Israel vows "disproportionate" response to rockets

I say NUKE DEM ALL.....doh!

Israel has problems. (no #!) Apparently the bible told them so.

I support ISRAEL .........NO MORE!

What is occuring now is not about freedom, neutrality (ha!) or any other agenda. It is about ZIONISM that is about as healthy as a nazi death camp.

The simple facts are that anyone who supports Israel's is not understanding that Palestinians ( millions of people displaced in their own slate of land) don't actually give a buff about Israel).

And why should they?

Not because they are good, bad or indifferent. They are SIMPLY poor and wondering why they had the living fck! bombed out of them last month.

WAKE UP!

IF U LIVED IN GAZA TODAY........ you are probably an everyday muslim who couldn't care either way......... except you would like your family to LIVE. You like the struggle of everyday existance, you sell veggies, you teach, you drive a cab.

Whatever.

It is sickening that too many people judge WHO, HOW and WHY these people are they way they are.

THEY ARE MILLIONS OF DIRT POOR PEOPLE WHO JUST HAPPENED TO LIVE THERE.

THEY DIDN'T GET ANY CHOICE. IT'S WHERE THEY LIVE.

They are as normal as U? They care about jobs, food and amenities.

They are pissed as a monkey in a brewery when bombs fall and KILL their children

If someone (anyone) just bombed the # outta the city I live in, you would HATE them.

WHO WOULDN'T???
(and I hate to state this fact, but the people with no heart on this issue are ZIONISTS.

And I doubt the average jewish rich kid understands that, but they should.

Why do pro israeli ( or I should be more specific.....pro ZIONISTS) think otherwise?

It goes against humanity.

It's simple.

Man bites dog, dog attacks! What do humans want for free.

Hiding behind BS belief dictates one thing, and I think I've made THAT point.

When Israel acknowledge they were thrown into a place on earth that has always been (at best) controversial ......THE MIDDLE EAST IS A SWAMP OF HATRED, DISTRUST and pure evil.

Any jew on AtS worth the salt of his/her basic belief knows this.

People are generally pro hunan or arses.

Israel could have tried to befriend the neighbor, but they didn't=because they thought they didn't need to.

It is gonna get so ugly and it breaks my heart.

STOP THE HATRED.

Think outta the box. Think love and peace.

Most muslims think the same. Don't judge everything by the size of your car.

If you do you will become a TWAT! and the probs of thw world will become even more confusing!

Death to anyone without an open mind!

But how can an army use proportional response to attacks by militants? I mean - show me one army in the world that does not use its advantage in firepower against paramilitary organizations?
Should Israeli government give away rockets/mortars/small arms to civilians and pay them to fire it on Gaza? Because it is the only proportional response that could be.
Animal:
Your map is misleading. It shows that Palestinian Jews owned 2.5 percent of the land , but it does not show how many Palestinian Arabs owned. Because as you can easily see nobody owned land in deserts but government. And deserts are considerable part of Israel - Negev desert and Judean desert that to this day are scarcely populated.
As to those who say that Israel itself is launching rockets - this is simply lie. Or worse - ignorance.

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge

Animal:
Your map is misleading. It shows that Palestinian Jews owned 2.5 percent of the land , but it does not show how many Palestinian Arabs owned. Because as you can easily see nobody owned land in deserts but government. And deserts are considerable part of Israel - Negev desert and Judean desert that to this day are scarcely populated.

In my time in Israel I saw LOTS of people living in the desert. Seeing as how the entire region is desert that seems logical.

If you think this map is flawed perhaps rather than making fairly general and simplified critiques you could provide somehting to counter what I presented.

Personally I think that the map is quite clear.

The 1917 map shows Palestinian Territory prior to the invention of Israel, that includes both privately held and government held lands. Makes sense, no? Of all that land both privately and government held, only 2% was owned by the Jewish community. Seems pretty straight forward to me mate.

reply to post by serpentine


Well people in Gaza are dirt poor. True. They are desperate - true. Majority of them wants to live as they should - like normal human beings and not to be scared constantly.
Well - they lived like that only few years ago!!!! So don't give me this "they are poor so they are right" thing. Israeli south is also poor. Shderot is one of the cities with highest unemployment in Israel - and it was so even before rockets. So Jewish rich kid is just a label.
Rockets from Gaza messed up Israeli South even more then it was, and it totally ruined Palestinian economy in Gaza. If you would like to pretend that rockets have nothing to do with the situation - then you are blind. Say - why there were no major outcry in West Bank? There were less demonstrations then even in Israel, not mention Europe or Arab countries. Because people there probably hate Israel but they do not want Hamas to get there and make their life a living hell like it is in Gaza. And they are the same Palestinians, lot of them actively attacked Israelis in second intifada. So no need of righteous hypocrisy. People in Shderot and other areas of Israel deserve to live in the same conditions as you. People in Gaza also deserve to live in the same conditions as you. Did you know that there is natural gas field in the sea that Israel gave to Gaza? Did you know that British firm has the right to develop it and pay to Gaza government? Do you know why they did not do it even when prices on gas (not fuel) where much higher?
Because Gaza is fighting a war against Israel! And its leaders don't give rat's ass about its own people, not to mention property of some British firm! So people in Gaza are dirt power because of the way their chosen leaders act. This is their responsibility. Israel that is attacked from Gaza should care for people of Gaza?

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


Israel is richer than Palestine because they have a fixed income of billions from American taxpayers as well as many preferred trade agreements. What have they done to deserve most favored nation status and my tax money?

Total Cost to U.S. Taxpayers to date $134,791,507,200

Is Israel a welfare state? Can the US afford to keep paying Israel during this economic crisis?



[edit on 1-2-2009 by Mynaeris]

Huh?

I thought israel carried out millitary action and its 'Phases' in Gaza to kill off all Hamas and fully put a STOP to rockets and launch pads.

And today i saw on news Hamas pounded israel again.

So who did israel kill and destroy in Gaza?

*Sigh* Same ol bull crap from israel as usual..

[edit on 1-2-2009 by merkava]

Israel army have the technology, Iron Dome, to stop the missiles coming from Hamas, but they don't install it where it needs to be. The Israeli government is guilty of not doing what they are supposed to do, protect their citizens. By bombing Gaza, you only create more terrorism... that and treating palestinians like cattles in a slaughterhouse.

The army and extremists are in power in Israel. This regime need to be taken down, and replaced by a moderate one and not controlled by the army to finally make real peace.

Or you could just disband Israel because it failed it's primary purpose, being a safe-heaven for jews around the world, being in Israel is more dangerous for jews than almost anywhere in the world except Russia. And Israel actions is making the hate towards jews increase worldwide.

So do a 2 states, real peace or disband.

[edit on 1-2-2009 by Vitchilo]

reply to post by Animal


This is exactly what i am saying - there was govenment land. Government was a) Otoman empire b)British empire. How then Palestinian Arabs owned land of both of this empires? There should be 3 cathegories. Not just two. If govenment land was given in partition plan to Palestinian Jews - it is not land of Palestinian Arabs anyway so what is wrong with this?
Because the map constantly speeks of green color as color of Palestinian Arabs only and it is misleading since there were at least three cathegories of owners.
As for a lot of people living in desert - well this is wrong. Of course if you consider the desert proper. There are no more then several hundred thousands living in two deserts. Look it up in google earth, simplest way to see empty barren land with few populated areas. Then it was tens of thousands tops. And it is descent part of Israel. As an example:
In Beer-Sheva district of British province of Palestine lived only several thosuand people in 1948. And Negev desert is huge. (compared to Israel size.)
www.mideastweb.org...

Point taken, and spot on too.

My problem here on ATS is people don't understand the detail of the situation, I wrote such a rant to get replies like yours.

I am am an Aussi living in Thailand. My fear is how the CNN/BBC reporting tends to breed a love hate opionated version of events.

Since I am not living in the region I become frustrated by opinions I see here on ATS, regardless of the side people choose to take.

Regionally it becomes more relevent.

I feel equally for an israeli and anyone who feels "stuck in the middle".

I hate that religion is AGAIN used as an excuse.

I post on ATS because I want everyone to feel for an underdog, regardless of religion.

Because Israelis have an international reputation of been innocent westerners (albeit in the middle east) I feel they cash in on been underdogs.

Ignoring the fact that many other people are underdogs too.

Does tht make sense?

I'm trying to strip BS religion from a reality where innicent people are killed. IDF just proved they are not an underdog.

What concerns me is the stigmatism of the evil muslim from GAZA.

You sound like U understand.

Can u imagine how the average Gaza family is feeling right now?

My assumption is that too many people are victims of stuff that is so fckd up, regardless of the religion.

Whether they be hindu, muslim, jew or scientologist, it makes for messed up BS either way when we see what happened in Gaza!

And I'm sure you can acknowledge that it achieved nothing.........or not?

reply to post by Mynaeris


Budget of Israel in 2009 - 313 billion shekels. Or - 77 billion dollars.
As for US aid - i do not understand what is the source for your numbers. From official pdf file i found the figures are as follows:
from 1949 to 1965 65 million per year, making it 1 billion.
1971 - 2008 2.6 billion per year. 96 billion. It is a lot, but it is 97 billion dollars alltogether. Or am i missing something?
www.fas.org...
By the way - i think that Israel does not need this aid since along with natural benefit it means that US inluence is very serious in Israeli desicion making. And if US government/senate would cut it - 2.6 billion (with larger part being military aid which Israel can use only by buying US-made military production) is 3 percent of annual budget. Cutting it could be done. Now i am thankful for US aid, but this is not necesary.
As for Palestinian economy - it is based on foreign aid. Especially Gaza. Foreign aid (US and others, including Israel) is not 3 percent. It is more then half of budget. Why aren't they richer then Israel?

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


So can Israel please inform my government and other governments supplying them with aid that they no longer need it, also that they want to quit having preferred trade agreements , and no more free military equipment? I know our stimulus package could use the boost.

[edit on 1-2-2009 by Mynaeris]

reply to post by merkava


Actually i totally agree with you. Even more so, i knew from the start that it is not going to stop the rockets. No remote vision or paranormal stuff - simply because Israeli forces already being in Gaza for months in those years of conflict and it did not stop the rockets then. The decision to go now, before elections, on such high intensity operation that was doomed to bring only few positive results along huge collateral damage totally puzzles me. So truce ended, so Hamas leaders are sick murderers ,still why after only weak plus of talks without really giving chance to all the diplomacy options do this? Public pressure for some offensive actions was actually lower then a year ago when rockets attacks were much more intense. So i agree with you - this operation was pointless. Unless Israel gained something i cannot see.

Resouces?

Were they not theirs first? (without getting bibliacal)
Or do we have to go back the old testament?
If we go there everyones rooted in outdated propaganda?
The water supply?
Who owns that?
Is not the biggest problem on earth now about wealthy nations trying to own resources that were not in their control in the first place?

I assume you post on ATS because the BS about who controlls stuff like this intrigues you?
The reality of a globlaiised world is powerful rich people want IT ALL.

A few of them are jewish and arab, and renecked christians.

We worry about who hides behind religion to claim something.

Even in 2009 it is an excuse for crushing peoples no matter who or where they live..

What just happened in Gaza showed this and it is sad no matter what you believe.

Call me an idealist.

PS-I undstand there are jewish settlements in places where that are terrorised by terrorists.

But IDF did not act responsbly. FFS they destroyed the UN supply on the last day, and even on google earth anyone can see how "disruptive" to peace that act was.

It was not possible to destroy this warehouse accidently.

Not even in the 1970's.

It was a ruthless move to hurt to 99% innocent.

reply to post by Mynaeris


This is very good question. I will ask Israel tomorrow when i meet him. I doubt that he is entitled to make such decisions since he is a guy i work with in a pharmacy , and not me nor him can represent state of Israel on diplomatic arena.
As for politicians - there was an attempt to reduce US aid and Israeli prime minister (Netanyahu) gave a speech about it in US congress in the end of 1990s (or senate?), those guys really loved it if applauses are to be trusted. But then economy crisis broke out (bubble of 2000s) and he lost in elections in his own party. The idea was not resurrected since, as far as i know. Maybe if he wins elections now it will be on his agenda - but i doubt it frankly.

reply to post by serpentine


Yes, Israel side is not white and furry, by far. Nor it has horns and wants to kill everyone.
And Palestinian side is not hell-spawn, nor is it innocent victim.
But populations of both Israel and Palestine (Gaza and West Bank) suffer, Palestinians more since their leaders cares about their well being even less then Israeli leaders care for Palestinian well-being.
I understand when natural instinct is to care for underdog - especially since Gaza is definitely awful place to live in. But this is not a simple conflict, religion/race/history/diplomacy/intrigues/crimes/lots of spilled blood are all mixed up and there is no simple way out of it. Only time might heal it but so far it gets worse as the time goes by. So even though desperate suggestion to nuke the area is not acceptable as far as i stand - i can understand the fact that since for so long there is no solution and blood keeps flowing people start to get weird ideas.
Frankly - i do not know what will happen and if there ever will be peace. Even after there will be finally agreement between Israel and Palestinians, with independent Palestinian country and refugees issue solved, i predict that blood will keep flowing and wars will still happen.
Se la vi. In bible it is summoned pretty nice:
A land that devours its inhabitants.

The Bible does show a lot of History repeating itself, the Old Testament is filled with it and predicts the nations that will want to wipe them out which include Iran Syria and Palestine and the Arabs. Sorry to say but it’s a bigger picture or a conspiracy from thousands of years ago and they are all in it together. We could have let WW2 continue, we could have let the Jews be wiped out. But remember because Israel has so much historical evidence that supports the Bible and the meaning of man, why would you support the Arabs or the Palestinians in covering up your own faith and history. It happens all the time with the fundamental Muslims who see old relics and destroy them. Mankind during WW2 needed some answers and every day we gain scriptural evidence of the Bible in form of archaeological findings. You won't hear about it because there is another force at work that denies this. Israel is for the whole world not just the Arabs as a no go infidel zone. Don't you want the truth and religious rights too in that land? Where there is Zionism there is Muhammadism, the two are opposite’s sides and have been for a long while.

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


Can we also have our weapons back? It was all a big mistake making Israel the middle east bully boy!

reply to post by Mynaeris



May as well bury all the dead sea scrolls and the rest of the Jewish evidence that the Arabs deny even further as history. May aswell pretend history never happened and dig a big hole and throw Museum archives in too. They would if they could.

[edit on 1-2-2009 by The time lord]

Hamas just don't want peace do they, killing Israelis is the only thing that those hate filled savages are interested in.

Israel could give them half of its country and they would still be firing rockets at the remaining half, voicing the usual justification of "oh they still owe us $ (insert ridiculous figure) in reparations".

I hope for their sake that the Gazans like pain.

reply to post by Retseh


That is a pretty random statement. I could just repeat the same sentences and fill in israelis in the place of Palestinians and it would be equally true. Palestinians bleed, cry and die just like you do.