Why would God want man's foreskin ?

Originally posted by TasteTheMagick
reply to post by vonspurter

 

It probably became widespread in America because of all the dogma and rumors that surrounded the practice. People thought that you would live longer if it was done, or that it would keep you from getting sicknesses. People STILL think that and it makes sense that it spread a long time ago because of the same old wives tales.

Well, obviously at one point in our history (American history), doctors were telling parents that is was best to circumcise (health reasons) and that is how it became widespread.

However, now:

The major medical societies in the USA[23], Britain[24], Canada[25], Australia and New Zealand[26] do not recommend routine non-therapeutic infant circumcision. Major medical organizations in the United States and Canada now say that parents should decide what is in their child's best interests, declining to make a recommendation one way or another. The AAP advises that "Physicians counseling families concerning this decision should assist the parents by explaining the potential benefits and risks and by ensuring that they understand that circumcision is an elective procedure."

So, why are all those non-religious people still circumcising their sons? Are doctors not telling parents it isn't necessary anymore? Do doctors not say anything because they can charge for this procedure? (had to throw the conspiracy angle in there). Are women who allow it to happen to their sons doing it because that is what THEY prefer a man have? And what about all those father's (non jews) who allow it?

Honestly, I never thought much about it - because Im a woman and dont have a son. I have brothers and they are (but we are not Jewish). I dont care if a guy is or isnt (not an important factor for me).


These are the stats from the OP's link:

Table 1: International circumcision rates Country Year Neonatal circumcisions (%)
United States 2003 55.9%* [30]
Canada 2003 < 14% [31]
Australia 2004 10%-20% [32]
New Zealand 1995 0-5%** [33]

en.wikipedia.org...

So it is STILL widely done here in America.

[edit on 1/28/2009 by greeneyedleo]

reply to post by vonspurter


I may indeed be wrong, which is why I said "I would guess". It could very well have been Jews who came over that introduced it to N. America. I don't think Jews had a massive impact on the shaping of our continent though (not to my knowledge anyway), I cannot see why their practices should have been so widely adopted. I know that these days circumcision is common among many religious groups, I was born Roman Catholic and I know most of the males in that organization are circumsized, which is what led me to believe it was a custom that was brought here by pilgrims from Europe.

I thought this was a good answer. It isn't very indepth, but who can know the mind of God?

from www.lcms.org

"After making known His covenant to Abraham in Genesis 17:1-8, God told Abraham, "Every male among you shall be circumcised. You shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and you" (17:10b-11). Clearly, this external rite, according to God's command, was a "sign" reminding Israel of His covenant with them according to which He declared Himself to be their God and they His people. God's covenant with Abraham and the patriarchs after him was fulfilled in the coming of Jesus Christ, through whose blood God established a new covenant characterized by the forgiveness of sins. According to Paul in Colossians, circumcision has been superseded by baptism (Col. 2:11-12), the means through which God makes us His children and imparts to us the blessings of salvation. "

reply to post by KOGDOG


no i don't think so, that's another great example of gods love of foreskins though thanks, i'm getting worried that Heaven is going to be a giant foreskin museum or something - know when you go round someone house and they start showing you there dead butterflys or stuffed moles? haha imagine if its god showing you all his foreskins!

reply to post by TasteTheMagick


Well here we have the reason circumcision was was originally practiced in the US.

In cases of masturbation we must, I believe, break the habit by inducing such a condition of the parts as will cause too much local suffering to allow of the practice being continued. For this purpose, if the prepuce is long, we may circumcise the male patient with present and probably with future advantage; the operation, too, should not be performed under chloroform, so that the pain experienced may be associated with the habit we wish to eradicate.

A Short History of Circumcision in North America

reply to post by NatureBoy


I've had discussions about the sensitivity side of it before with others. One guy who was circumcised at a late age swore that it didn't change at all.

I fail to see how this is possible. It only makes sense that if a sensitive part of the body is unprotected, sensitivity will decrease.

A guitar player has sore fingers for the first few months of learning, and then the skin on the fingers becomes desensitized, accustomed to that friction.

I sincerely believe that those who are circumcised do not feel the same sensations the rest of us intact guys do, they cant simply through basic biology and common sense.

IMO, It's BS that it doesn't make any difference, everything says that it simply has to.

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
So why is this?

I have read it was because the states had a lot of Jewish doctors, and they promoted the practice. It seems to be going out of style somewhat in the U.S. Personally I prefer cut and am glad most guys 20+ have had it done.

reply to post by greeneyedleo


Well my guess, about why it continues, is probably because it's become a traditional thing, or it's so widespread that people continue to do it. I remember one of the doctors telling my mom that if she DIDN'T have it done to my brother he might face social issues later because his penis would be different than the other penises.(I wish that was a lie)

This is so barbaric, primitive and sadistic - "They" tried to talk me into doing it to my son - my NO was firm and full of knowing - I don't think the little french Quebec doctor proposed this useless intervention for a long time after me - mayby never by the look on his face. I like penises, I like foreskin, I love my son and I will always discourage anyone from getting an operation that is not of the life/death situation.

reply to post by TasteTheMagick


Actually it's hilarious you posted that about suffering socially. I was never cut (thank you mom and dad!) but I was raised Roman Catholic, church and school, when I was about 10 I recall being at a Church social event and a bunch of the younger boys hanging around and someone mentioned something about circumcision. Me being ignorant about it at the time inquired as to what it was, I was ridiculed to the point where some of the boys told me I should just leave. At the time it was embarassing, now I look back and have to laugh at how nonsensical the whole situation was.

The vessel of procreation. This is a sign that the fathers of any boy born unto them are pledging that they will raise their boys to worship and fear God. This is a sign of allegiance to God. There is no new life without the male, and as written in God's Word, the male as the appointed leader of any future union with a female, shows his willingness to follow God and obey His commandments.

Furthermore, the pagans, and many past societies put much emphasis on worship of the phallic symbol. The act of sex became something that they worshiped in their limited understanding, or in fact, many did understand that God was the Creator, but it was a sign of rebellion against God to not circumcise the males for those who didn't want to live by his rules.

When a man is circumcised, he is reminded of his fathers vow to live as God has commanded, and it is there until death as a reminder.



[edit on 28-1-2009 by TH3ON3]

I was just imagining this discussion between God and Abraham:

Abraham: God you have been so good to us, you kill off all our enemies, You give us their land, you make my 80 year old woman fall pregnant, and now at 99 I will have a child with her. You are most wondrous what is it that we can do to the repay you?

God: I want your foreskins.

Abraham: No problem God. Hey Isaac go call a Mohel - a cut and blow for all the men.

I mean in the first circumcisions did the mohel have to suck all the jews' penises or just the babies? I mean this whole story is pretty bizarre.




[edit on 28-1-2009 by Mynaeris]

The bible can be considered to include items that help people lead a healthy life.

Sanitation way back when these verses were written was not too great.

I'd lump this in with all the things listed in Leviticus as ways to remain healthy, written at a time when far fewer things were understood.


An alternative theory on why god would want your foreskin is that he's making a quilt. ''

reply to post by Mynaeris


And what a holy and wondrous conversation it was!

TH3ON3:
I really REALLY have a hard time believing that pagans didn't believe that god existed. They just didn't believe that god existed in the way that people of the three "major religions" did and so their belief system was demonized. Organized religion as a whole, in my opinion, is ancient propaganda.

Found a link for the 'proof of virginity'

www.thebricktestament.com...

and the time god demanded they cut even more off,

www.thebricktestament.com...

reply to post by Mynaeris


haha - pretty funny.

Of course, it was a one-sided conversation with God telling Abraham how its gonna be.

All the other stuff is our own implementation.

reply to post by Mynaeris


haha now that's an angle i hadn't seen, maybe it started at the very start.

It was a pretty . . . personal . . . delicate . . . vulnerable . . . masculine

EMPHASIS OF DEDICATION TO GOD; BEING SET APART UNTO GOD as part of HIS CHOSEN SERVANTS.

What better part; what more vulnerable expendable part of a body of a man could there be with which to EMPHASIZE SERIOUS, GENUINE DEDICATION OF THE INDIVIDUAL TO GOD?

The details of the operation that grew up around the commandment are not something I'm an expert on.

Considering medicine has known for decades that circumcision has little or no physical benefit, one has to wonder why it's so pervasive in some countries like the U.S.

From a conspiracy angle, who benefits by lots of men, not children of Abraham, getting circumcised? Who would want to sew confusion about who is and is not a child of Abraham and part of a covenant with God?

Of course, just knowing that you aren't a descendant of Abraham might be problematic but if your great-grandfather wasn't circumcised, then maybe you aren't a descendant of Abraham. But let's say you can know or your parents know and they still follow this tradition not of their religion.

Who benefits from the confusion?