Is it time to ditch the bible?

Originally posted by sezsue


Let me just say that when this was written, the pagans and heathens followed a lot of practices connected to what we now call satanism ....basically worshiping the devil, Baal, Horus, etc.

Are you are saying that the actions taken against the non believers were justified due to their faiths which could be considered satanism or heathenish by early Christians? Which basically justifies any genocides based on religion carried out by Christians. For any religion that does not worship the Biblical God is a heathen religion.

Such a belief today would justify the killing of Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs and others based on their religious beliefs. Such actions today would be labeled as terrorism.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
reply to post by Thistled

 

No your wrong .....she just cannot understand why those who have no hope would try and take away the hope of others .....
I find that to be very cruel ...and selfish ....just because people are miserable they have to try and make everyone be as miserable as they are ..
misery loves company ..
It also boils down to jeliousy .my two exes were jelious of the fact that I loved the Lord as much as I did ..they thought they should be my god ...

Well, if you believe Paul then you are out of place. Personally, IMO this is just another example of Paul forming his own authority in the name of Jesus, in a political manner that soothed the kings. But here is what he says. You shouldn't even be talking to me at all as if you can teach or tell me something.

Apparently, it's all your fault I'm here to begin with. And you have to bear children in order to be saved.

Personally, I think this stuff is rubbish and a conspiracy against the teachings of Jesus.

1 Timothy 2

1I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

2For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

7Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

8I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

9In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

10But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.


[edit on 2-2-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by Thistled


As a Christian I realize that in today's society people can look at things in the Bible and see that there are many places that goes against political correctness. I do not admit to understanding everything in the Bible, but I do believe that it was given by God Himself. Yes, I know many will scoff at this statement. Nonetheless, I still believe in it.

Secondly, I believe that the parts in Leviticus were also given by God. Do I believe that God hates the disabled and the sick? Definitely not, in fact the rest of scripture indicates that He has deep love for those who are afflicted and distressed. So how do we come to terms with this seemingly contradiction? The scriptures imply that the reason (and I do not completely understand it) that God issued such requirements was to signify that the Temple was to be a very holy place. True holiness comes from the inward self (the heart and spirit), but often times God used the physical realm to help communicate this. You see this very often in the life of the prophets, God would frequently tell the prophets to act out something personally and physically that was going on with the spiritual state of Israel.

When God originally created Eden, it was a perfect place both physically and spiritually. It is only because of the sin that entered in that the world become corrupted both physically and spiritually. God did not want us to live forever in this ugly and decrepit state so He banished Adam and Eve from the the Tree of Life (everlasting life). But when He did banish them from this everlasting life, He also made a promise that He would send a deliverer who would ultimately defeat the work of Satan in this world. This deliverer ended up being Himself on the cross (the new Tree of Life) when He died in our place so that we can once again be in a state of everlasting life with both physical and spiritual perfection.

I realize I am only giving the abridged version here, as I do not want to preach a sermon. But the whole point is that things were originally supposed to be in a perfect condition. This was God's plan for us from the beginning and still is. He holds this perfect condition as something that is very important. Important enough that He was willing to give Himself on the cross. So ultimately what He does is out of love. This life we now live is only a short point compared to a whole of eternity.

Originally posted by jpm06002
without the bible there is no hope

also it would be nice if you quoted the passages where it says such things since those quotes are essentially your whole argument.

So hope came along when the bible did, eh? And the 1000's of years before that, there was no hope?

Mat 6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, [shall he] not much more [clothe] you,O ye of little faith?
Mat 8:26 And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, o ye of little faith Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.
Mat 14:31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth [his] hand, and caught him, and said unto him, o thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?
Mat 16:8 [Which] when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, o ye of little faith why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?
Luk 12:28 If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more [will he clothe] you, o ye of little faith

Thistled - Picking a specific book of the OT for grounds to eliminate the Bible is weak at best.

I know hundreds of Christians and have yet to meet one that would want to live their lives as outlined in your OP.

All of us, through our life experiences, communities we live in and groups we associate with, can develop a singular vision and become quite discriminatory in our response to others. This can be true even when you are using perceived discrimination to justify your own position.

That said, the Bible as a whole leads the Christians I know (Black, White, Gay, Straight, Rednecks, Liberals, New agers...) to help those in need, feed the hungry, and question their own position in life when they come up against opposition ---- either internal or external.

Lastly, anti-Christians seem to feel Christians as a group feel they are better than others, and some use the Bible's content to justify this belief.

From first hand experience I can tell you Christians are every bit the sinners as non-Christians. Jesus knows this and it is why he befriended prostitutes and tax collectors. He is all-inclusive.

( Was sorry to see you side-step Granma's original comment, she is wise, accepting, and a Christian. )



[edit on 2009/2/2 by Marmota monax]

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Mat 6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, [shall he] not much more [clothe] you,O ye of little faith?
Mat 8:26 And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, o ye of little faith Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.
Mat 14:31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth [his] hand, and caught him, and said unto him, o thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?
Mat 16:8 [Which] when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, o ye of little faith why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?
Luk 12:28 If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more [will he clothe] you, o ye of little faith

All you did was put in a phrase and then copied and pasted the results that contained. You just quoted a bunch of things completely out of context as a result.

Why do you bring such ignorance to me? I'm just going to take the first one and put it in it's proper context.


30Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

31Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

32(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek

for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

What do you know. The verses aren't just for calling people of little faith, nor is it really even talking about faith itself. It's just saying, don't worry, the father knows what you need and it will be given to you.

reply to post by Thistled


In answer to your question... yes.
If we accept that Leviticus, and all of the OT are a reflection of that ancient society, we must accept that the NT is as well. And therefore the words of men. Not any God.

Originally posted by Angus123
reply to post by Thistled

 

In answer to your question... yes.
If we accept that Leviticus, and all of the OT are a reflection of that ancient society, we must accept that the NT is as well. And therefore the words of men. Not any God.

So it has to be the word of God in order for it to be acceptable? I don't think it's the word of God, and I think in many cases it has become a replacement for the true word of God.

But the standards here are a bit out of wack. Are we to ditch any text which isn't the word of god? Just because some people make crazy claims about it being the word of god, all are supposed to accept this premise and accept or reject it all based on such a claim?

Why is everyone stuck on this all or nothing mindset? Are you all so stuck in duality that you can only see 2 extremes? I'm stuck in the middle of 1 side who says - this is the word of god, you must believe it all. And then on the other side I get people, oh is just the world of men, it's mind control, it should be ditched.

Does anybody actually care about understandings, knowledge and wisdom anymore?

reply to post by badmedia


You do not understand faith badmedia ..
Which is really very sad ..

Originally posted by Simplynoone
reply to post by badmedia

 

You do not understand faith badmedia ..
Which is really very sad ..

No, you don't understand the difference between faith and blind faith. I have faith that what I've experienced and know is true. I have faith that the father hasn't given me a serpent when I asked for a fish. I have faith that a peaceful and heavenily society is possible among a people who live as Jesus said to. I have faith that it isn't anywhere near going to church all the time, or living in a church. I have faith that you have to seek the truth. I have faith that it is hidden to anyone who doesn't truly seek.

Above all else, I have faith in knowledge, understanding and wisdom, which are signs of the father.

What I don't have is blind faith. I don't have faith in men. I don't have faith in institutions built by men. I don't have faith in institutions run by men. I don't have faith in religions that tell people to put their faith in such things either. Jesus does not tell us to put our faith into the scribes and such, Paul does.

Your definition of faith is to just believe and to accept it. And you say you do, but you don't. You don't actually believe what Paul says there, because if you did you wouldn't be posting. Just as Jesus says, if you actually believe in something then you will do it.

Paul and the church fulfills the prophecies. Then proceeds to do exactly what is prophesied and kills anyone who doesn't accept the new religion in the name of Christ. And today people associate Jesus as being this religion, this church and the things done in his name. And the result is people completely leaving the teachings of Christ behind, and dismissing it all as a result. This is BY DESIGN. He even warns you of it. He talks about the 2nd shepherd. But you do not listen.

Wake up and smell the truth. Quit making excuses for it. It's not faith, it's turning a blind eye to the fruits. If it was a function of god you would never have to turn a blind eye to it, you would never have to be ashamed of the actions. I am certainly not ashamed of anything Jesus did.

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

iniquity means sin for those who don't know(I had to look it up my first time).






[edit on 2-2-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by Thistled



I couldnt agree more - I think its been used in the most "unholy" way to control the masses.

On your other points - yep, she was probably upset because I made a valid point - I have been known to have a few insights.

Reminds me of the matrix concepts though; only those that want to wake up will.

Dave

Whatever you say badmedia ...not going to argue with you ..
Dont want to derail the thread ..

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Whatever you say badmedia ...not going to argue with you ..
Dont want to derail the thread ..

I thought it was pretty on topic. The thread is about is it time to ditch the bible. The reason people want to ditch the bible isn't because of Jesus, it's because of Paul and the church. It's because of people who just accept it all no questions asked, don't really know what it says but then if the church says something then they all believe it. It's about the hypocrisy that is evident all around.

And I am point out why it happens. It is by design. Tell me. How often do you see people quoting Jesus in these kinds of threads? How often do you see the words of Jesus used in times of war as a means to support? etc.

Blame Paul all you want Badmedia .
I did not mention Paul once in any post ..and yet you have to keep bringing it up ....and you know I dont attend church ..you also know I did not learn the bible from men or the church ..I read it for myself ever since I first heard about the bible ...when I did go to church the few times I did ..I looked up every single thing they said ...and studied it for myself ..I promise you that .
And you also know I was totally against the war and even Bush (I dont believe he is a real christian ) I never did believe he was ...so I was not one of those blind sheep who stood behind him ....
And I for sure have never killed anyone and would not even be able to hurt a fly ..So STOP PUTTING ME IN THAT STEREOTYPE ....if you would be so kind ....

And furthermore I was talking to Thistled not you when he was talking about why his wife cried when he was trying to get her to not believe in the Lord and the bible.
If you have not noticed I am doing my very best to avoid conversations with you ...you and I just clash and it is all negative ..I had you on ignore but I did not like doing that either ....so I took you off .....
I cant ignore you ...but I dont have to argue with you either ..that is something I can do ..


I hope your obsession with your hatred of Paul eventually quiets down at least enough to get through a post without blaming him for all of the wicked done in this world by people ................

Originally posted by daptodave
reply to post by Thistled

 

I couldnt agree more - I think its been used in the most "unholy" way to control the masses.

For the very same reason, i would like to disagree

No need to ditch any religious book, just get rid of the few that claim power or control over people that find meaning, inspiration or answers in those books.

All humankind should be free to read any book, and decide for themselves if it holds any value or truth.

Maybe we should start by breaking down the 'forbidden library' at the Vatican, because they declared themselves to power and deprive us the access to lots of historical information.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Blame Paul all you want Badmedia .
I did not mention Paul once in any post ..and yet you have to keep bringing it up ....and you know I dont attend church ..you also know I did not learn the bible from men or the church ..I read it for myself ever since I first heard about the bible ...when I did go to church the few times I did ..I looked up every single thing they said ...and studied it for myself ..I promise you that .
And you also know I was totally against the war and even Bush (I dont believe he is a real christian ) I never did believe he was ...so I was not one of those blind sheep who stood behind him ....
And I for sure have never killed anyone and would not even be able to hurt a fly ..So STOP PUTTING ME IN THAT STEREOTYPE ....if you would be so kind

I wasn't putting you in that stereotype, so I'm sorry if you took it that way. The point is that people do these things. And that is how people view Christians. That is why they are getting here. But that in itself is just a symptom, there is a cause for it.

If you have not noticed I am doing my very best to avoid conversations with you ...you and I just clash and it is all negative ..I had you on ignore but I did not like doing that either ....so I took you off .....
I cant ignore you ...but I dont have to argue with you either ..that is something I can do ..

I don't think it's negative. Confrontation brings understanding. When people come together in discussion of Jesus(truth), then Jesus(truth) will be among them. Not sure why you are trying to play the victim role, these are forums.

I hope your obsession with your hatred of Paul eventually quiets down at least enough to get through a post without blaming him for all of the wicked done in this world by people ................

So I can't disagree or think someone is wrong without hating them? What I hate is the lie. It's not like I just have some personal thing with Paul.

But, it's pretty much like this. I was taught things, and when I read the words of Jesus, I see him saying what I was taught and shown. And then when I read the words of Paul, I see what I was taught not to do.

Why aren't there any records from ROME about any of the deciples or jesus? There isn't one single record of them existing and you have to wonder if they were such a threat to the empre then the government would have recorded them somewhere.

reply to post by Emipie


I could'nt agree more the more we strive for knowledge in every corner the better the person we may become. All knowledge should not be hidden read everything you can with an open enquiring mind.

Originally posted by johnnyrobbo
reply to post by Emipie

 

I could'nt agree more the more we strive for knowledge in every corner the better the person we may become. All knowledge should not be hidden read everything you can with an open enquiring mind.

7Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

8For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

To open the door you have to open your mind. Not to be confused with just accepting everything and calling it open minded. enquiring(seeking) is definitely needed. Most people are afraid to knock.



[edit on 2-2-2009 by badmedia]