America once again shows lack of class

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


Are you kidding me? You are the one who should be hung, coward!

reply to post by antonia


Let's be clear, most of those who stayed in New Orleans after the evacuation order, did so because they wanted to loot.

If you remember, the videos before and just after the levies broke, there were mobs looting all of the stores. Every one of them.

So, these "poor people" who did not leave "for some reason". Most of them were crooks. The few who could not leave, most of them took shelter in the Super Dome. There are very few who absolutely had no shelter and no way out.

By the way, remember the bus yards? Full of buses, all under water. What would it have taken to activate the National Guard and run a school bus convoy to Baton Rouge? Nothing but a little planning and forethought. That is the Mayor and the Governors fault and the voters in Louisiana didn't make that mistake again.

reply to post by antonia

It's pretty egotistical to sit from your position and declare such things. Some of them simply could not leave for various reasons.

It is not egotistical. I saw a lot of able bodies looting that were more than capable of getting out. Do you even live in a hurricane area because I do? A lot of people stay for many reasons. And some like you say have no way out. However, I guarantee you the problem wouldn't have been half as bad if those able bodies you saw on tv had left. Furthermore, the state and local government were more than incompetent yet got little blame for it. You can THANK THEM for the national guards you will see at every major disaster from here on out.

reply to post by antonia


sory, double post.

[edit on 21-1-2009 by jam321]

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage



FEMA has always said, that in a natural disaster you're on your own for the first 72 hours. They brief the state governors on this topic, to build infrastructure to give aid for the first 72 hours.

This is clearly the failure of the state government. After 72 hours, the Red Cross, the National Guard, the Coast Guard, and the Navy were all in there.

reply to post by lunarminer


And this excuses the administration for their poor disaster performance how? Their initiative wasn’t much of an initiative, which helped to attribute it as a failure. Even Bush has gotten off his high horse a bit to concede this. It’s kind of hard to deny when even your former or current political buddies think your disaster performance was incredibly inefficient. Bush’s passivity

cost lives, prolonged suffering, and left all Americans justifiably concerned our government is no better prepared to protect its people than it was before 9/11, even if we are.

(Washington Post said it best.)

[edit on 21-1-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


What I hear is people giving credit to the Coast Guard, the Navy, and the National Guard, without realizing where that assistance came from It takes an Executive Order to mobilize these forces. So, you maybe could give a little credit.

I already posted on the timeline about the National Guard, but if they were in there 3 or 4 days after the hurricane then they were called up immediately after the levies broke. Would you have called them up BEFORE the levies broke?

How about before the hurricane hit? Would that be better? Of course then you'd have to put them up in the Super Dome, because there is a hurricane hitting NO.

How about we just keep them mobilized all the time?

I already pointed out that I sat through 3 hurricanes in Louisianna. Do you know what the "governmental response" was? Diddley squat. I didn't even get a Red Cross donut. That is the norm. The Katrina response was the exception. Could it have been "better", yeah, it could have been. The real question is should we expect the government to "help" people who choose to stay behind? This is a serious question. If the government didn't jump at every emergency, people might take better care of themselves.

Well judging by the stars given to post one and post two it looks like the OP was shut down 3:1. I guess most Americans still do believe that we have the freedom of speech and that if a president did a horrible job we shouldn't -Snip- applaud them for it. Duh?

[edit on 22-1-2009 by shug7272]

Mod Edit: Do Not Use Profanity.

[edit on 22-1-2009 by MemoryShock]

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by antonia

 

It's pretty egotistical to sit from your position and declare such things. Some of them simply could not leave for various reasons.

It is not egotistical. I saw a lot of able bodies looting that were more than capable of getting out. Do you even live in a hurricane area because I do? A lot of people stay for many reasons. And some like you say have no way out. However, I guarantee you the problem wouldn't have been half as bad if those able bodies you saw on tv had left. Furthermore, the state and local government were more than incompetent yet got little blame for it. You can THANK THEM for the national guards you will see at every major disaster from here on out.

The point is we take care of our fellow AMERICANS

However, it seems like you are more content making excuses for BUSH'S incompetence. BUSH was the MAN in charge of the whole burrito. Maybe you forget the fact that Bush was off back slapping and having cake during the critical time. Not to mention the fact he appointed an incompetent, inexperienced friend to deal with the safety of our citizens. Its not like the Goddamn Hurricane materialized out of the ether. This particular hurricane and its presence was documented days before hand.

Bush applied the same attitude to Katrina as he did to pre 9/11 intel.

INACTION!!!

????? WHY ?????


$#@$ if anyone knows

If you honestly think this is acceptable, then I suggest you have very little competence when it comes to determining responsibility and/or success/failure.

Originally posted by lunarminer
reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage

 

I already posted on the timeline about the National Guard, but if they were in there 3 or 4 days after the hurricane then they were called up immediately after the levies broke. Would you have called them up BEFORE the levies broke?

before the hurricane hit?

Ya get the guard ready before ---


DAAHHHHHWHHH

Put my seat belt on before roller coster starts???

It was a KNOWN KNOWN ( your honey TM. ) that the storm surge would overwhelm drainage and place to much pressure on the system. The local government was incompetent, but I cannot for the life of me understand the water bucket march yer on.


The real QUESTION is should the police come if your home is being robbed --


Not my problem.

Or maybe you should buy your own JAWS OF LIFE when your half hamburgered in yer car on the highway.

$#$$ em, and sell his meat to TACO BELL..........

The whole world hates Bush. I wish i could have been there to boo them also. I hope the whole world watched and saw that we are a free country and despite the awful decisions of our "leader" we have the guts as free people to boo them and make it known that we do not all support the wars, debts and other crazy opinions that boy bush and the hicks do.

reply to post by The Bald Champion


First I would appreciate it if you didn't use God's name in vain. I am sure you can TRY to make your point without using it.

Second, you can bash Bush till the cows come home. That doesn't remove the fact that the people didn't get prepared, the people did not evacuate, the local and State government took little action to help these people leave and were not prepared to help them in the aftermath. That my friend is what you call failure.

Evacuating a hurricane- Common Sense

Riding out a hurricane- NO COMMON SENSE

Expecting the government to rescue
your butt during or after an hurricane- Just priceless and plain stupid.

At some point people have to start being responsible for the decisions they make. They can't keep on relying on government to be the answer.

The point is we take care of our fellow AMERICANS

There are many veterans and homeless people that beg to differ.

Furthermore, what good is taking care of your fellow Americans today only to abandon them tomorrow. New Orleans is just another disaster waiting to happen.


Appreciate the response.

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by The Bald Champion

 

Evacuating a hurricane- Common Sense

Riding out a hurricane- NO COMMON SENSE

Expecting the government to rescue
your butt during or after an hurricane- Just priceless and plain stupid.

At some point people have to start being responsible for the decisions they make. They can't keep on relying on government to be the answer.

The point is we take care of our fellow AMERICANS

There are many veterans and homeless people that beg to differ.

Furthermore, what good is taking care of your fellow Americans today only to abandon them tomorrow. New Orleans is just another disaster waiting to happen.


Appreciate the response.

WELL WE SHOULD TAKE CARE OF OUR OWN...

Hold - what is your point???

Does this diminish the fact that Bush failed to respond like the leader of the most AWESOME entity in the history of history.

It is not practical to expext that evryone has common sense. We pay for the GOVERNMENT sir - it is there for us.

I will ask you - ARE you going to go purchase your very own JAWS of LIFE if you are mangled and traped in your car on the highway?


Can you afford one???

Why not?

Ya know driving is dangerous.

reply to post by The Bald Champion


You will never be satisfied if you expect everyone - or even a majority to take responsibility.

You will be dead a hundred thousand years before that day comes to pass.

I understand your views will prohibit you from admitting a seizable amount of effect on behalf of BUSH.

I mean I could say why have a PD - MILLITARY or highway system???

YES KAT- was abunch of idiots - some mistaken - local and state incompetence - AND the PRESIDENT. Doesn't change the fact that even myself, not leader of the FREE WORLD would have been better prepared.

We pay for the GOVERNMENT sir - it is there for us.

I will ask you - ARE you going to go purchase your very own JAWS of LIFE if you are mangled and traped in your car on the highway?

Government is there only if they are able to get to you. During a disaster there is no guarantee they will get to you.


Jaws of life- I would expect the local emergency crew will attend to me if possible. I would not expect FEMA to be called in to cut me out. That is why we have local governments.

If I were ever in such an accident, there still exists the possibility that the jaws of life may still not get there in time to save me. The best thing I can do is to drive cautiously in order to lessen the chances of such events occurring.

If somebody is robbing my house, I expect the local police to get involved. I don't expect the FBI< CIA, or secret service to come to my aid.

I just don't believe in allowing the FED to butt in where they don't belong unless the governor requests their assistance. And even then their assistance should be well defined and limited.

As far as Bush, he no doubt screwed up. However, things were already screwed up before it ever fell into Bush hands. Plenty of blame to go around. It is unfortunate many choose to blame one for the mistakes of many. This allows others to escape scrutiny and possibly continue to commit the same mistakes. What is even worse is that N.O. is just waiting for the next disaster and many won't care until it happens again.


Interesting debating with you. Catch you tomorrow.

Originally posted by dooper
jso, just be patient. Those who booed today will taste their own bitterness soon enough.

This nation bought a pig in a poke. We still don't know what we are in for from this completely unknown.

He may be good, and he just may make George Bush look really good by comparison.

I was always taught that the measure of a man is a summation of his actions. Words, style, and promises mean diddly squat. Obama hasn't done one damned thing. Ever. Nothing. Ever. He got elected to the Senate? With Chicago-style politics?

Does that not trouble anyone that other than election, he has never even had a real job?

Today, that was one of the more shameful moments for Americans. But the bulk of Americans today are an embarrassment. Many uneducated in spite of education, many are rude because they lack any polish, and as a group think everything should be done for them.

I think Michael C. Riggs said it best, "A turd, encased in a fine silk sock, at the end of the day, is still a turd."

We shall see.

Excellent post my friend, you sum up pretty much everything that anyone with half a brain can understand. Barrack Hussain Obama did not "run" for president, he was "placed" as president. He's a muslim, born and raised as such. Black people liken him to MLK, which makes me want to hurl. MLK was a great man, with history. Obama is hardly black at all, yet the entire black community are acting like idiots, like they have finally gained their fredom or something. The guys name is not "Tyrone Johnson", it's Barrack Hussain Obama. Puh Leeze!

As far as people booing our ex pres, let me say ONE thing about that. Anyone who did not care for Bush policies, unless you actively got involved with your local politicians, wrote letters, etc, then SHUT THE HELL UP you couch potato jabber mouth. Don't like where America is headed? The get off your butt and do something about it. We had Ron Paul and Nader this year, but you voted in another corrupt paid in full talking head. Next time, change and vote for a candidate that does not get all their money from corporations, or in Obamas case, from foriegn donations via a untrackable web site donation portal.

Good luck Americans, we're all gonna need it these next few years.

jso, I'm curious what you think is more important, although really your OP kinda already says. What is more important? That Americans show class, and by the same virtue, self suppressed hypocrisy in not speaking out, just to put on the politically correct face for the world? Are you not tired of politically correct?

Or was more important that they showed their distaste openly for a change? I mean you're almost asking they do the same as the British did with formed lines- until they lost so many soldiers to the non politically correct ways of fighting that they HAD to change or perish.

And where were you back in 04-06 when all those patriot act and FISA court threads were floating around? If you don't want to believe me, then fine. It is buried in here somewhere. But if I have to drag you kicking and screaming into reality, I will never hesitate to help a friend. In time, I will find it.

Originally posted by Asherah
Ohhh Bush deserved it. Nothing is going to bring my cousin back, who relentlessly fought against being sent to fight in Iraq, and came home in a coffin.

And before anyone gets started on me about my cousin knowing what he was getting into when he joined the military, he didn't join to fight an illegal invasion all based on a lie.

Bush took a crap all over my family's lives. I couldn't jump for joy enough seeing him fly away back to Texas.

Bush lying to this country, is that class?

[edit on 21-1-2009 by Asherah]

Calling it an "Illegal Invasion" is your opinion, and talking about it being "Based On a Lie" simply means that you have no insight whatsoever into the Facts. Actually, most of the Public has no insight into the Facts, and the reason why, is that the CIA, DOD, and so forth, cannot simply publicly come out and display them for everyones comfort and viewing pleasure. This is a harsh and sad fact of National Security, and trust me when I say that it weighs more heavily upon those who must keep it secret, than those who have never heard nor seen such Justifications before.

I am sorry about your Cousin though.

reply to post by lunarminer


I think it's interesting that you think I need to give him more credit. I never said he deserved none, but he certainly deserves to be held accountable for the things he did poorly as well. That's what I'm doing, even Mr. Bush himself has reluctantly admitted his failure to handle Katrina the right way a time or two.

Originally posted by dankanight13

I have to agree with you, I am ashamed of my nation for the first time unlike Michelle Obama.

That shows you how mature Obama supporters are I suppose.

Are you kidding me?

So let me get this straight;
1. You weren't ashamed when it was reveled that Bush knowingly began a pre-emptive war based on false pretense that has killed or wounded some 35000 Americans and perhaps millions of Iraqi civilians.

2. You weren't ashamed when Bush, knowing Katrina was going to be horrible, transformed a calamity into a national disgrace.

3. You weren't ashamed when Bush publicly condoned torture and warrant less wiretapping of American citizens, thus dismantling the legitamacey of the Geneva conventions and America's constitution.

4. You weren't ashamed when it was uncovered that the Bush white house had a hand in the outing of an undercover CIA agent, a crime worthy of the charge of treason by the way.

And only now, after witnessing the booing of a president that an overwhelming percentage of living historians agree is the worst in our country's history, you are "ashamed of my nation for the first time."

The depth of your denial is amazing. The sad thing is, even now you are still not ashamed of the one thing you did worthy of being ashamed, you voted for Bush.