Should Magik Be Used Responsibly?!?!

Who believe that since we are created in God's image, that we would naturally also contain within ourselves a microuniverse, as well as a 'god spark'... I forget the name of this group, though. Could this not be possible?

Then there are the Kabalists, the older Jewish sect who works magic, all in the name of God. Are they wrong to do so?

Catholic priests used to have, within their texts, magic ceremonies and rites, one of which was for exorcisms... these spells have been removed, though... you have to get a copy of this book written before 1968...

Shamans preform rites to become one with a guardian or clan spirit, to help better oneself, to help others... an ability granted by Grandfather...

There are so many groups and religions that revolve around magic... as a side question, how many people here have taken the time to study what their religion truly is, or what it once was? I'm sure they'd be mildly suprized to find out some things...

Oh, let;s not forget the people who were born with abilities... are they evil? Or are these talents God-given?

Anyway, magic, like anything else, should be done respectfully and responsibly.

When one begins to study Kabbalah; they can start to see that 'The Bible' was actually written by Kabbalists.....

Good link for Kabbalah, despite the misleading Eurocentric Biblical depictions:

www.gnostickabbalah.com...

Another:

www.gnosis-usa.com...



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tamahu thats not true, anyone could just say oh the bible wasnt written by saints prophets etc. gnostic kabbalahs are just put there to decieve the masses. like theyve already done. ^

I didn't say that they weren't saints and/or 'prophets'.

Does being a Kabbalist somehow make it impossible for them to be saints/prophets?

I'll take Gnosticism over that Roman Catholic type nonsense anyday.

(And yes; Protestant beLIEfs are based on the Roman Church's beLIEfs, even though there are some differences).




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[Edited on 29-4-2004 by Tamahu]

The Bible... more accurate-ly, the Old Testament, is the Torah of the Kabal... to them, there is nothing else (well, there are the Keys of Solomon...)...

Then, if people research their own religions, they'd find things out... like how the Old Testament is based on the Dead Sea Scrolls, which were written by the Essenes, a religious group dedicated to study and research of other diferent religions, believe-ing that they are all different facets and aspects of God...

www.essenespirit.com...

Sounds like Kabalism to me...

Go a little bit deeper... you'll find out that the two major sources of information used by the Essenes were the Chaldeans and the Hindu's... Hinduism was, in part, influenced by a man named Zoroaster, a Sumerian exiled because he taught in a single High God...

www.zoroaster.com...

The Chaldeans were a group of nomads who were experts in magic and science, and once they settled, became the forefathers of civilization. That's right, the Chaldeans were also known as Sumerians, and they first settled in the area to be known as Ur...

Isn't it interesting that the Judian/Hebrew Bible is based on Sumerian teachings... full of magic and wonder?

[Edited on 4/30/2004 by panchovilla]

[Edited on 4/30/2004 by panchovilla]

Here is a question for yall:

If you are done wrong to, will you still get in "karmic"(or whatever you believe in) trouble if you seek retaliation through magick?

[Edited on 4/30/2004 by panchovilla]

Originally posted by shidge.
Here is a question for yall:

If you are done wrong to, will you still get in "karmic"(or whatever you believe in) trouble if you seek retaliation through magick?

Opinion will vary widely on this one. I for one, believe in part that we are the agents of karma, that is we decide the punishment and it should fit the crime.

That said, I have done retaliatory things, but these have only been done for the BIG # overs, if you know what I mean...in other words I would never just go out and put warts on somebody who cut me off in traffic etc..stuff like that. YOu have to pick and choose your battles.

Let me explain a bit where I'm coming from.

I've been an eclectic wiccan for years, and into faery/celtic wicca for the last few. I've studied extensively various types of the Craft so I know from where I speak.

Now I also know the threefold law, and I understand all about Karma, so I'm extremely careful about what I do, which is why I don't go off on simply the average Joe who just happens to be rude to me in public. This is life and we'll never get rid of the assholes that populate this planet.

Now, having said that, I also believe that there is no way the Goddess/God would ever punish me for defending myself against a genuine cretin who generally has no other motive other then ruining my life.

So...what I usually do is ask one of the Goddesses or several of them for Justice (There are special Justice/avenging Goddesses), and if she or they thought punishment should be forthcoming for the crime, then an appropriate punishment would ensue.

A recent example:

A while back I was fired from a job I loved with no warning, none. all the feedback I was given was positive, I was always on time, etc.

At a managers meeting one day our manager told us of a problem wherein a customer had overheard one of my co-workers threatening to kick a customers ass if they ever saw this person in the street.

Our manager then said to us that whatever we did while we were out of uniform was on our own time and nothing to do with the company and we had her full blessing.

Fast forward a week later and this horrible woman, I call her Toad-Woman, comes in and is just the rudest customer I have EVER had. Remembering my bosses words I vow that if I ever see her in the street I'm gonna read her the riot act.

So guess what happens the very next day ? Yep ! I'm at the post office and in comes Toad Woman, I immediately lite into her, telling her that she is the lousiest excuse for a human being I have ever seen. at no time did I cuss at her or touch her.

She tells me I'm only saying these things because she's a Mexican. I was astonished because her skin was as white as mine...furthermore, I didn't even know she was HUMAN let alone Mexican.

So she says she's gonna go tell my manager that I dared to curse out her, the almighty customer, I tell her to go ahead that it will make no difference and I reiterate what my boss told us at the meeting.

A week later, I'm fired. No chance to explain my side. Nothing. I suspect this cow played the race card and so my boss had to fire me being the PC bitch that she is.

Anyhoo..it wasn't about only being fired (although that was bad and unfair enough) it was the WAY it was done.

The day before was the staff Xmas party and even though she knew I was fired the next day, my boss acted like everything was normal and fine and dandy. (I know this because the next day when they fired me they gave me my final check and it was dated the day before).

Plus, she couldn't even ask my side of the story, she couldn't even fire me myself. She had to have the assistant manager do it and he was heartsick about it.

Sorry this story was so long but I needed to illustrate what I deem a major #ing over.

And this experience certainly applies.

These people (including Toad-Woman), thought that they could just erase me as if I didn't exist. just toss me aside like garbage. In addition to ruining my childrens Christmas, they also took away my only source of income without a care in the world.

People that do these kinds of things to me will learn that I will not tolerate this.

I agree with what Levay says (even though I am definitely not satanic) in that if someone #s with you once, ignore him...if he does it again, destroy him.

This particular business is learning. And all I did was ask the Goddess for retribution. SHE distributed the punishment. The punishment she saw as fitting. This business (I have to go past it every day on my way to work) is slowly deteriorating. I know it because I can see the lack of business as I go past, plus I have a friend on the inside (the assistant manager who had the job of firing me) and he tells me that they are going under, but he's got another job lined up (The goddess provides, for GOOD people)...but my ex-boss is going to learn what it feels like to suddenly lose your job and have to wonder how to feed your family and pay the rent.

End of story.

So that's it. I don't think I have a problem with Karma. I ask the Goddess for protection and retribution and let her decide what punishment suits the crime.

Fascinating story KayEm. Though I think it may have been a bit extreme to call the person a poor excuse for human life, I cannot help but to relate with your story. I am also quite sorry that this massively bitchy (I say this because of both the timing of her decision as well as how she insincerely treated you the day before) former boss of yours acted in such a manner, but sometimes, people can be quite crude and cynically devious.

I think that this story exemplifies karma in action, and I am not quite sure, but I don't think karmaic laws are limited to those who use magic. I am heavily interested in becoming educated in this regard, so, again, if anyone is willing to be my teacher...
I say this about karma because, to memory, I do not know any spells and am not trained in any of the occult arts... but... I am paying through the nose for my previous actions.

Some time ago, I used to be quite the little # of a kid at certain times when I thought nobody was looking. I would play silly pranks on my teachers and would sometimes be a judgemental asshole. Some of the things I would say when I was angry at people were almost always devestating, to say the least. I would go on random vandalism runs and caused lots of damage to personal properties with certain bad former friends of mine. Now that I have had the fortune and time to think about what I have done and how badly I have hurt people's feelings, I have apologized endlessly for these actions, but, understandably, I still have some horrendous luck. Fortunately, I know better these days and would always consider what I am doing, especially if it could have negative consequences. As a matter of fact, I go out of my way not to incur any kind of negative impacts on individuals.

How do I have such bad luck?

A lot of times when I drive around, I see police cars everywhere. Many of my friends who have been in my car on such drives have claimed "you know, I only see so many feds on the road when I'm with you."

I have been pulled over by bored cops at least 10 times in a period of 4 years, many of them shortly after some of my worst negative actions. I was even arrested for a DUI when I was PARKED . Seriously, and I even took full responsibility and saved two of my other friends present with me from federal persecution.

I have lost so many friends due to reasons I cannot understand, and am usually the first person who is blamed when something goes wrong. To make matters worse, I am usually not forgiven for my mistakes but I always forgive their mistakes, nonetheless. But I never forget.

Almost all of the people that I meet are either incompatible or completely the polar opposite of my astrological sign of Libra.

I have lost multiple wallets for good, all of them having quite the wad of cash in them, not to mention other items of value. In my defense, I'm not one to lose my possessions so easily.

At one of my last jobs, I had 13 bosses; the highest amount anyone there had breathing over their necks. Yes, 13 bosses.

My car somehow attracts a lot of this bad luck:
some guy who was reversing their car turned a bit too sharply and smashed my side,
another guy sideswiped the hell out of my car and ripped my side mirror from its socket upon impact,
I replaced one tire for having a bubble in the rubber only to have another tire with another bubble the very next day after driving over an unavoidable pothole,
a huge linear crack on the windshield somehow managed to form all by itself,
and my door handle randomly breaks in my hand one day. And dont even get me started on all the random failures it has had like one time with the heating system becoming malfunctional.

But, in contrast, I do appreciate the good fortunte that I have, and always thank the higher powers for their protection.

The company that treated KayEm go badly was treated to a Nidstang by me. the Nidstang (pronounced 'Nithstang') is an old Viking / Asatru curse designed to disrupt the house/business premises of the target.

Given the requirements of the curse (a horses head on a pole carved with runes), I was unable to perform an original one. I did, however create a new version using the Ehwaz rune instead of the horses head. (Ehwaz is the horse rune).

Nidstang

I can't confirm that it worked or not - all I know is that the business is going down.

I don't think my reaction to Toad-Woman was extreme at all. You see, people like her get their kicks by going around and tormenting customer service workers simply because they ALLOWED to by corporate law.

She needed to know that those of us who put up with crap from her on a daily basis can and do draw our lines in the sand. I call it evil to torment people just because you're allowed to. Anybody who has ever worked in customer service will know how shabbily we are treated for the most part by the general public, most of them we can deal with and move on..but there are some so vile, and so unremorseful about how they treat you that you just have to take a stand and do something.

Plus, you have to think of what this creature did to me. She not only played the race card, but was SO outraged that a little working person like myself dared to speak out against people like her that she went and had me fired, losing my only income just before Christmas.

So no. I don't think what I did was extreme in the least.

I too have had a similar experience to KayEm. I was fired from my job because a man/customer was sexually harassing me. I told my boss, also a man. I did not feel comfortable around this customer and was not friendly to him afterwards. My boss wanted me to be sweet and friendly to him. I told him I could not do that. So he fired me saying the customer is more important. I couldn't beleave it, I had worked there for two and a half years and was the manager.

I too had asked the Goddesses of justice, to justify me and to speed there negative karma back to them. Well, exactly a year latter to the day, they went out of business. So yes, like KayEm I to feel you have to pick your battles. I think it is important that you think through all the consequences of how magick will be used. And I never use magick when I am angry. I wait a few days, calm down and think of the path I am taking.

Magic should only be used to spell the word 'magic' correctly.
If you don't believe in Webster's dictionary, and insist on making up words, then magic should only be used to change the spelling of 'magic' to 'majek' (I want to make up words too!) .

Originally posted by curme
Magic should only be used to spell the word 'magic' correctly.
If you don't believe in Webster's dictionary, and insist on making up words, then magic should only be used to change the spelling of 'magic' to 'majek' (I want to make up words too!) .

In which case, that's a load of bollekcs

Originally posted by curme
Magic should only be used to spell the word 'magic' correctly.
If you don't believe in Webster's dictionary, and insist on making up words, then magic should only be used to change the spelling of 'magic' to 'majek' (I want to make up words too!) .

Contrary to popular knowledge there are two ways to spell magic(k).

The first magic has to do with sideshow tricks and David Copperfield type showmanship.

The magick Earthmagick and I speak of has to do with pagan ways of using energy and the earths natural resources to work magick.

We go by the Goddesses Dictionary, not Websters.


Earth Magick,

That is despicable what happened to you. And the thing is, our stories are hardly unique.

Tales of customer service worker abuse are legend because in large part customers don't see us as human, and management are either too spineless, or busy kissing the customers asses (sorry to be so blunt but it's the truth) to take our side over the customers. Doesn't matter that they are wrong. Customers know they can treat us like # and they'll get away with it. Not only that, they'll be welcomed back with open arms (by the management only of course).

I don't believe that we have to put up with it. Like I said I do nothing to the ordinary annoying jerkoffs I have to serve everyday but when somebody seriously screws me, as Toad-Woman did, I ask for justice.

But you are right, Earth Magick. It is important to give it a few days to calm down before doing any magick. Although it was hard for me because I cried for about a week straight. My feelings of hatred for Toad-Woman at that point were pretty high. But I believe the Goddess knew this and took it into consideration.

Oh...and here's a post-script:

I saw the evil bitch tonight at the Dairy Queen. She didn't see me and was driving past, but immediately all the old feelings came back. I'm not sure she was punished by the Goddess because she just looked too damn healthy lol. But then again, the punishment always fits the crime and it wasn't as if she tried to kill me (literally anyway, you can emotionally destroy someone by costing them their job though).

as a true satanist ,an a member of
www.churchofsatan.com

i can tell u that magik does not exist as people see it

the true force behind it is

influence

Originally posted by panchovilla

[Edited on 4/30/2004 by panchovilla]

[Edited on 4/30/2004 by panchovilla]

The things Tamahu and I spoke of were taken... not too well, to say the least... apparently someone checked our links and thought otherwise...

all this talk about cursing. it does not fare well with me. walk softly through the world and softly those you will meet walk with a curse upon your tongue and now and again you will get it wrong. you run the risk of bumping into someone who also does magic unknown to you and there�s might be more powerful. karma. vengeance is for the weak minded. magic should be used responsibly i think with out a doubt. for it is real and can be immeasurably damaging not just to those it is directed upon but also to those who use it.

Originally posted by TrentReznor
as a true satanist ,an a member of
www.churchofsatan.com

i can tell u that magik does not exist as people see it

the true force behind it is

influence

So it's still going then ? I thought it fell apart when LaVey died. I'd heard that Blanche Barton had taken over, but then nothing.
No, I'm not a Satanist, but I find LaVey fascinating.