Obama's Chief of Staff: Make No-Fly List a No-Gun List

"If you are known as maybe a possible terrorist, you cannot buy a handgun in America.. if you're on that no fly list, your access to the right to bear arms is CANCELLED, you're not part of the American Family - you don't deserve that right." Rahm Emanuel

The No-Fly list is an unconstitutional (ha ha) secret database of individuals created without due process to prevent "high risk" individuals from engaging in travel. The ACLU estimates that as many as 1,000,000 people are on the list as of 2008 and have filed a lawsuit due to the fact that many innocent passengers - including infants and children - are being prevented from boarding planes for the infraction of sharing a name with a "potential terrorist". Currently the term high risk seems to constitute political activists and those who criticize the government, among many others - I suggest a search on the issue to uncover the details of this "thought crime" program for yourself.


To highlight a bit more about the individual behind the bill, Rahm Emmanuel - he was a former democratic congressman in Chicago and was a campaign advisor and ally of the ill famed Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich, arrested for corruption in December of 2006. In his 2006 book, The Plan: Big Ideas for America, Emanuel advocated a three-month compulsory universal service program for Americans between the ages of 18 and 25 and is an outspoken proponent of the United States Public Service Academy Act, a lobbying group founded in 2006 in order to promote the foundation of a youth corps whose students would be trained in "civilian internship in the armed forces".

All of this seems to point to a very heavy polarization of the nation in the coming years, with the American youth undergoing a heavy regime of pro-government indoctrination and association with the military, while those who vocally oppose the direction of this country will be left without travel or means or self defense. With the current downward spiral the American economy is engaged in, compulsory enrollment in these youth brigades will not even need be a requirement - a small financial incentive package and college funds will be enough to entice the vast majority of America's youth into these programs. Over the course of the next four years we are going to witness America undergoing some very powerful changes, the question is: what is it becoming?


[edit on 2-2-2009 by illusionincarnate]

reply to post by illusionincarnate


I had a story at one of my open mic spoken word forums about a 7 year old white, blonde haired, blue eyed kid(cute as can be) on this no fly list. He gets his right taken away long before he's even old enough to make the decision to own a gun. Damned democrats and those stupid gun grabbing liberal scum I'm tired of these people, and I'd like to see them gone. Obama will NOT win a second term if this is the way he keeps making policy. This is wrong and backhanded and should NEVER have been allowed to happen, or even be said.

And this is coming from a liberal, yes I am a liberal.(Or could be defined as one in many cases of social issues). However this does not preclude me from the facts, and this is just another liberal policy that is leaving me to wonder why I ever supported their cause.

If you are known as maybe a possible terrorist, you cannot buy a handgun in America.. if you're on that no fly list, your access to the right to bear arms is CANCELLED, you're not part of the American Family - you don't deserve that right." Rahm Emanuel

That Senior Lecturer Constitutional Lawyer that is serving as our President should teach Emanuel what the term INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY means.

I really think people who do things that are violent or possibly illegal or may endanger others is a reason to not give them guns or let them fly...

I wonder what that 7 year old did? I know someone on the no fly list because he crawled on a conveyor at an airport and rode around to the back. He deserved it though, he was stupid for doing that, he knowingly broke a law and if you do that at an airport you get in big trouble.

I don't do anything wrong and I want to be safe, because people are crazy and murder people all the time and it would be sweet if they couldn't get on a plane with me or buy a gun.

I don't understand why so many people have issues with this. It's the safe thing to do.

If you're a suspected terrorist you probably have had your calls monitored and emails monitored and there's a reason why you are considered dangerous, I'm pretty sure.

Maybe they should include suitcases in this, too. Then terrorists can't use suitcase nukes.

[edit on 2/2/2009 by ravenshadow13]

On a side note: It's obvious to me Emanuel is under the influence of some substance here. Probably not a good sign.

On topic: I wonder what the penalty is if you're on the no-fly list and you own a non-registered handgun? Knowing this guy he'd want it to be death.

Peace

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
I really think people who do things that are violent or possibly illegal or may endanger others is a reason to not give them guns or let them fly...

I wonder what that 7 year old did? I know someone on the no fly list because he crawled on a conveyor at an airport and rode around to the back. He deserved it though, he was stupid for doing that, he knowingly broke a law and if you do that at an airport you get in big trouble.

I don't do anything wrong and I want to be safe, because people are crazy and murder people all the time and it would be sweet if they couldn't get on a plane with me or buy a gun.

I don't understand why so many people have issues with this. It's the safe thing to do.

If you're a suspected terrorist you probably have had your calls monitored and emails monitored and there's a reason why you are considered dangerous, I'm pretty sure.

Maybe they should include suitcases in this, too.

Then terrorists can't use suitcase nukes.

[edit on 2/2/2009 by ravenshadow13]

A 7 year old is NOT A FREAKING TERRORIST. And that kid did nothing. It was his first time on a plane or in an airport. It was the family's first vacation.

There are more than 1.5 million NAMES on the list not individuals with a proven criminal history. That is why a 7 year old was flagged as a terrorist. And you know what? It is innocent until proven guilty. Learn the Constitution.

This isn't the safe thing to do. That is the exact opposite. You are criminalizing people based on a name on a list and TAKING AWAY THEIR RIGHTS as defined in the constitution. Jesus Christmas don't American know the freakin' Constitution anymore?

[edit on 2-2-2009 by projectvxn]

reply to post by illusionincarnate


I'm intrigued by his concept of "not being part of the American Family".
I know in practice he just means "those decried by me and the latest right-thinking-people's media cues"...but it makes me wonder if maybe some Americans could opt out of the main social contract, waive some protections and get a different package of rights and obligations...like say you could take narcotics legally as long as you waive your right to free health care...do tell, Rahm...

reply to post by ravenshadow13

If you're a suspected terrorist you probably have had your calls monitored and emails monitored and there's a reason why you are considered dangerous, I'm pretty sure.

Not necessarily. Sometimes it could be a government mistake or just having the same name as somebody. Once on, it would be hard to get off.

“They sent me back a letter saying basically, you’re correct. You are who you say you are,” he said. He already knew that, but it was nice to receive government affirmation that he is a law-abiding citizen — and not the bad Michael Kirby who causes all of his namesakes to appear on terrorist watch lists. Mr. Kirby says he was nevertheless informed by Homeland Security that “you’re still subject to additional screening and clearance when you come to the airport.” In other words, tough luck, you’re still on the list.

www.nytimes.com...

reply to post by projectvxn


I know the constitution. If he didn't do anything (climb on something he shouldn't have in an airport, etc) I'm sure that they could go and appeal as to why he was on the list. I know people get on there because they happen to have the same name as suspected terrorists, and that can be cleared up with a social security number check.

Really, no need to snap at me. If he didn't do anything, he shouldn't be on the list. If he did break a law or do something (like try to open the emergency exit of a plane or something) then whatever.

reply to post by jam321


Needing additional clearance is fine, they would still be allowed to fly, and that's probably to make sure it isn't a case of stolen identity or something.

My grandma gets additional clearance every time she goes to the airport. Like, it's not a big deal, she's not being prohibited from flying.

You are still missing alot of details. The no-fly list is unconstitutional by nature and violates innocent until proven guilty. And once you're on the list you are not removed from it. Ever.

Ravenshadow, dont be naive. This is a crime against our citizens and against the constitution. So your saying its ok to take away arbitrary rights (owning a gun or flying a plane) because someone performs a nonviolent and non malevolent infringement? What next, would it be ok for them to take away our right to bear arms for getting speeding tickets? To deprive us of the right to fly for passing a stop sign, or jay walking? That makes just as much sense as what you are saying. These people are being accused of possibly being terrorists, and treated as guilty even if they have done nothing terroristic. that MASSIVELY violates innocent until proven guilty.

I in no way deserve to have my liberties infringed so that you can feel some small measure of greater security, and if you disagree, then you are pushing a dictatorial agenda, supporting the idea that groups of innocent people should be locked up, or have their rights infringed, even if they have harmed no one or committed no crime, just so you can have some false sense of being safer. Im glad that your perceived safety is more important to you than others freedom.

The act of disallowing people to own firearms because of a "no fly list" is nuts.Supposedly the government cannot restrict the free travel of any american citizen.It is your right to move freely inside this country.They are getting by with this by useing private airlines to enforce an illegal action.
Don't think for one minute that they don't want to take all the guns away from the people.That is the last bastion of freedom left to the citizens of this country.Without the ability to hold firearms they would have already walked all over our dead bodies.

No civilian should be allowed to carry fire arms, under any circumstances..
That includes hunting, shooting animals for sport is a barbaric tradition that
has no place in a civilized world. Humans have proven again and again that
they are not mature enough to carry guns, if military must exist, then at
least ban civilians from owning fire arms, so casualties out of war are not
increased unnecessary.

reply to post by Wehali


I agree you, but it's possible that no one else will.
Unfortunately it's just easy to have guns, it's easy to shoot people, and they make it easy to defend yourself and murder someone innocent at the same time.
So boo.

Originally posted by jam321

If you are known as maybe a possible terrorist, you cannot buy a handgun in America.. if you're on that no fly list, your access to the right to bear arms is CANCELLED, you're not part of the American Family - you don't deserve that right." Rahm Emanuel

That Senior Lecturer Constitutional Lawyer that is serving as our President should teach Emanuel what the term INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY means.

I know your base politics are different than mine but time and time again you cut through the partisian crap and call it like it is. Thanks I guess.

re: the rest of the thread:

I know the stereotype a lot like to banter about with is that most Dems (Dims, Dumbs, etc) are anti gun. This is not the case. Most, myself included, are anti violent crime. I have no idea why or how Rahm could speak so flippantly about a gun policy in regards to the extremely flawed no fly list. Rahm will get into trouble with crap like this.

On the otherhand, he may just be extremely sarcastic and in effect trolling to get a response.

I guess I'd like to see us rise above the partisan bickering and work together to fix the horrific mess we find ourselves in.

Wehali, for many people hunting is not a sport. Its an important and spiritual way of procuring food to feed ones family and ones self. Dont make aspersions as if you know the intent of all those who hunt, and judge them sadistic animal torturers who do it for the sake of pleasure.

Secondly, the right to bear arms exists for a reason, and that reason is to protect the general public from government abuses. When governments get out of line, as governments are wont to do, the people need the ability to enforce their will upon said government. THIS is why we in america have the right to bear arms. Every person has the right, and the RESPONSIBILITY, to be able to defend themselves.

Of course, their are trying to train us out of this thinking, trying to teach us that we should never defend ourselves but rather wait for the police or other legal body to come do it for us....despite the fact we might be raped or murdered by then....or despite the fact it may be the police or military doing it to us. So go ahead, sheep, lay down your defenses and put yourself completely in the mercy and dependence of your government. I reserve the right to protect myself, and accept the responsibility that goes with it.

Karen Tumulty and Micheal Scherer author the article "An Enforcer Named Emanuel" , published in the Februrary 2, 2009 Time Magazine (COMMEMORATIVE ISSUE), and can be found on pages 48 and 50, with a full page portrait of Rahm on page 49.

This work schooled me quickly on the new WH CoS (White House Chief of Staff).

I new his past "accomplishment" as put in this article,

...Honed his political skills as a top aide to Bill Clinton...where he was instrumental in sheparding the North American Free Trade Agreemenrt and welfare reform through Congress.

But an interesting detail I found here that I wasn't aware of is:

"Senator Obama and I don't just share a home state. We also share exotic names that were given to us by our fathers--Barak, which in Swahili means 'blessed,' and Rahm, which, roughly translated from Hebrew, means 'go screw yourself'."

I guess this article schooled me good

reply to post by ravenshadow13


I guess the Liberal side is handing out Crack now.

If you don't have enough to charge someone, you cannot take away their rights. If they have evidence that they are a threat, then by all means, just lock them up and give them thier day in court.
I thought the Mr. Obama was going to undo the unjust things that our last dip stick did? What happened to that theme? I guess if you need education on STD's, need more green things, and not at all worried about having a job, they are on the right track.
Why do so many want to give up rights so easy.

All I would have to do is call and tell them you said you wanted to do something and where planning it with some friends. They would be upsetting your world like you would not believe possible.

Witch Hunt! That's all it is.





[edit on 2-2-2009 by j2000]

[edit on 2-2-2009 by j2000]

Wow, I just get so blown away with how naive some people really are.
Did they all come from a Utopian plant or something.
How could anyone that has any knowledge of the US Govt and the things they will do, trust them so much.
When they get out of control, what are you going to do, give them puppy dog eyes and hug them to death???

Our Govt. already needs a serious back hand at the least.
They commit Treason on a weekly basis. How do you turn outright theft into "just a political view"??
I really wish I could find 999,999 more of like minded people. I would have them march on DC and clean up the scum.

I don't even need a gun, just give us pitch forks and torchs to lead in the night.
Give me liberty or give me death!

I served 6 years and swore to defend the Constitution, and I will damn well do it!!!!