John Titor said "The Next President tries to be the next Lincoln" Is there any doubt Civil War is

reply to post by TheColdDragon

That you would have to ask Pamela. I don't know if that ever turned up, or if it was ever mentioned after the fact.

On the time traveler forum she said it not turning up and being snubbed by the people that claimed to have it eventually left her feeling that it was indeed a hoax.

I don't recall Titor ever mentioning healthcare,

Then why are you answering my question? You apparently don’t have the knowledge to answer them. Several Titor supporters know what I’m talking about, this comes up many times and is never sufficiently explained by them or ignored.

Since you have already made your determination that he is lying, I see no reason to answer your question.

Then I’m going to stop reading your post here, thanks for wasting my time.

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


Really?

It is possible Pamela may not have received an email and I am mis-remembering it.

It is also possible that you are lying and my memory is accurate.

No matter. I clearly recall two of the three people most involved with the Titor thing having stated they had received emails.

I read a lot of the post-Titor comments, months after he'd left the Anomalies forum. Those aren't generally mentioned in the threads detailing his conversations, and I don't believe have been alluded to by anyone I've seen discussing it at ATS.

Edit For Further Clarification: I read most of the comments before I ever read the actual conversations. The dialogues between board members interested me enough to actually look up the conversations elsewhere, which is eventually how I ended up at ATS. There was a lot of emotional conflict about Titor's absence, a bunch of people still asking questions thinking he'd answer them and prove he was a Hoax by responding after he'd left, etc.

This was.... about five years ago. So I apologize if my memory isn't daisy fresh on the subject.

[edit on 22-1-2009 by TheColdDragon]

Originally posted by TheColdDragon

No offense intended by what I'm about to say... but spoken like someone who hasn't done their due dilligence concerning the topic. From what I recall there WERE emails sent, but the people who received them did not want to talk about what was in them. Some even claimed to have trouble remembering what was in them and couldn't find them when they went back later to look. Pamela received one of these.

It was from my understanding that those who recognized that they had received strangely telling emails did not want to discuss them.

No offense but that is not a fact, that is your understanding and from the answering, it seems you did not really in fact understand the question she posed to you but that is not why I am responding to this.

So far, you answer that you vaguely think something different and then...

That you would have to ask Pamela. I don't know if that ever turned up, or if it was ever mentioned after the fact.

= I do not have an answer. Good question but I am posting to point out that I do not have an answer.

Okay, you'll have to refresh my memory. I don't recall Titor ever mentioning healthcare, other than mentioning that doctors made housecalls where he was from.

= Again, I do not have an answer. It seems that you actually know the story better than I do but again, I am posting to tell you that I do not have an answer to that either.

Since you have already made your determination that he is lying, I see no reason to answer your question.

= So since I have done nothing but blow you off so far and am running out of excuses to keep doing it without just admitting that is what I am doing, I will now dismiss you offhandedly.

Others have mentioned "hits". It is fortuitous that any descriptions of the future which may have come true are lauded as coincidental and fore-known by those who pay attention... rather than actual descriptions of what is to come.

Not to say his statements were predictions.... just that it is convenient that the things people would consider to be hits aren't in the eyes of the disbeliever, they are contrivances of a well read mind.

Thusly, the possibility is excluded they can be anything else.

=Blah blah blah, justification for the lack of proof of hits vs. misses because again, I really do not have an answer.

Ok, how am I doing so far in translating for you? Now, why do you ask any of us why we are here posting when this is what you are wasting bandwidth with. Do you have anything to add about the topic?
Do you have anything to say about the topic? Do you have ANY answers for any of the questions posed? So far all I see is a long string of "i dunno but you wont believe me anyway so why bother but I will keep posting that I am not going to bother."
Where is that getting us?

reply to post by TheColdDragon

It is also possible that you are lying and my memory is accurate.

Ask Titorite! He knows I’m telling the truth. We had this discussion months ago in another Titor thread. I even linked to a post made by Pam in the time travel forum where she stated that she believed it to be a hoax now. You’re welcome to go there and find it, simply click on her profile and search her posting history.

Please don’t call me a possible liar even when you were caught in a lie while you were being “know it all”-ish. Do you have no dignity?

damn, never meant to edit this one the first time. sorry mods.

[edit on 22-1-2009 by Luciferdescending]

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


I recall that she had been quite saddened because she felt that maybe Titor had hoaxed her, that I do recall. I don't recall her stating she had never received an email...

Do they even store posts from Five years ago on Anomalies?

You'll note I also stated I could be mis-remembering... but I am quite certain that certain other people involved in the whole thing stated they had received emails. I don't remember names from five years ago, but I do recall having read an entire thread about the emails... one person denied having ever received one after admitting to one of the other parties involved that they had...

Edit For Addition: Okay, I have looked at the Anomalies website. This is so vastly different from the original website I read the posts on, the format is entirely different, and like I expected the only information they have on the site is annotated records of the IRC conversations. There was a huge swath of discussion that just isn't there. Hundreds of posts which proceeded after everything went down. Unless you can find me where all of those posts went, I'm afraid I won't be able to refresh my memory to satisfaction as I am generally dissatisfied with just the IRC logs (They remove context and other people that were involved more directly in correspondence with Titor).



[edit on 22-1-2009 by TheColdDragon]

reply to post by TheColdDragon

Do they even store posts from Five years ago on Anomalies?

No, I seriously doubt it, but these post are still on her history. I just checked them a few months ago. This was her re-stating the history to people who were ridiculing her as part of the hoax. They asked her questions, I asked her some as well, and she was kind enough to answer. One question involved the e-mails and she said that she could not even receive one because she did not own a computer or have an e-mail address at that time.

If you don’t believe me go ahead and make a new thread there asking about this, or ask the kind moderators to help you find this post or to get in touch with her.




[edit on 22-1-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

reply to post by Luciferdescending


With the issues I am aware of with my memory, Mis-attribution is far more likely with me than fabricated memories. Considering the field I am in, that's a good thing.

I admit it is possible that Pamela may not have been one of the people who stated they had received an email...

And I was not overtly declaring bats to be a liar. Consider, the Pamela being referred to might not even be on the web anymore, there could be someone pretending to be her speaking with bats.

Honestly, if I could go back and refer to the threads in question (Which I am certain existed), I'd be able to clarify my own recollection.

All I can say in honesty is that I recall a discussion (an argument really) about some emails received being incredibly strange in their nature... and it was directly in relation to Titor because I read the Anomalies board before ATS.

That being said, bats asked a loaded question by insinuating Titor is a liar (Which instantly demonstrates her stance on the matter), and you have been abundantly clear about your opinion concerning it.

I am just saddened that I actually can't contribute a link to the aforementioned conversation. I found the conversations about what was said and the conversations between Pamela and the other people involved a lot more edifying than the actual IRC logs.

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage



(Responding to ColdDragon’s edit) If you’re claiming you can’t find it what makes you think I can? You start making claims, I correct the false ones and now either I’m lying or I post a source? Yeah right, how about you post a source, oh wait you can’t because I’m telling the truth. Why don’t you do as I suggested above, the community I’m sure will be more than happy to validate my statements and I’m sure the moderators can help. If Pam still has a profile you can contact her yourself.

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


Whether or not Pamela received an email is irrelevant. I was incorrect in stating definitively she received one, considering how long ago I read that conversation it is understandable.

I'd be more interested on if there was a conversation about the emails. Since you brought up emails, I would have assumed you knew that there WAS one.

If you tell me there wasn't, I won't back down on that one. I know there was, it was the reason I read up on Titor.

I doubt Pamela AND the other people involved are all still on Anomalies, as I'd be more interested in a few of the other people who had corresponded with him. Five years isn't good odds for forums.

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage
[Yeah right, how about you post a source, oh wait you can’t because I’m telling the truth.

No, I *CAN'T* Because the source doesn't exist anymore. It is sophistry to claim that because I cannot produce something from five years ago, you are suddenly right.

As for getting caught in a lie, what if you are correct? It means I was incorrect, it doesn't make me a LIAR. It means I stated something that was a false recollection. Mis-attribution happens over time, even I am not immune to the wears of memory.

In answering your question, I may have stated something false unintentionally. However, I *WILL* tell you there was a conversation about emails after Titor left, and it was about emails that had been received not why he had never sent any.

reply to post by TheColdDragon

. It means I stated something that was a false recollection.

Sure....

Actually the e-mail discussion posts still exist (I'm talking about a more recent discussion around 2005 from people who gave him their e-mails), it is just a bitch to find them. I’m honestly telling you that no e-mail was received, perhaps you read a post from someone who was lying, and I’ve never read any post from those involved who claim there were e-mails, just those who were disappointed with none.

Here is the forum the discussion took place on: communities.anomalies.net...

There is a great Titor debunker who keeps track of this stuff and has diligently tried to discover who Titor was. He is a moderator now; he was around when Titor appeared. His name is Darby. He can link you to Pam’s profile, I can’t link it to you because it keeps telling me only a member can view it, and I am no longer a member- you have to log in. If you don’t have an account, sign up. Then you can read her posting history if you’re too shy to contact Darby or her yourself. You can easily find either by placing their names in the search function.




[edit on 22-1-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

Originally posted by TheColdDragon


That being said, bats asked a loaded question by insinuating Titor is a liar (Which instantly demonstrates her stance on the matter), and you have been abundantly clear about your opinion concerning it.

Right, see the difference is that we are calling a liar who lied a liar. You are just throwing the word liar out at people for knowing things you did not. See the difference?

reply to post by Luciferdescending


Both have as yet to be proven.

Furthermore, I called nobody a liar. I alluded to the possibility, because internet people aren't the most trustworthy of individuals in a general sense.

Just because you state it, ad nauseum, does not make it true.

As I stated before, I won't budge on that there were emails. I distinctly remember reading the posts concerning them. Of course, the posts I remember also didn't go into details because some of the members of the old board did not want to discuss them.

However, since my memories are not substantiated by being able to cite accurate sources, I feel the irrelevancy of my last few posts are apparent now that I have had some sleep.

Furthermore, it becomes apparent now that I have had some sleep that neither yourself or the other person responding to the MWT posts actually care about the physics or relevancy of the subject to the topic.

So I will instead return to explaining why the story of Titor is possible with actual science being conducted today... because if it is provably possible, it makes the entire "Hoax" you claim this is more plausible.

In summary, Titor has never definitively been proven a hoax by anyone. The two stances that think they have proven this are people who claim he was just making educated guesses based on information available at the time (Does not disprove the story), or claim their are inconsistencies in his story (Without supplying them specifically), or actually draw assumptions based off of things they have read here on ATS from other posters who have had their perceptions formed by other people rather than the actual information on hand.

It is one reason that the Titor thread was some 150 pages long. As such, you are unlikely to convince anyone of anything using the rhetorical methods you are practicing.

Originally posted by Luciferdescending

Originally posted by TheColdDragon
reply to post by InfaRedMan

 

The creation of a world line does not necessitate the inability to return to your origin. It merely means that a new world line is created.

In fact, if by traveling you are not traveling directly to your own past, it isn't necessary that creating a new world line would necessitate being incapable of returning to your origin.

With each and every trip a new worldline is created at the point of destination. - John Titor's own story says that. It would be fun to change the facts that do not add up but the thread is not titled "What do we need to change about Titor's story to make it bullet proof?"

Is there some reason that creation of ONE new worldline would automatically erase all others? If not, what would prevent a return to another, nearly indistinguishable worldline? And if that's possible, then what prevents the notion of multiple Titors on multiple worldlines from being sent out, then returning to a nearly indistinguishable timeline, with a low "temporal divergence"? "A" Titor would return, not necessarily "THE" Titor that originated on that particular timeline.

Doesn't "divergence" imply something to diverge FROM, as in another worldline?

Still not saying that I do believe or don't, just saying that I have questions. Flame me for 'em at will, I'm fireproof.

nenothtu out

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage
reply to post by TheColdDragon

 

Pamela received one of these.

I’ve actually spoken to Pam and she said she couldn’t even receive an e-mail because she did not have a computer in the 90’s. Apparently you haven’t done your homework. This is kind of, amusing.

Just sort of curious here.. if Pamela didn't have a computer in the 90's, how did she participate on the discussion boards? So many questions...

nenothtu out

Originally posted by Luciferdescending



Sorry I missed this. Do not speak for all skeptics. Some people are simply skeptical of this particular guy and his story. I do not believe a thing that Bob Lazaar says either. That does not mean I am not open to UFOs. I just think Bob Lazaar is a liar. I believe in Bigfoot but I never bought them boys with the frozen rubber suit either. I believe in technology far beyond our understanding but not Hutchinson's anti-gravity BS. Be careful when you speak for skeptics because there are many facets with which to choose to be a skeptic.

Philosophically speaking I am correct and there is no right answer for skeptics or believers. Anything is possible depending what theory you believe in. When I came in here I put skeptics AND believers into general catagories, I brought logic to everyones mumbling. I will not argue with you, I see this story at all different angles and everyone is correct according to what they believe. So there is no winning an arguement. Try as you might I can counter it on both sides.

-Kdial1



[edit on 22-1-2009 by kdial1]

Originally posted by kdial1

Originally posted by Luciferdescending



Sorry I missed this. Do not speak for all skeptics. Some people are simply skeptical of this particular guy and his story. I do not believe a thing that Bob Lazaar says either. That does not mean I am not open to UFOs. I just think Bob Lazaar is a liar. I believe in Bigfoot but I never bought them boys with the frozen rubber suit either. I believe in technology far beyond our understanding but not Hutchinson's anti-gravity BS. Be careful when you speak for skeptics because there are many facets with which to choose to be a skeptic.

Philosophically speaking I am correct and there is no right answer for skeptics or believers. Anything is possible depending what theory you believe in. When I came in here I put skeptics AND believers into general catagories, I brought logic to everyones mumbling. I will not argue with you, I see this story at all different angles and everyone is correct according to what they believe. So there is no winning an arguement. Try as you might I can counter it on both sides.

-Kdial1

The only way to argue this from both sides is to lie as Titor did. Anything is NOT possible. It is not possible that I am sitting here right now flapping my wings. I can tell you that I am, but it would be a lie. Is there any reason anyone would believe I have wings? Are you going to support me on it? We can verify it with x-rays and examinations. We can see if I really have wings and find out the actual truth. Are you still willing to defend my story that I have wings because, as you said, anything is possible and everyone is correct?

This man who calls himself Titor lied; plain and simple. Can I prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt? No. Unfortunately for your logic though, there is a truth to be learned and only one truth. That means that whether it is me or not, someone is wrong. Sorry.

Originally posted by Luciferdescending


The only way to argue this from both sides is to lie as Titor did. Anything is NOT possible. It is not possible that I am sitting here right now flapping my wings. I can tell you that I am, but it would be a lie. Is there any reason anyone would believe I have wings? Are you going to support me on it? We can verify it with x-rays and examinations. We can see if I really have wings and find out the actual truth. Are you still willing to defend my story that I have wings because, as you said, anything is possible and everyone is correct?

This man who calls himself Titor lied; plain and simple. Can I prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt? No. Unfortunately for your logic though, there is a truth to be learned and only one truth. That means that whether it is me or not, someone is wrong. Sorry.

If you do not believe in the Many-worlds theory yes it is NOT possible and I am chatting to a brick wall or simple mind, but if you believe in the many worlds theory there is infinite possibilities and then in one of those worlds you are sitting there flapping wings!!

Thus I am proving right now my point there are 2 types of people on this board. People that believe in the single world line theory and people who believe in the many-worlds theory. Thank you for being a perfect example.

[edit on 22-1-2009 by kdial1]

reply to post by Luciferdescending



Some people that use this whole internet experience prefer to use it for entertainment and enrichment rather than worrying about weather or not a person on the other end of the internet is lying to them.

I'm just saying getting into heated arguments online is like running in a one legged race. It doesn't matter who wins they still are still a leg short.

Whats with the obsession?