Should Magik Be Used Responsibly?!?!

Sorry if this feels like a short rant but I think it needs to be said. There really seems to be some irresponsible uses of energies here. Between users who want precog for figuring out lotto numbers to those who want telekensis to impress their friends, I would like to hear of some people who respect and understand that which can be controled.
I kinda feel like I'm one of a very few who has heard of the Threefold Return rule or something.

Well what's everyone's take on it?

Should Magik serve us and help us further our own goals as we see fit, as was prescribed by Anton LaVey?

Or should we use the natural powers in ways that are postitive only with ethical universal rules governing the use of energy?

I for one support the rules used by lightsiders, Zenists and Neo-Pagans.


[Edited on 13-4-2004 by urbanmastermind]

Personally, I believe in the 'Tenfold Rule'. I'm Empathetic Phycic (mostly). I found that when I use it, say to feel out a woman's possible interests in me for the purpose of getting nookie, it will backfire bad. If I do the same so I can tell whether or not she's interested for the sake of just getting to know her better, it goes just fine.

I have all other psychic abilities as well, but the only ones that are remotly developed are the Empathetic and forsight.

Without evil, there cannot be good. If your intentions are good a majority of the time, evil intentions will backfire. If your intentions are evil most of the time, any good you do will backfire. That's my take on it.

no dont use magic. seriously. dont use any. youll end up with a dead uncle or a dead relative, before you know it, youll be having symptoms of posession, visits from the dead, evil thoughts, lustfull thinking. whatever you use it for, youll still get something bad in return just like what he said. ^ ive had many friends use a little craft here and there, and actually get what they casted over. i know of one kid who was a victim of some other persons spellwork, hes been haunted for a mere three years now, by yes real demons.

Sorry if I sound like a asshole but Majik doesnt exist to me. Only by supreme beings such as "angels" or heavenly creatures and demonic creatures of hell. The heavens have the power to use majik in an afterlife, granted there is one.
I would like to be convinced majik exists as something more than just in stories and fables, but the fact of the matter is if majik was/is prevelant we would have alot of people using it. Its simply lore and not real.

Magick isn't just having the spell going through the motions and then waiting for your miracle, not to get into too much detail but this kind of stuff takes practice.

The people that dive in and want lotto numbers and telekenetic powers, well let them go for it.

Yes Magick should be used responsibly and it is very dangerous stuff ifyou don't know what you're doing.

Though I don't think wanting material possessions is truly a bad thing, it's how you go about using the magick to attain your dreams, goals and desires that really throws the ol' three fold rule into effect.

So let them ask their questions and try their spells they'll either learn or they'll stop.

Nothing wrong with a few lustful thoughts now and then anyhoo.



SpiderJ tha mage

. Only by supreme beings such as "angels" or heavenly creatures and demonic creatures of hell. The heavens have the power to use majik in an afterlife, granted there is one.

There are some forms of ritual magick that deal with invoking or summoning demons and spirits, that could tie into your religion (only if ya wanted it to though no pressure).

An exorcism while based in prayer could be consider a magick ritual as could Holy Communion.

Just an opinion don't wanna piss off anybody's God or Gods.

Spiderj

As a Comparitive Religions major (studing under Dr. Jim Lewis) I have seen quite a bit of Majik and the like, and as a Zenist I believe that it should be used with the most care and respect and understanding that one can afford it! Otherwise there can be massive massive consiquences. I have had Majik work for me many times and, interestingly most of in involved Wiccans or *gasp* Christians lol.

Haha, spider no need to worry about pissing off my gods because I am still undececided on if they exist or not. My whole thing with majik is that when I was younger I read alot about the whole issues of majok and tried many ceremonies between friends and nothing has ever happened from them that would prove to me that majok exists. I think exorcisms are related to "gods" as people who have the power to do majik, again granted they are real.

Here's a good example of using magic to please yourself:

Say I want money. I perform some magick, and all of a sudden I come into alot of money. If I blow all of the money on self-gratification, there will be consequences. If I use most of that money to build the projects I want, or to build some art, then there will be lesser consequences. If I used my projects and/or art to give to the world, the consequences would be even lesser.

Now, a quick explanation of greater and lesser consequences... greater consequence is bad to the person. Lesser consequence is good for the person. It's actually called Karma, but in dealing with magick it's better to think of it as consequences for your actions.

Magick is real. Just because you haven't had success with it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I have NEVER had success with paganistic magick, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I have had great success using direct magic (simply causing a ripple of change in your favor... the butterfly effect). Even though alot of people think Anton was a kook, he actually had good morals... I mean, c'mon... he wasn't satanist in the biblical meaning... he was humanist. He had very strong beliefs in the use of magick. Basically, do what you please as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else directly (indirect hurt is unavoidable. If you make a right turn you may get in the way of someone who was anticipating getting in that lane. It happens, no matter what.)

My whole thing with majik is that when I was younger I read alot about the whole issues of majok and tried many ceremonies between friends and nothing has ever happened from them that would prove to me that majok exists. I think exorcisms are related to "gods" as people who have the power to do majik, again granted they are real.

I know what you mean, when I was young and started to dabble it's very frustrating.

Now before I say this please understand that I am not some Grand Poobah Magus Dude or anything (though I'll admit I like their robes) but I think a lot of people get confused between ritual and magick.

When you're young and you dabble you tend to not really prepare, mentally or physically. Plus you don't (even if you read the books) now what you're doing.

It's like playing a piano, it takes practice and preparation, lot's and lot's of preparation. Spell memorization, meditation, making sure everything is done at just the right time- depending on the form of magick you are using- and just tons more variables that go into these things.

Then again we could all be nuts.

I don't know which I'd prefer at this point. Nuts would be a nice break from the routine.

I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Spiderj The Glamour Man

Say I want money. I perform some magick, and all of a sudden I come into alot of money. If I blow all of the money on self-gratification, there will be consequences. If I use most of that money to build the projects I want, or to build some art, then there will be lesser consequences. If I used my projects and/or art to give to the world, the consequences would be even lesser.

Dude, if you spent the money on a really good looking stripper working her way through art school you could completely balance out the universe.


Spiderj

In Zen just "dabbiling" is very strictly forbidden, but I really don't think it's a terribly bad thing at all, seeing as the truly powerfull is usually too complex for a beginer to properly conduct

Well what people call "magic" only seems to be magic. What it really is, is a higher science or psychic power that operates according to Universal Law.

If one were to execute something that defied Universal Law; the karmic balance that sustains The Universe would be thrown off and the entire Universe would spin into chaos. Of course this isn't impossible.

To answer the posed question; if you use what I'll call 'special powers'(levitation, control of natures forces, mind control, etc.) for any egotistical reason whatsoever; you'll of course reap what you sow.

Ya feel me?






[Edited on 13-4-2004 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by Spiderj


Dude, if you spent the money on a really good looking stripper working her way through art school you could completely balance out the universe.

Spiderj

Pretty funny you mention that because I was at the strip club on Saturday tipping an art student. ...Seriously....

In Zen just "dabbiling" is very strictly forbidden, but I really don't think it's a terribly bad thing at all, seeing as the truly powerfull is usually too complex for a beginer to properly conduct

Exactly, dabblers dabble and either get serious or fed up. Problem solved.

Well what people call "magic" only seems to be magic. What it really is, is a higher science or psychic power that operates according to Universal Law.

And the truth begins to take form.

Pretty funny you mention that because I was at the strip club on Saturday tipping an art student. ...Seriously

And the universe is balanced yet again

Spiderj

Originally posted by Tamahu
To answer the posed question; if you use what I'll call 'special powers'(levitation, control of natures forces, mind control, etc.) for any egotistical reason whatsoever; you'll of course reap what you sow.

Ya feel me?

Totally, man. It would make perfect sense if one is granted the ability to manifest such powers. Additionally, there are others who may be monitoring the progress of a certain practitioner. If they misuse the talents that were thrust upon them, they may be punished by the same people who had granted them the favor. This, IMHO, is righteous and is crucial for establishing a medium of order. If it's one thing I have observed in this society, is that lots of people like to take advantage of others when they think no one is any wiser.

Now if someone could take me under their wing and teach me such things, I would be quite gracious to them. I ask so that I may continue to provide as positive a contribution as I can on an even greater level.

AlnilamOmega Gives me a great idea!! I'd be happy to take someone and teach them what I have learned and what I know, and I bet lots of others would too. P2P me if you really do wanna know a bit more
~Urban

I'm reminded of a story from "Autobiography of a Yogi":

www.crystalclarity.com...

..."The fakir was not highly developed spiritually," Sri Yukteswar explained. "His mastery of a certain yoga technique gave him access to an astral plane where any desire is immediately materialized. Through the agency of an astral being, Hazrat, the Mohammedan could summon the atoms of any object from etheric energy by an act of powerful will. But such astrally-produced objects are structurally evanescent; they cannot be long retained. Afzal still yearned for worldly wealth which, though more hardly earned, has a more dependable durability."

I laughed. "It too sometimes vanishes most unaccountably!"

"Afzal was not a man of God-realization," Master went on. "Miracles of a permanent and beneficial nature are performed by true saints because they have attuned themselves to the omnipotent Creator. Afzal was merely an ordinary man with an extraordinary power of penetrating a subtle realm not usually entered by mortals until death."

"I understand now, Guruji. The after-world appears to have some charming features."

Master agreed. "I never saw Afzal after that day, but a few years later Babu came to my home to show me a newspaper account of the Mohammedan's public confession. From it I learned the facts I have just told you about Afzal's early initiation from a Hindu guru."

The gist of the latter part of the published document, as recalled by Sri Yukteswar, was as follows: "I, Afzal Khan, am writing these words as an act of penance and as a warning to those who seek the possession of miraculous powers. For years I have been misusing the wondrous abilities imparted to me through the grace of God and my master. I became drunk with egotism, feeling that I was beyond the ordinary laws of morality. My day of reckoning finally arrived.

"Recently I met an old man on a road outside Calcutta. He limped along painfully, carrying a shining object which looked like gold. I addressed him with greed in my heart.

"'I am Afzal Khan, the great fakir. What have you there?'

"'This ball of gold is my sole material wealth; it can be of no interest to a fakir. I implore you, sir, to heal my limp.'

"I touched the ball and walked away without reply. The old man hobbled after me. He soon raised an outcry: 'My gold is gone!'

"As I paid no attention, he suddenly spoke in a stentorian voice that issued oddly from his frail body:

"'Do you not recognize me?'

"I stood speechless, aghast at the belated discovery that this unimpressive old cripple was none other than the great saint who, long, long ago, had initiated me into yoga. He straightened himself; his body instantly became strong and youthful.

"'So!' My guru's glance was fiery. 'I see with my own eyes that you use your powers, not to help suffering humanity, but to prey on it like a common thief! I withdraw your occult gifts; Hazrat is now freed from you. No longer shall you be a terror in Bengal!'

"I called on Hazrat in anguished tones; for the first time, he did not appear to my inner sight. But some dark veil suddenly lifted within me; I saw clearly the blasphemy of my life.

"'My guru, I thank you for coming to banish my long delusion.' I was sobbing at his feet. 'I promise to forsake my worldly ambitions. I will retire to the mountains for lonely meditation on God, hoping to atone for my evil past.'...

Tamahu with an excellent link and great story.

Really liked that story.

SPiderj

Originally posted by Tamahu
Well what people call "magic" only seems to be magic. What it really is, is a higher science or psychic power that operates according to Universal Law.

If one were to execute something that defied Universal Law; the karmic balance that sustains The Universe would be thrown off and the entire Universe would spin into chaos.

Of course this isn't impossible.

To answer the posed question; if you use what I'll call 'special powers'(levitation, control of natures forces, mind control, etc.) for any egotistical reason whatsoever; you'll of course reap what you sow.

Ya feel me?

Magic is only the utilization of forces or abilities that science doesn't currently understand (or necessarily believe). Remember that in the middle ages, you might have been attacked by an angry mob if you showed people a light bulb. Today, people without electricity are considered to be in poverty.
So for all we know, there are so many useful abilities that we have that we don't know about that we can easily control just about everything in our environment without being demonic.

As far as using magic responsibly, of course it should be used that way! But that's what we say about guns and chemical weapons. There'll always be people that use great power for evil. But we must all remember that with great power comes great responsibility!