Possible UFO crash in Saudi Arabia - Millions Of Witnesses!!

Originally posted by stewartw2
I did -the same thing turned up in Indonesia an hour later. Fact.

How do you know it was the exact same object? Did you see a license plate?

reply to post by C.H.U.D.


You and Phage and a few others are very conveniently ignoring a major point in my posts and the eye witness acounts. The acounts all mention that these fireballs exploded near the ground, and the witnesses heard them. I pointed out that this type of occurance is RARE. Yet you and Phage all deliberately ignore this point.

If we were simply talking about "fireballs" then the stats that Phage put up would be relevant. However, all of the acounts are the same, blue-green color, visible contrail, exploding near the ground.

The stats that Phage put up show that a "large fireball" is observed about once a month over North America. I checked the stats, maybe you should too. If we were to get 3 within a week that is a 12 fold increase, or in other words an order of magnitude increase. That is a very significant increase but maybe not outside the realm of possibility.

Now take into account that all of the observations are the same color and all of them end with an explosion. We are now talking about several orders of magnitude of increase. That is outside the norm and probably outside the realm of natural chance.

I wonder if Phage has stats on blue-green fireballs that exploded?

reply to post by lunarminer


I just went through the stats that Phage posted and counted the fireballs that had any green at all and that exploded. I counted an average of 4 per month over all of North America. I did't narrow down to blue-green since your eye is most sensitive to green and if any color is visible at all, green will be the most likely to be percieved. I also, didn't filter for those leaving a contrail, although I think that this is a significant detail. So, the average is 4 per month that even come close to matching the description.

So, 3 in a week over a single continent (Europe) is a very significant increase, as I said.

Add in the 4 over S. California and we are up to 9 in a week worldwide.

The trajectory of the object seems to change near the end of the footage. It start out looking like a meteor. Then it seems to try and level off near the end. I could be wrong on this because of the angle of the camera. Does anyone see this too?

Originally posted by lunarminer
reply to post by C.H.U.D.

 

You and Phage and a few others are very conveniently ignoring a major point in my posts and the eye witness acounts. The acounts all mention that these fireballs exploded near the ground, and the witnesses heard them. I pointed out that this type of occurance is RARE. Yet you and Phage all deliberately ignore this point.

No, we are not ignoring the whiteness accounts that say that - we are well aware of the acconts and your point. However, we also know that meteors (man-made or natural) could not be luminous below 20 km altitude (if that!), except in the most extreme cases. You are obviously confusing the relatively minor events of the past few weeks with major events which are very rare. These are a completely different class of events all together!

12. How fast are meteorites traveling when they reach the ground?

Meteoroids enter the earth's atmosphere at very high speeds, ranging from 11 km/sec to 72 km/sec (25,000 mph to 160,000 mph). However, similar to firing a bullet into water, the meteoroid will rapidly decelerate as it penetrates into increasingly denser portions of the atmosphere. This is especially true in the lower layers, since 90 % of the earth's atmospheric mass lies below 12 km (7 miles / 39,000 ft) of height.

At the same time, the meteoroid will also rapidly lose mass due to ablation. In this process, the outer layer of the meteoroid is continuously vaporized and stripped away due to high speed collision with air molecules. Particles from dust size to a few kilograms mass are usually completely consumed in the atmosphere.

Due to atmospheric drag, most meteorites, ranging from a few kilograms up to about 8 tons (7,000 kg), will lose all of their cosmic velocity while still several miles up. At that point, called the retardation point, the meteorite begins to accelerate again, under the influence of the Earth's gravity, at the familiar 9.8 meters per second squared. The meteorite then quickly reaches its terminal velocity of 200 to 400 miles per hour (90 to 180 meters per second). The terminal velocity occurs at the point where the acceleration due to gravity is exactly offset by the deceleration due to atmospheric drag.

Meteoroids of more than about 10 tons (9,000 kg) will retain a portion of their original speed, or cosmic velocity, all the way to the surface. A 10-tonner entering the Earth's atmosphere perpendicular to the surface will retain about 6% of its cosmic velocity on arrival at the surface. For example, if the meteoroid started at 25 miles per second (40 km/s) it would (if it survived its atmospheric passage intact) arrive at the surface still moving at 1.5 miles per second (2.4 km/s), packing (after considerable mass loss due to ablation) some 13 gigajoules of kinetic energy.

On the very large end of the scale, a meteoroid of 1000 tons (9 x 10^5 kg) would retain about 70% of its cosmic velocity, and bodies of over 100,000 tons or so will cut through the atmosphere as if it were not even there. Luckily, such events are extraordinarily rare.

All this speed in atmospheric flight puts great pressure on the body of a meteoroid. Larger meteoroids, particularly the stone variety, tend to break up between 7 and 17 miles (11 to 27 km) above the surface due to the forces induced by atmospheric drag, and perhaps also due to thermal stress. A meteoroid which disintegrates tends to immediately lose the balance of its cosmic velocity because of the lessened momentum of the remaining fragments. The fragments then fall on ballistic paths, arcing steeply toward the earth. The fragments will strike the earth in a roughly elliptical pattern (called a distribution, or dispersion ellipse) a few miles long, with the major axis of the ellipse being oriented in the same direction as the original track of the meteoroid. The larger fragments, because of their greater momentum, tend to impact further down the ellipse than the smaller ones. These types of falls account for the "showers of stones" that have been occasionally recorded in history. Additionally, if one meteorite is found in a particular area, the chances are favorable for there being others as well.

Source: AMS


It should be noted that "Meteoroids of more than about 10 tons" (and above), are extremely rare. These are perhaps 1 in 100 year occurrences, at the lower end of this size range.

Somewhat larger meteoroids—those as large as some tens of metres across—that reach the ground as meteorites melt at their surfaces while their interiors remain unheated. Even objects this large are effectively stopped by the atmosphere at altitudes of 5–25 km, although they generally separate into fragments. Following this atmospheric braking, they begin to cool, their luminosity fades, and they fall to Earth at low velocities—100–200 metres per second (225–450 miles per hour). This “dark flight” may last several minutes, in contrast to the few seconds of visible flight as a meteor. By the time a meteoroid hits the ground, it has lost so much heat that the meteorite can be touched immediately with the bare hand.

Source: britannica.com

even slow meteoroids enter the atmosphere something like 700 miles per ten seconds. But I'm basically talking about football size meteorites that, have begun their free fall segment during the dark flight stage. By the time they have reached an altitude of about 20 miles above the earth, they would have slowed down to a speed that would be considered free fall. They would have a terminal velocity comparable to what Joe Kittenger experienced during his free fall from his 20 mile jump from a balloon.

If the meteorite was quite a big larger, it would travel even lower into the atmosphere before reaching a terminal velocity minus all it's cosmic velocity. It's been estimated that about a 10 ton meteorite would have something about 2000 mph velocity just before hitting the ground, thus with a small percentage of it's cosmic velocity intact.

Source: meteorobs

It's common for people to *think* that they saw a meteor close to the ground - but this is only an illusion!

If a whiteness sees a meteor close to the horizon, it does not mean that the meteor is close to the ground. The exact opposite is much more likely to be the case:


Here is a page that has examples of a large fireball event recorded by many cameras, separated by hundreds of miles. It's the same fireball, but in some of the footage captured the fireball appears to be close to the ground (low on the horizon), and in others it's high up in the sky!

[edit on 22-1-2009 by C.H.U.D.]

Continued from previous post...

As for the booms that people heard, these are produced when the meteoroid penetrates into the lower/thicker layers of atmosphere. The height at which this occurs is still quite high up (something like 20-40km). As stated many times in this thread, small-medium sized meteoroids that cause this type of event, are quickly slowed down due to the density of the atmosphere at lower altitudes, to the point where they fall at free fall speed (below the speed of sound - ie no more booms).

Saying that because witnesses heard booms, the meteoroid must be close to the ground, is totally wrong. If you check the reports, you'll find that there is usually a delay of 1-2 minutes between seeing a meteor and hearing the boom/booms. The sound has to travel many km down to the observer!

Originally posted by lunarminer
If we were simply talking about "fireballs" then the stats that Phage put up would be relevant. However, all of the acounts are the same, blue-green color, visible contrail, exploding near the ground.

The stats that Phage put up show that a "large fireball" is observed about once a month over North America. I checked the stats, maybe you should too. If we were to get 3 within a week that is a 12 fold increase, or in other words an order of magnitude increase. That is a very significant increase but maybe not outside the realm of possibility.

Now take into account that all of the observations are the same color and all of them end with an explosion. We are now talking about several orders of magnitude of increase. That is outside the norm and probably outside the realm of natural chance.

I wonder if Phage has stats on blue-green fireballs that exploded?

The statistics that Phage posted speak for themselves. The fact that you can't interpret them properly, is an issue that only you can sort out yourself, so I'm not going to argue about it with you any more. If you want independent verification of what I've said, then email Robert Lunsford of The American Meteor Society.

You may have seen thousands of meteors, but you have allot to learn about the science. Seeing meteors, and knowing how they work are not the same thing.



[edit on 22-1-2009 by C.H.U.D.]

Originally posted by SJE98
The trajectory of the object seems to change near the end of the footage. It start out looking like a meteor. Then it seems to try and level off near the end. I could be wrong on this because of the angle of the camera. Does anyone see this too?

No, I didn't notice anything like you mention. However, camera lenses can cause distortions, and this may make something straight appear to be curved. It depends on the lens.


Once again, I'd like to remind everyone, that no footage of the event in question has surfaced!

The video posted at the start of this thread is of an event that occurred over Australia in 2006



[edit on 22-1-2009 by C.H.U.D.]

Is the earth nearing a space junk field ?
There is reports all over the net about large meteors. Tonight standing outside I seen two large meteors just pass over me and flame out. They weren’t that large but a little bigger than a normal falling star you would see. yet , both burned blue and green. like copper heating up to 1100 degrees, then flamed out.

strange about all these reports I have been reading about.

reply to post by archongod


I love these types of threads keep it comin.

reply to post by C.H.U.D.


This video has put out by Saudi official media to decieve the population-people in Saudi know metoers, yet they are saying that this was not one-nor was it hurlting to earth it passed overhead.

Originally posted by stewartw2
This video has put out by Saudi official media to decieve the population-people in Saudi know metoers, yet they are saying that this was not one-nor was it hurlting to earth it passed overhead.

As C.H.U.D stated three posts up...

Once again, I'd like to remind everyone, that no footage of the event in question has surfaced!

The video posted at the start of this thread is of an event that occurred over Australia in 2006

Australians live in Australia... not Saudis

Originally posted by SJE98
Is the earth nearing a space junk field ?

No. Well not as far as we know! Although we have huge amounts of junk orbiting us all the time, and yes , some of it does re-enter and cause a fireball from time to time.

I know its hard, but try to keep in mind that the internet/modern tech./cameras/CCTV has exploded in the lats few years, and for the first time in recoded history we are getting to hear (and see) things that we as a species have never been able to se the full extent of in the past!

Before, we just had whiteness reports (if we were lucky from experienced observers), but now CCTV is everywhere and everyone has a camera of one sort or another, so we are finally able to see what we have been missing whilst our "eyes were closed"

This is nothing unusual, but what is unusual is that these events are being picked up by the main stream media, which was never the case in the past, even with major events like the one in Canada in November. The only reason these events are being picked up is because footage is available... without footage a news report about an event like this is just 'dead', and not worth showing!

I have been observing meteors, and following fireball reports that most of you out there have never heard about, well before I joined ATS, for a decade now, and from time to time we get small 'episodes' like this when we go through "certain parts of space" (it's not quite that simple - read back over my posts for some info on this), and that is just normal.

No one person could ever have an idea of just how many large meteoroids enter our atmosphere before now since we never had networks like we have now - not just the internet, but amateurs and professional scientists getting together and creating their own independent networks for observing and monitoring meteor/fireball activity.

The International Meteor Organization and the American Meteor Society are two such independent organizations which collate data, and there are many more 'fireball monitoring camera networks spread out across the globe now. There are also hundreds of observers (including myself) who go out and monitor the sky for hours on end, even in winter when it's freezing cold, watching for meteors and recording what we see, either with note pad and pen, or camera

Thanks to them, and new technology, we are beginning to get 'the full' picture of just how often these events really occur, and it's surprisingly often - remember, it's been estimated that 400 tonnes of rock rain down on us every day, and that might well be an under estimate.

Sure, this spate of fireballs has unnerved a few (human nature I guess), but those of us who have been around and doing this for a while know that this is just the way things are... we live in a 'cosmic shooting gallery'!

Originally posted by SJE98
There is reports all over the net about large meteors. Tonight standing outside I seen two large meteors just pass over me and flame out. They weren’t that large but a little bigger than a normal falling star you would see. yet , both burned blue and green. like copper heating up to 1100 degrees, then flamed out.

Spend some more time out doors looking up. You will see many more, with patience, and if you look at the right times. Check the Space Exploration forum here for updates on all the major showers

Yeah that's right...

KEEP LOOKING UP

Because if your real lucky you might get a souvenir like this one in Australia
27 Mar 2008



Or this one in Brazil
24 Mar 2008



Size comparison..



So...

DUCK AND COVER....




,,,


[edit on 23-1-2009 by zorgon]

reply to post by zorgon


And it you're really, really lucky you might find one like this:


[edit on 1/23/2009 by Phage]

You KNOW what it REALLY is right?

Its a test of that new weapon

NATURAL METEOROIDS AS WEAPONS
www.rand.org...

reply to post by zorgon


Well if it is, they're going to have to go back to the drawing board, because they're way off target! (whatever that was/is!?)

Anyway, that document is theorizing. We've theorized that we can one day harness the total output of our sun at source, by surrounding it with something, but that doesn't mean we'll be capable of doing it any time soon.

Also, from the document itself:

For nations that already have nuclear arsenals, asteroid weapons
might be of only academic interest. Depending on the relative difficulty
of acquiring a nuclear arsenal or equivalent weapons of mass
destruction, the idea might be of more practical interest to other nations.
The decision process and motivations that might lead some
nation to acquire such weapons were discussed in Chapter Six.

I admit, it's a possibility... but looking like a less than likely one than the explanations we have so far wouldn't you agree zorgon?

Another big one over Sweden just now (27th Jan)

Click play icon on left
spaceweather.com...

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

Originally posted by C.H.U.D.
I admit, it's a possibility...

There you go



Funny thing though... Wernher von Braun said we will 'manufacture' 4 'enemies in order to bilk taxpayers out of billions... willingly and arm space.
1) Russians... Been there done that... started the space race and ICBM's
2) Terrorists... yesterday's news... DEW weaopons tested, new satelite capabilities with UAV support
3) Asteroids... We will need really big guns to stop those
4) Alien Invasion.. We will need Space Fleets for those

Seems maybe we hit Phase 3?



...

[edit on 26-1-2009 by zorgon]

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by C.H.U.D.
I admit, it's a possibility...

There you go

There's not a shred of evidence to support that possibility, despite hard evidence that previous meteors have come from somewhere in the region of the asteroid belt.

Originally posted by zorgon
3) Asteroids... We will need really big guns to stop those
4) Alien Invasion.. We will need Space Fleets for those

1 and 2 were not predictions.

3 is about as predictable as an earthquake occurring in the state of California.

4, well, I'll believe it when I see it...

As a matter of fact, they WERE predictions considering how old this info is;

The pioneer rocket scientist laying on his death bed confided in Dr. Carol Rosin his fears about the weaponization of space. He identified the scare tactics that would convince the public to accept that space-based weapons need to be built. He made this prediction in the early 70's what these artificial threats would consist of:

Early 70s?

1. Russians / Communists
2. Terrorists
3. Third-world Country "Crazies" / Axis of Evil / Nations of Concern
4. Asteroids
5. Aliens (extraterrestrials)

source

[edit on 27/1/09 by Majorion]