speech. I remember the MSM saying that he saw himself as a "Lincoln type" of President. I found it odd...Since Lincoln was the only President to fight a Civil war (one fought over States rights) I find it a little creepy now...Maybe He knows something we don't?

Maybe not...

Obama apparently wants to model himself after Lincoln as a unifying national figure—a repairer of the breach.

Source



[edit on 5-2-2009 by ag2000]

reply to post by Hx3_1963


Agree 100%

Originally posted by whaaa
Don't get me wrong; I'm all for states rights but....
Do you know how much "states" rely on tax$$$ from the Feds for their infrastructure? Federal grants, loans, approiations....A lot!

Most states couldn't generate enough income to repair the roads without federal monies. School systems, Univ. roads, communications, research,
Military bases, all pretty much federally funded in conjunction with state taxes.

New Mexico where I live would revert back to desert in a heartbeat without federal $$$.

If the states tell the feds to piss off, the money would also dry up.

Sorry just being realistic. The feds got the "states" by the short hairs.

It's a brave new world, welcome to the monkey house!

Actually, States are easily able to raise the money to handle their own infrastructure from the people within their borders, but that requires telling the Federal government that the days of the Federal Income Tax are over. It's surprising to see how many people think that the Federal Income tax always existed. The really depressing thing about the taxes is that they all started due to wars. The first was because of the War of 1812, then there was the Civil War. It's been going since then. Here's a good link the the Income Tax History.

We as States could do fine, but we'd have to stop paying Uncle Sam and start making our money work within our own States. We'd still have to give some money to the Federal Government, but only to run a bare-bones operation. Nothing in the Constitution says we have to have all of these programs and Departments in the Federal Government. We could scrap 90% of all of it, and move those powers to the States, where that power belongs.

Originally posted by ag2000
Just throwing this idea out there....I recall during Obama's inauguration they continually compared him to Abraham Lincoln. He even used some of Lincoln's words during his speech. I remember the MSM saying that he saw himself as a "Lincoln type" of President. I found it odd...Since Lincoln was the only President to fight a Civil war (one fought over States rights) I find it a little creepy now...Maybe He knows something we don't?

Maybe not...

Obama apparently wants to model himself after Lincoln as a unifying national figure—a repairer of the breach.

Source



[edit on 5-2-2009 by ag2000]

And he's more than welcome to do so. He can get rid of 90% of the Federal Government by walking down to the Library of Congress and getting out the books on what programs, agencies, and departments were in existence during the days of Jefferson and then paring todays Federal Government back to those levels.

Of course, he won't, which is why all of the States are saying, "Enough!" The Federal Government is spinning out of control, growing at an exponential rate, as is our debt. When the Federal Government falls, it'll be a very loud thud, heard around the world. The States are taking action so that when it happens, not if, the States will be ready to go it alone.

Originally posted by bpg131313

Actually, States are easily able to raise the money to handle their own infrastructure from the people within their borders, but that requires telling the Federal government that the days of the Federal Income Tax are over. It's surprising to see how many people think that the Federal Income tax always existed. The really depressing thing about the taxes is that they all started due to wars. The first was because of the War of 1812, then there was the Civil War. It's been going since then. Here's a good link the the Income Tax History.

We as States could do fine, but we'd have to stop paying Uncle Sam and start making our money work within our own States. We'd still have to give some money to the Federal Government, but only to run a bare-bones operation. Nothing in the Constitution says we have to have all of these programs and Departments in the Federal Government. We could scrap 90% of all of it, and move those powers to the States, where that power belongs.

Agree that the states are able to raise most of their moneys on their own.
Also that the income taxes started due to a war..other taxes as well..to finance wars.

The purpose of the Income Tax on the Federal level is not to raise moneys for the Federal Government. It is known by people in the Treasury Department that if they had a flat tax some 10% or so the Government would take in more moneys than they ever took in. This was admitted on television many years ago by a Treasury spokesperson appearing on Good Morning America with host David Hartman.

If the income tax was gotten rid of tomorrow the value of the American Dollar would go to its real intrinsic value very quickly.....ZERO! What the income tax does is give the phony fiat money system a value it would not naturally hold on its own. The income tax also hides the fraud of how much the government is stealing out of the US economy by deficit spending....creating new moneys out of nothing.

Zero is exactly where we are headed by such deficit/Stealing/spending as these incentive programs/stimulus programs coming up and more to follow down the road. From the other end this too will bring the value of the moneys to ZERO as well. It is just a matter of how fast do you want the moneys to go to ZERO??

Keeping governments ...state, local, and federal with just barely enough moneys to make ends meet is how one keeps ones liberties. A free government will always exercise its power at the expense of the people of any nation. It is the government which must remain enslaved and serving the people. The only way to successfully do this is by keeping government broke or on bare minimums.

Any government which can borrow expense moneys on lines of credit will continue to do so and maintain its ability to extract from the people by force and taxation. Inflation..rising prices is a form of taxation...work you must do without receiving any goods and services for it....same result as any tax.

As government ruins the value of a nations currency..it only opens the doors for outside investment to buy up a country or nation for pennies on the dollar as was done in Mexico in the inflation of the 1970s and early 1980s. Anything of value was bought up by outsiders and you began seeing goods made in Mexico. We see this now as foreign companies/countries are attempting to buy up anything of value in America. The interesting thing about this is that our own leaders are not teaching us where this is headed down the road with their insatiable appetite for moneys to finance their ability of the parties to remain in power.

The problem with this happening is that, over time, it often necessitates a radical change of the government charter in doing and continuing this bailout. Hence a change of law and government.

This is the NWO so feared by many on these type boards.

They will be ready to step in and buy up this whole country at bargain basement prices along with the change of government required by them.

All it takes is the loss of value in the American money system. If you look carefully you will see neither the Republicans nor Democrats doing anything to stop this trend but only spend more on deficit borrowing.
Some of the posters on boards like this are correct in that there is no difference in either political party in this regard.

Something for some of you about which to think.

Orangetom

[edit on 5-2-2009 by orangetom1999]

Ok guys, I've been a little busy with this topic and have done some research. I got together some links for you guys and a letter to send to your own representative. Email this to friends and family as well so they can contact their own reps.

Here is a link so you can find out your zip+4 necessary to see who your representative is:
zip4.usps.com...

Here is where you go to find out who your rep. is and to e-mail them:
writerep.house.gov...

Here is the letter I wrote (feel free to copy and paste for yourself):

I'm writing this message to express my support for the state's sovereignty movement. Our nation's founding leaders penned the constitution to guarantee the American people's liberties and right to pursue happiness for as long as the idea can exist. I still think that idea of freedom exists today and believe the only way we can salvage our rights is to turn the major policy making process and power back over to our state's representatives...like you! This ability was built into the United States Constitution for a reason and I'm glad some state's representative are fighting for the Americans they were appointed to serve.

The 10th amendment reads: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." and limits the federal government to powers expressly delegated and therefore denies any claims to powers that have been "implied". This means that many federal laws and regulations actually exist outside the legal scope of the constitution and are therefore illegal and do not apply to American residents in ANY state.

I am including information for state bills that a few states are trying to have approved in their own sessions. I believe New Hampshire's is actually on the floor today. I have included contact info. for sponsors of the bills as well in case you wanted to contact them.

I truly do thank you for your time. This country was founded by people like you and I who wanted to stand up for what we believe in and I think there is enough momentum in America right now to maybe stand a little taller and speak a little louder about the principals we hold to be true and self evident.




NH House Concurrent Resolution 6:
www.gencourt.state.nh.us...
Tim Comerford - [email protected]
Daniel Itse - [email protected]
Paul Ingbretson - [email protected]
Sen. William Denley - [email protected]

Michigan House Resolution No. 6:
www.legislature.mi.gov...(S(21rmjiv1sl0wvw55yxurwl55))/documents/2009-2010/Journal/House/pdf/2009-HJ-01-22-002.pdf

Michigan contact - Rep. Paul Opsommer: [email protected]

Missouri HR 212:
www.house.mo.gov.../bills091/bills/HR212.HTM
Sponsor - Cynthia L. Davis [email protected]
Co -sponsor - Timothy W. Jones [email protected]

Montana House Bill No. 246:
data.opi.mt.gov...
Sponsored by Joel Boniek - Home: (406)220-1240 (can’t find his e-mail)

Oklahoma State Sovereignty bill HJR 1089:
www.therightsideoflife.com...
webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us...
Charles Key - [email protected]

Washington 10th amendment HJM 4009:
apps.leg.wa.gov...

Washington residents can e-mail reps here:
apps.leg.wa.gov...

Matt Shea - (360) 786-7984
Brad Klippert - (360) 786-7882
Cary Condotta - (360) 786-7954
Joel Kretz - (360) 786-7988
Glenn Anderson - (360) 786-7876
Jim McCune - (360) 786-7824
Dan Kristiansen - (360) 786-7967

Hawaii - Movement for a Constitutional Convention:
www.hawaii-nation.org...

California SJR 44 from 1994:
www.leginfo.ca.gov...

Arizona State Sovereignty bill HCR 2024:
www.azleg.gov.../legtext/49leg/1r/bills/hcr2024p.htm

AZ Representatives sponsoring the resolution:

Cecil P. Ash - [email protected]
Nancy K. Barto - [email protected]
Andy Biggs - [email protected]
Judy M. Burges - [email protected]
Tom Boone - [email protected]
Cloves C. Campbell Jr. - [email protected]
Steve Court - [email protected]
Rich Crandall - [email protected]
Sam Crump - [email protected]
Adam Driggs - [email protected]
Patricia V. Fleming - [email protected]
Doris Goodale - [email protected]
David Gowan - [email protected]
Laurin Hendrix - [email protected]
John Kavanagh - [email protected]
Debbie Lesko - [email protected]
Lucy Mason - [email protected]
John McComish - [email protected]
Barbara McGuire - [email protected]
Ben R. Miranda - [email protected]
Steve B. Montenegro - [email protected]
Rick Murphy - [email protected]
Warde V. Nichols - [email protected]
Lynne Pancrazi - [email protected]
Frank Pratt - [email protected]
Doug Quelland - [email protected]
Carl Seel - [email protected]
David Stevens - [email protected]
Andrew M. Tobin - [email protected]
Jerry Weiers - [email protected]
AZ Senator Jack W. Harper - [email protected]

reply to post by orangetom1999


That's all the more reason for States to declare their sovereignty. I know it's coming down the road, we're spending way to much and this "stimulus" bill is growing more by the day. It's absurd. At this point I almost relish the idea of a federal collapse so the States can start doing things on their own. If we keep this union, we'll have to ensure that safeguards are in place to severely limit spending by the federal government.

As things exist today though, I'd rather the States handle their business themselves.

Originally posted by j2000
Ok then.
I think alot of Americans are in the mood. They are sitting and going to themselves, "Tell when and tell me where to show up"!
I think rally's are the way to go right now. Taking to the streets will only result in Martial Law as you will get the very few that incite violence and have nothing to do with the cause.
There has got to be a way to get state and local govt. to let an arena or whatever to be used. Most radio stations would get behind it to promote, but it might take hand to hand combat with signs and flyers.

Then let's get planning!!! I disagree with the radio station thought however.

[edit on 5-2-2009 by skoalman88]

For over thirty years I have been a Patriot. For those new to this term I will define it: during the first Revolution ‘we the people’ took up arms, our own, and fought for our freedom. There was the Patriots and the Loyalists. We did not have a President. Patriotism is taken from this word which means to defend FREEDOM, not necessarily a president or governmental body, but freedom in general for all.

The Second Amendment was for that purpose alone, that we the people would always have the right to take up our arms, guns, against any governing body that would try to usurp our freedom.

Like many of you I grew up believing that the people we elected to serve us as our voice to the world, would in fact actually defend freedom and protect the Constitutional Rights of all the people of America. The Constitution enumerates the rights of all Americans, not just some, based on some outside criteria or label created by man. These rights were to ensure us that we would never know a Police State mentality or Dictatorship regime.

I spoke out. I helped stop GWEN. I fielded calls and passed on intel. I prayed and believed that the American people would never stand for such a takeover. When JFK was shot I knew in my small child heart something had changed and was not good.

I saw 9/11 happen and I knew with the first plane it was an inside job and did not bode well for America. I heard General Keegan speak, I remember the history of Nazi Germany and how Hitler rose to power and all the politics that went with is. Still I wanted to believe that not in America would this happen.

The election was not fixed, it is stacked. They use two of their people and then let the attacks happen and see which one the people get behind, then they push the envelope and which ever one wins, we still lose.

I drove across the country and only one name kept coming up on signs everywhere between here and the NE most part of Maine, Ron Paul.

Dr. Keys is fighting in court to stop Obama as are so many, yet the Judiciary is backing the takeover. Hollywood is on board.

I am in grief and pain in my heart for the death of America and its freedom, as Abraham Lincoln said, “our Enemy will come from within.” How can so many be fooled? They are tired, they are scared and they are uneducated in truth.

What can be done? The law will not help us. Even the FBI who is supposed to be the strong defender, counts those who care about freedom and desire to protect the Constitutional Rights of all, as terrorists.

I was on a site looking into solar panels for RV’s and the site asks us, “If you are not prepared, tell me why?” Maybe because so many of us have enough to get through the week or the month and nothing more. Are we joining together to help one another? NO. Are we giving jobs to those of like mind so we can have enough to buy survival equipment? NO.

But even if we had the stuff, where do we think we are going? This is a global takeover. They have weapons we know not of. They have technologies they have been testing including drugs. We can complain and we can file petitions, we can protest, but as we have seen they have little or no affect. Give me answers. As a Near Death Survivor I came back with a message and hope in my heart and today I feel empty and sad for humanity for it appears they prefer slavery, oppression, abuse, lies and deception to the opposite.

I am somewhere now where I am cut off from former friends and feel very alone. Now more the ever.