The Bible and aliens...

Oh, by the way, Darwin did not come up with the theory of HUMAN evolution, that is someone else's, Darwin merely said that natural selsction is relevant, he said nothing about humans!That theory is wack with NO proof anyway!

Originally posted by jhova
Re-evaluation of the entire way we think. We put too many limitations on things that we don't even know about because of our egos.How can we see the Bible for what it is, when we only care about materialistic gains and goals.We are so far from knowing the truth, we may never know.

Don't mean to "hate" but...that was a complete cop out.

What "truth"? Whose "truth"? We can't understand the Bible for what it is because of our materialistic goals and gains?

But not you though right...you understand it because you've set aside things of the flesh and opened your mind and heart to the "truth" of the bible right?

Originally posted by jhova
Oh, by the way, Darwin did not come up with the theory of HUMAN evolution, that is someone else's, Darwin merely said that natural selsction is relevant, he said nothing about humans!That theory is wack with NO proof anyway!

I don't recall ever saying that he CREATED the theory of evolution.

By the way...there has been human evolution. You might want to carefully ask yourself how mankind has evolved.

[Edited on 4-20-2004 by Preest]

Originally posted by jhova
Only stubborn people need to be proven something to, if they cannot find it in there hearts to realize that the life we are living now, is clouding us from the truth.And when did I say I was going off "blind faith"?Those are your words, not mine.I put two and two together, I don't just try to deny things just because they are differen, but, you probably don't know as much as I do about this stuff, so if you want to run, or keep using juvenile tactics against me, I understand!

How can you say people need something proven, yet then need to "find it in their hearts"? I could say whatever I wish, but without some form of proof, it would still be a fantasy. And if people believe me, what does it say about them? You put two and two together in your mind leading you to the next answer, but who is to say without a doubt your correct?

That is the flaw in your arguement. You wish people to believe (or they should just know) that your conclusion is correct and everyone else is wrong. You are also basing the entire arguement on a book that could be complete fiction. Sure, we know certain people and places existed, but I could should you other books where people and places exist...it still does not make it fact.

You claim to be a subject matter expert so I assume you know there is no absolute proof the bible is fact. If there is no proof, then one has to fall back on faith.

The fact of the matter is that we don�t know what these flying things are. You are applying modern day popular media and folklore to ancient events. The only similarity in Ezekiel says �the center of the fire looked like glowing metal� then the modern human being influenced by modern thoughts sees a UFO and assumes God is an alien. The only thing we really know about UFO�s is that they are unidentified objects. Again modern media has us thinking that they are intergalactic transports, this has not been proved. We don�t have any proof that they are piloted, hollow, metal or from another galaxy.

It�s hard to deny that objects have been seen throughout 1000�s of years of human history according to paintings and cave pictographs, but who�s to say its alien technology and not from god. Don�t dismiss the description of the beings in Ezekiel �All four of them had faces and wings�, �Each of the four had the face of a man, and on the right side each had the face of a lion, and on the left the face of an ox; each also had the face of an eagle.� The bible text is hardly Conclusive proof of the existence of aliens from another galaxy or that god is an alien.

Ezekiel 1:4-10

4 I looked, and I saw a windstorm coming out of the north-an immense cloud with flashing lightning and surrounded by brilliant light. The center of the fire looked like glowing metal, 5 and in the fire was what looked like four living creatures. In appearance their form was that of a man, 6 but each of them had four faces and four wings. 7 Their legs were straight; their feet were like those of a calf and gleamed like burnished bronze. 8 Under their wings on their four sides they had the hands of a man. All four of them had faces and wings, 9 and their wings touched one another. Each one went straight ahead; they did not turn as they moved. 10 Their faces looked like this: Each of the four had the face of a man, and on the right side each had the face of a lion, and on the left the face of an ox; each also had the face of an eagle.


[Edited on 20-4-2004 by kinglizard]

People also need to take into account the very real problem of translation of the Bible versus paraphrasing it. Quite a bit of meaning is stripped from the scriptures by people who don't understand the history or culture of the people that wrote them. Not only is meaning stripped from scripture but that stripped down, paraphrased scripture is then used to prove any point that paticular zealot is looking to prove.

I agree you can take a couple words or a couple sentences out of the body of text and prove or disprove anything, not just out of the bible but any book. The key is to keep it in context and in the spirit of the work. I see this all the time when people attempt to disprove the bible and promote their personal ideas.

Originally posted by kinglizard
I agree you can take a couple words or a couple sentences out of the body of text and prove or disprove anything, not just out of the bible but any book. The key is to keep it in context and in the spirit of the work. I see this all the time when people attempt to disprove the bible and promote their personal ideas.

It goes both ways without a doubt...scripture can be taken out of context to prove and/or disprove anything you like...the real "word" of God has never and will never reside in the Bible and I think that's what people neglect to realize...it resides in the hearts and works of his followers...true followers.

I've met a couple true christians...there's not many...but there is still some real ones out there.

Originally posted by Preest
It goes both ways without a doubt...scripture can be taken out of context to prove and/or disprove anything you like...the real "word" of God has never and will never reside in the Bible and I think that's what people neglect to realize...it resides in the hearts and works of his followers...true followers.

I've met a couple true christians...there's not many...but there is still some real ones out there.

The Bible does not claim that it was sent down from god in its entirety. Instead, it claims to be written by both God and men, and written in a way that perfectly says whatever God wanted it to say. So the bible says what God intended. You shouldn�t pick and choose to believe what you want in the bible; all of it is the word of god.


2 Peter 1:19-21

Prophecy of Scripture

And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

Originally posted by kinglizard

Originally posted by Preest
It goes both ways without a doubt...scripture can be taken out of context to prove and/or disprove anything you like...the real "word" of God has never and will never reside in the Bible and I think that's what people neglect to realize...it resides in the hearts and works of his followers...true followers.

I've met a couple true christians...there's not many...but there is still some real ones out there.

The Bible does not claim that it was sent down from god in its entirety. Instead, it claims to be written by both God and men, and written in a way that perfectly says whatever God wanted it to say. So the bible says what God intended. You shouldn�t pick and choose to believe what you want in the bible; all of it is the word of god.


2 Peter 1:19-21

Prophecy of Scripture

And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

And who are you to say what it is or isn't?There you go thinking God is a man in the clouds with a whit beard again.And who is to say the interpretation of that verse means what you say.It said that God spoke through them, that does not mean it did not happen or they did not witness it.IT will take a lot more than that to convince me other wise.And of course Ezekiel's description is weird because he is trying to describe something he does not understand (just like if someone in a helicopter twenty years ago went to Australia, and some of the Aboriginees might think that person is a god of somesorts).Did anyone look up http//:ufoartwork.com?Anybody!?You are telling me what it isn't, how do you know!?And don't give me some drawn out crap, keep it simple, but please make sense, and don't say because some guy says so or Becasue I just don't like that idea!But I guess you have to believe in et's being here first, before you can believe the latter, huh!?Then why are you even on this site?

jhova,

Please reread my post.

Originally posted by kinglizard
The fact of the matter is that we don�t know what these flying things are. You are applying modern day popular media and folklore to ancient events. The only similarity in Ezekiel says �the center of the fire looked like glowing metal� then the modern human being influenced by modern thoughts sees a UFO and assumes God is an alien. The only thing we really know about UFO�s is that they are unidentified objects. Again modern media has us thinking that they are intergalactic transports, this has not been proved. We don�t have any proof that they are piloted, hollow, metal or from another galaxy.

It�s hard to deny that objects have been seen throughout 1000�s of years of human history according to paintings and cave pictographs, but who�s to say its alien technology and not from god. Don�t dismiss the description of the beings in Ezekiel �All four of them had faces and wings�, �Each of the four had the face of a man, and on the right side each had the face of a lion, and on the left the face of an ox; each also had the face of an eagle.� The bible text is hardly Conclusive proof of the existence of aliens from another galaxy or that god is an alien.

Ezekiel 1:4-10

4 I looked, and I saw a windstorm coming out of the north-an immense cloud with flashing lightning and surrounded by brilliant light. The center of the fire looked like glowing metal, 5 and in the fire was what looked like four living creatures. In appearance their form was that of a man, 6 but each of them had four faces and four wings. 7 Their legs were straight; their feet were like those of a calf and gleamed like burnished bronze. 8 Under their wings on their four sides they had the hands of a man. All four of them had faces and wings, 9 and their wings touched one another. Each one went straight ahead; they did not turn as they moved. 10 Their faces looked like this: Each of the four had the face of a man, and on the right side each had the face of a lion, and on the left the face of an ox; each also had the face of an eagle.


[Edited on 20-4-2004 by kinglizard]

Then why could a NASA engineer recreate the vehicle described by Ezekiel?look it up on Google!Why would he call them creatures, and why do they need to fly in vehicles if they are all doing and powerful, not saying"God"isn't.My analysis is that we do not know who or what God really is because God is a lover and a giver, and in this country we have forgotten how to do both, but we know God right!?I don't think so.Half of the population wants to discredit the Bible for having any real purpose anyway.Answer those questions, and we can go from there!

Originally posted by jhova

Then why could a NASA engineer recreate the vehicle described by Ezekiel.

We don�t know that Ezekiel saw a UFO. He saw �an immense cloud with flashing lightning and surrounded by brilliant light.� Again you are applying modern day popular media and folklore to ancient events.

Originally posted by jhova

Why would he call them creatures, and why do they need to fly in vehicles if they are all doing and powerful, not saying "God� isn�t.

He called them creatures because he saw �in the fire was what looked like four living creatures. In appearance their form was that of a man, but each of them had four faces and four wings.� �Their faces looked like this: Each of the four had the face of a man, and on the right side each had the face of a lion, and on the left the face of an ox; each also had the face of an eagle.�

i myself questioned what i once took as a fact after discovering religion but the way i see is that he could have created aliens after the new testiment and that there is more evidence surporting the existence of alien life then there is saying the bible is right but i still belive the word of the bibel and frankly you would have to be damn right stupid to dismiss the possibiltie of alien life just like and i mean no offence by that statement so please dont be offended

Dude, the word "cloud" does not mean cloud in the literal sense, unless he is talking about the phenomena of ufo's that turn into clouds, cloud is what he may think it is.And if Ezekiel was close enough to talk to them and describe them and what they had on, then he was not just guessing, he was describing what they looked like,AND HE KEPT STRESSING THE FACT THAT THE VEHICLE OR "CLOUD" COULD MOVE IN ALL DIRECTIONS AND HE KEPT SAYING THAT THE SPIRIT OF THE"LIVING CREATURES" WAS INSIDE OF THE WHEEL.WE Need to broaden what we think et's might be like because maybe if God is an "et" what makes him/her/i/they any less omnipotent or important?Abductees have said that some et's have a higher spiritual being, maybe multi-dimensional...Remember, space is infinite and we don't know what is out there!!

[Edited on 20-4-2004 by jhova]

And Preest, I know all about the semi-faulty translation of Hebrew into english, and I know about how when Egypt converted to Christianity, the pharoah at the time hid certain books of the Bible from the public, but ONE of the main reasons I believe what I do is this http//:ufoartwork.com, explain this and the things from before and maybe we can get somewhere. And Preest, I never cop-out (quit using my phrases), I merely said that with "our" (population as a whole with our materialistic wants) will never be able to see what something that is about love and creation, the Bible, really is about because "Our" society as whole have our priorities messed up.And yes I have given up a lot of materialistic wants of this world.I have been studying Buddhism, and would like to start samatha meditation, in the summer.I am ready for the revolution when ever.I am ready to die for this sh1t, because we are NOT living right, and it will SOON come to and end!!

I can�t help but to believe that life can be found elsewhere in the universe. However I don�t believe we will find conclusive evidence for it in the bible. The following text if from my post in another thread, but I will share it with you. I feel so small when I think of it.

__________
When you look at a dark sky, on a clear, moonless night; all the stars in the sky number perhaps 5000 stars at any given time. This is about the number of grains of sand in a small handful of sand. But, the number of stars in the visible universe is greater than the number of all the grains of sand on all the beaches on the face of the planet Earth.
The family of stars in which our Sun belongs is the Milky Way galaxy. The number of stars in our galaxy alone is equal to about the number of grains of sand in two large dump trucks. There are perhaps 100 billion galaxies in our universe.
We are talking about stars (suns); now consider how many planets must be among the planetary bodies. There must be life elsewhere, probability absolutely demands it.
__________


I wonder if God came down to this earth and revealed himself as an Alien, if that would change his words in the bible. Would it make a difference if we knew he was an alien? Or do his words in the bible remain as true as they always were?

On that particular website(http//:ufoartwork.com) pay close attention to the paintings with Jesus in them, and other paintings from the 12th 13th and 14th centuries.But wait, we don't want to talk about all of the "irrelavent evidence" that just links the phenomena as a whole.CHECK OUT THE SITE!!And then holla at ya boy!!

Maybe we need to quit using the term "alien"and use a more appropriate word or meaning altogether.