The Conspiracy of Organized Religion.. Right in front of your face

Hi, religion digging persons.

If we want to know, where we come from, and where we
are going, see the URL in my answer there:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Blue skies.

reply to post by SantaClaus


3. If it causes war, what good is it?

I can think of only one cause of modern war: humans. The only religion I know that inspires men to kill is Islam and various other cults. Other than that, to generally accuse religion of war mongering is like accusing it of gambling, lust, avarice and other vices that make their home in the heart of men. And are you saying that just because some wars have had religious overtones it somehow invalidates religion itself? What about when it speaks about war in Heaven or in the Old Testament when God orders the Isrealites to make various wars? Are you adjudging God too, the giver and taker of life, when He seemingly ordered His people to war? We should not judge a religion by the people who abuse it but by those who live by it.

reply to post by SantaClaus


4. Jesus, Buddha, Vishnu, Muhammed, etc. are all the same guy!

This statement simply shows a lack of understanding and a laziness of thought. The difference between these characters, if written, could fill volumes. Please explain how you feel they are exactly the “same guy.”

reply to post by SantaClaus


5. There is no God who would subject any soul to an eternity in hell.

Well, in Christianity there is a hell. In fact, Jesus Christ spoke more about hell than anything else. Mature Christians know that God doesn’t condemn people to hell out of spite, hell is a choice we make, to be away from God. If you’re a parent you know that for all the love you have for your child, it is this same love that compels you to respect their decisions even harmful ones. I agree that some have used the fear of hell in unsettling ways, but oh well. Even though we don’t know much about hell, there are Christian accounts of some in hell visiting people on earth with a message like this one:

www.orthodoxinfo.com...

I can’t help but hope that hell is not eternal, like Origen, but I feel that in reality hell is quite different from its medieval notion of eternal burning fire and brimstone. Above all, God is not diminished by having created hell, even if it’s eternal, I know that no one is going to be there unjustly.

People can name all the "horrible things that religion has done" but ignore all the help that these religious institutions provide. What have the athiests done for man besides talk down to all of the people who have a religion?

reply to post by miriam0566


Hello miriam0566:

I just wanted to tell you how much I enjoyed reading your post. I believe everything that you said.

Thank you
Grandma

reply to post by monkcaw


You are not understanding much of what I am saying. You are speaking within the rules of your own belief, which is logical to you. Understandable, I suppose, but it only validates my reasoning.

Calling Islam a cult is purely ignorant and sad. It is no different from your own religion, their books are only less metaphorical and more straightforward, which is why people think they are so different.

As far as war, you basically show what I am trying to say.. People cause war. Put a bunch of people in a room for the same purpose, namely religion, hatred for others with different ideals will eventually form. It is proven in history books, over and over again.

If you deny my understanding of individual belief systems, I'm not going to argue with you. I have read every book associated with the religions I spoke about and it is my opinion that the stories are so closely related that they are simple parallels to each other, nothing more. When people need a superhero, they create one, plain as day. Look at this Obama movement, for example. Smaller scale as far as support, but you get my drift.

The existence of hell negates any existence of a God IMO. No merciful God would allow truth to show itself to a person in the form of neverending pain and suffering. That IS a spiteful God, no doubt. Hell is simply something to frighten you into conformity and fall in line. The logic of people who believe in this astounds me, because it seems so clear in my own soul that no actual evil so vile could exist.

Pull myself away from God? No God doing his job would allow that to happen to me. I feel him every day, and I don't need people to tell me stories about him. If I were the only person alive today and never knew communication with another being, I would still know and speak to him, because he is so apparent that its impossible to ignore. I don't need stories, only a soul.

But again, only my opinion.

reply to post by SantaClaus


If I’m not understanding the points you were trying to make then please show me where I’m going off base. I addressed each of your points, and even asked you to clarify some but for you to shut me down by saying "You are speaking within the rules of your own belief, which is logical to you. Understandable, I suppose, but it only validates my reasoning." doesn’t cut it. Honestly, that's just a cop out.

Anyway, I’ll still answer your counterpoints:

1. Technically, I did not call Islam a cult, but I can see why you thought that from the context of what I wrote. However, a very good argument can be made saying Islam is a cult. That’s probably for a different thread, however.

2. Your point on war was that “only two things start wars, religion and women.” You seemed to indict religion itself because religious people go to war. I think it’s irresponsible to condemn a religion, when its theology is peaceful, just because its adherents go to war. I’m a Christian but I took part in the Iraqi war, does that somehow cast Christianity in a bad light? Furthermore, if only religion and women start wars, would all war cease if we removed religion and women from the world? Of course not, men would still war against each other in fact, atheists have killed more people throughout history with muslims coming in a close second.

3. Jesus, Buddha, Muhammad…etc. If you see parallels in their life please show how that makes them the “same guy” especially, from what is written about them, it’s clear they espoused completely different, opposing and contradicting philosophies. You should have plenty of material on this since you’ve read every book concerning these characters and I have not, so please enlighten us.

4. As far as hell goes I understand your stance is that no merciful God would allow the existence of a hell. But what would a merciful God do with people who choose they don’t want anything to do with Him? Just saying “The existence of hell negates any existence of a God” as if it follows logically is troublesome. If I choose that I don’t want anything to do with God in this life or what comes after, is God not bound by love to respect my free will? Wouldn’t forcing those who hate God to live this life and the next under his thumb constitute an unbearable torment for them, a sort of hell?

How can you say

4. Jesus, Buddha, Vishnu, Muhammed, etc. are all the same guy!

then say that people are not understanding you?