WORLD: Why Should I Care About the Israeli-Hamas Conflict?

Originally posted by The_Modulus
As I have clearly stated in three previous posts within this thread, the actions of the Israeli state demonstrate a failure to resort to peaceful means of problem-solving. As a global community we have learned from past experience that violence and death can never lead to lasting peace as it always sows hatred and fundaentalism.

This conflict is important because it symbolises the failure of a 'civilised' and advanced nation with educated and learned leaders to learn from these facts.

You posit that the situation pales in comparrison to other humanitarian crises around the globe, and on this point I completely agree with you. Myanmar, Darfur, recently Kenya, the Congo, Zimbabwe, all of these crises involve far greater human suffering that what we are seeing in Gaza.

But my point is that this is not why the issue is newsworthy, it is worthy of our interest because it symbolises the failure, to a large extent, of modern nations, unlike other crises, in which we are seeing the predictable results of disorganised and corrupt governments in extremely factional, impoverished and uneducated third-world nations.

That's not a policy though. I don't know if I agree with you that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict symbolizes anything, but even if it did, I don't, personally, find a conflict important because because it symbolizes something. That's fine if you do, but what an issue symbolizes is of very low importance in my book. Not none, but very little.

The way I rate an issue, in order of importance is:

-what is happening the scale of what is happening compared to similar events

-what will likely happen as a result

-where is it happening

-what could potentially happen, and taking into account how likely it is to happen on a scale that ranges from not unlikely to possible but extremely unlikely.

The Israeli-Palentinian just isn't big enough for me to get all that concerned. Like I said in my origional post, I do care, but not much.

reply to post by ClintK


Thank you for your reply.

You mentioned Pakistan; but India has nuclear weapons too, so the two opposing sides both have them.

I'm sorry if my post was already regurgitated in previous post on this thread, I didn't bother reading every single thread.

The Israel - Palestinian conflict is a big deal because it is a religious conflict. In the eyes of the Jew, Christian, and Muslim this is a war of religions though some wont admit it. Since these religions share a common holy land and Jerusalem being the center of that, it will naturally cause religious people to get very passionate and unfortunately choose sides. This little strip of land has been fought over for thousands of years. I doubt this conflict will end anytime soon.

So to sum it up the secular person will fail to see what the big deal is. But for the Muslim, Christian, and Jew it will always be a huge issue and worth fighting for. Hints why we have the current conflict.

I really don't care about any conflict in the world. Of course, at one stage I did care about the innocents stuff, but it's concern wasted if I can't help out in one way or another.

The reason people find the never ending conflict so heart wrenching is that it is so much a David and Goliath fight. The Palestinians lived in harmony with the Christian and Jewish Palestinians prior to the arrival of the European Jews and had been promised, in written form, that the same would continue with the new comers, but it did not and they were thrown out of their homes and 90% of their land was taken from them. Now they live as the Jews did in Europe prior to their being sent to the extermination camps, only Hitler's SS did not try to bomb and burn them to extermination, they were in fact kinder to the majority and killed them more humanely. Some people just do not learn and it seems that the Zionists have no conscience of their own. Even some 700 plus Jews of Israel have been arrested for demonstrating the injustices occurring in their name over the last few weeks.

I am sorry for you that you lack so much empathy.

The Northern Ireland troubles are a poor equivocation given that they started over 300 years ago when the Dutch King William of Orange invaded their land in the name of Great Britain. The average Joe in Europe probably never got to hear of it, and even if they had Ireland would have seemed a very far off place inhabited by people he knew nothing about. Times have changed rather a lot since then for most of us.

As regards the African wars, we rarely have enough knowledge on which to base our feelings, but African leaders have not, in general, proven themselves to be anything more than corrupt dictators and if their people rise up continually in order to be rid of them, then I for one am supportive of their efforts. Other wars there seem to be very clandestine with inklings of western backed "revolutionaries" working in resource rich areas such as Nigeria and the Congo...

So to sum it up the secular person will fail to see what the big deal is. But for the Muslim, Christian, and Jew it will always be a huge issue and worth fighting for. Hints why we have the current conflict.

Not really imo. The real reason is because the illuminati (bankers/rothschilds) want to draw the world's attention to that area so that all jewish people will be put into harm's way and then they can kill them off quickly like they tried to do in WWII but failed.

First they need to have people pretend to be representatives of all jewish people and control the media to make you think all jews are followers of the political movement known as "zionism".
Second make them all live in a dangerous spot as a way to contain them.
Third have them fight to the death in a war.

The whole point of the occultist illuminati is to make two sides fight each other and create as much hate as possible by dividing people on their differences (whether it be race, religion, class, politics) and arming both sides of every conflict to create fear. (including world war II - you are all dupes fighting for one of the two sides to increase the hate in the world)

It is similar to the sith lord/senator palpatine in the prequel trilogy starwars movies who used the trade federation droids to fight the republic clone soldiers, (building both sides up in secret) which would then result in the formation of the evil empire. Thesis vs Antithesis = synthesis.

The plan of the evil empire builder: Create the bad guy and good guy. Have them almost kill each other in a war which they can't afford to keep paying for, leading to false peace (dictatorship with a rule who uses fear based method to contorl). After bringing peace, loan them your money to rebuild the country which has just been devastated by the wars which you created, while at the same time taking control of their leaders; or just being the advisors to the leaders so you can enslave the country's people with things like the federal reserve. Keep both countries in debt forever by wasting the money on services that no one will use, so that the banks can suck the wealth from the slave instead of have the slave pay off the debt. Gradually take the rights from the tax paying public by making them seem dangerous and potential enemies out to harm innocent people. Change the religion of that country to worship an evil god by replacing all the good ones that act as an obstacle.

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To anyone who reads this post and disagrees with it, don't bother to respond to me as I won't have time to read. Reason is because I only want to contribute to this forum by reading the particular posts of the posters I am replying to only, not try to convert the whole community to my thinking or get into an argument with a third party - in other words if you disagree, please don't try to push your agenda on me because I have made up my mind already and can't be convinced to your POV - which although sounds a little hostile (being a lurker here, not a regular) isn't anything personal, so take a pill, calmy scroll past and relax. I just value my time and also not destroy your belief in whatever it is you think is the truth for now

My thinking is "Nobody knows absolutely everything" so don't even try to pretend you are some kind of god and/or the singular holder of truth. That's just not how things work. Nobody has to prove anything to anyone. But it's your responsibility to get off your lazy butt and do your own damn research and draw your own conclusions on topics based on what you (and your debating opponent) can agree are verifiable facts, while filtering out noise and info which you can't confirm to be true, just like everyone else has to in school, ...and then things will go fine between you and me. Assume nothing is true until you can personally verify it. We were put in this prison/detention called earth because you/me aren't perfect and fit to live with god. Use the time wisely to know why.

[edit on 19-1-2009 by Snake Plisskin]

I was going to put this in the original thread but had forgotten.
Anyway:
www.youtube.com...

This is a nice video for those who keep calling it a religious war.
Bankers want you to blame the good religions to make you eventually follow a materialistic lifestyle, watch their news, read their newspapers, absorb their viewpoints etc not live a spiritual life.

To all the people who actually want a religious war: please stop killing for materialstic reasons, and start focusing on spiritually fighting the evil in yourself. It's misinterpretation of relgion that allows the bad guys (manipulating people to fight against each other and get rich on the deaths) to get what they want. People, it's not religion itself, (since zionism is a political movement) it's those who twist or pervert or misinterpret the religion on purpose or through their own error that draws the world into this war.

Until people can fix the bad interpretation, you will be force fed the stuff by the mainstream media until you can help people like this guy educate others. (raise awareness in schools, talk with your neighbours etc so they can think outside what they hear on the news or read in papers or from leaders who are forced to buckle under political pressure to say what the zionists want them to say)

I totally agree with you. I find the whole situation UTTERLY STUPID (although quite instructive in a perverse way). It is idiotic that they're fighting at all considering that they have so much in common. This Semite-on-Semite violence (with the Persian, Farsi-speaking Iranians in the fray as well) is as absurd as it is annoying. And you know what? These my-God-is better-than-your-God shenanigans have always been around, but now the stakes are much higher because of the destructive power of modern weapons. ALL Y'ALL SHOULD JUST TAKE YOUR STUPID CONFLICT TO THE MOON. If such a thing were possible, I would propose that we send the entire Middle East + Pakistan & Iran(with the USA and the UK leading the way) into exile off the Earth until they stop their insanity.

Back to reality. The reason why we should all care (though not be obsessed) about this particular conflict is that it represents the ongoing epic struggle between Christianity and Islam, a fight to the death that has been going on since Islam's inception. One could argue that the "discovery" of the New World was a direct consequence of this struggle, with Portugal and Spain spending massively on both fighting off the invading Moors and acquiring the seafaring knowledge that would allow them to sail west in search of resources. They succeeded at both endeavors (practically at the same time, in 1492), thus setting the stage for the modern era. The conquest of Mexico brought enormous wealth to Spain, money which was used to prop up the Holy Roman Empire and continue the fight against the Moors. Dozens of new crops and foods (including corn and chocolate) as well as herbal remedies (even herbal contraceptives!) improved living standards enormously. Once revitalized, Spain went on to conquer Peru and the Philippines. The rest of the European powers (and their offshoots) gradually started carving up the New World (and the rest of the Old one), building up enormous wealth up to the present day.

The situation now stands as follows:

The most powerful nation on Earth (the USA) happens to be (at least nominally) Christian.

Since the beginning of the 20th century, the USA has needed vast amounts of oil to feed its war machine in order to hold on to its terrestrial and extraterrestrial empire (Yes, much lunar and Martian real estate is now in uncle Sam's clammy hands.)

Most of the world's oil happens to lie under Muslim lands.

This fight is to the death. I just wish they would take it somewhere else in the solar sytem.

reply to post by ClintK


why should we care? its all a diversion from what is really going on.

MUKADAY is
Second7Rising7Sun.bebo.com...

Well, this, at least, answered some questions about why some other people think it's important.

Sorry I've been gone. I haven't had time to catch up on responses. I'm suddenly and unexpectedly extremely busy.

Originally posted by Nineteen


I am sorry for you that you lack so much empathy.

Who said I lack empathy? I have plenty of empathy for the victims of war. ALL wars. The more victims, the more empathy.

reply to post by ClintK


You should care because it's a religious conflict that the United States and other nations have taken a side in. Religion by it's very nature is emotionally inflammatory and extremely polarizing, many are incapable of thinking clearly when they view their circumstances through the lens of their religion. Many wars have their roots in religious belief and many have died and continue to die for religion.
This is a battle over a strip of land that many across the world consider THEIR holy land, believing that they and their religious brethren have a right to this land regardless of who already has their roots their. The country of Israel did not exist until the UN created it after WWII, Arabs and Jews both have roots their, but it was Palestine long before Israel existed. Many Palestinians have been displaced by illegal Jewish settlements, and have been put in a choke-hold by Israel, restricting their travel and making it difficult for humanitarian aid and necessities to enter Palestine. Armed conflict is a last resort and I do not condone attacks on civilians, however, Palestinians have pretty much been written off by the UN, and no one seems to be seriously taking Israel to task for their violations of international law. Back an animal into a corner and you should not be surprised when they attack you.
Much of the distaste and anger directed at the United States by Muslims derives from what is viewed as a large bias towards Israel, which is true. We take Israel's side in almost everything they do, despite the fact that what Israel does is often against international law (Jewish settlements in Palestine, the recent Gaza incursion, etc). If Israel starts war with Iran or their is some other large-scale conflict in the region, we will inevitably be drawn into it. That's why you should care.

Originally posted by dooper
Those that are raising hell about the "innocent"lives being expended in Gaza and totally ignore true genocide and persecution elsewhere in the world, they simply hate Jews, and thus, they hate Israel.

Very well said.

Originally posted by ClintK
and a few of you managed to insult me. Way to go.

and you've managed to insult others. way to go.

Originally posted by lightchild
Western countries have caused these problems in the first place.

They've been fighting there long before any Western countries showed up in the area and they'll be fighting long after the Western countries fall into chaos.

If real peace were to happen then Hamas would be out of business. They want to get their 'aid' shipments and their 'donations'. Unless they continue to play the victim, those sources of income will dry up for them. They have to have war in order to keep their power.



There have been wars and fights and scrums in that part of the world - all in the name of God and/or for power - for all of recorded history. I say - let them duke it out once and for all without any interference from the rest of the planet. The one left standing is the winner.

Then the world can move on and forget about that freak'n tiny spit of land.

Originally posted by DeMitsuko

I like to call these people "closet anti-semites".

It's not likely you'll find someone with the integrity and backbone to speak the truth hiding in a closet. British MP George Galloway was barred from entering Canada to give a peace talk on the Isreali/Palestine conflict, largely due to the influence of the Canadian Jewish Defense League. It's a clear indication of who controls the quislings in power, and the consequence of opposing a state that routinely contravenes and violates International Law.

Freedom of speech? Not when it exposes those who have something to hide... and those who hide the most.

Your reference to a 'Semite' evidences what little comprehension of the term you actually have. If you had done your homework you'd know the racial description can refer to a number of ancient peoples, including Asians and Arabs.

The fact is, Palestinians have more claim to being Semitic than most within modern Jewry who trace their lineage back to the ancient Asiatic kingdom of the Khazars. (Ashkenazi Jews)

"The word anti-Semitism is another word which should be eliminated from the English language. "Anti-Semitism" serves only one purpose today. It is used as a smear word. When so-called or self-styled Jews feel that anyone opposes any of their objectives they discredit their victims by applying the word anti-Semite or anti-Semitic through all the channels they have at their command and under their control.

I can speak with great authority on that subject. Because so-called or self-styled Jews were unable to disprove my public statements in 1946 with regard to the situation in Palestine, they spent millions of dollars to smear me as an anti-Semite hoping thereby to discredit me in the eyes of the public who were very much interested in what I had to say. Until 1946 I was a little saint to all so-called or self-styled Jews. When I disagreed with them publicly on the Zionist intentions in Palestine I became suddenly Anti-Semite No. 1." - Jewish businessman and writer Benjamin H. Freedman. (Facts Are Facts, 1954)

Originally posted by Sara1
People replying the way they are furthur proves what the OP is trying to get across. The point isn't that this conflict isn't important, but that it's not any more important than any other that goes on.

But why focus on just one?

That's how I feel. It's a terrible thing going on in the middle east but it isn't the only terrible thing going on around the world, as we speak.

You are correct in that it isn't the only terrible thing going on around the world. What you and many others fail to realize is that all things are connected and form a common directive.

"Everything is a circle, it's just so hard to see." - Captain Beyond from the self-titled album

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by ClintK
and a few of you managed to insult me. Way to go.

and you've managed to insult others. way to go.

This thread has been dead for a half a year and you decide to comment?

Well, to respond, who did I insult? How was it an insult? Did I call somebody a name? Did I accuse someone of being evil?

It seems I'm the one who is being insulted by those who disagree. If I did insult someone I'm sorry, but you'll first need to point out just where that insult occurred.

[edit on 1-2-2010 by ClintK]

reply to post by ClintK


OOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHH how convinient to judge from the outside !!!!!!!!!!!!! I am an estranged father with a daughter and son being raised in Israel by my ex wife. Whilst I may go down a bitter road the fact is they have an amazing mother. WHY SHOULD YOU CARE ? For the same reason you expect me (and the rest of ats) to care about your life, the truth is .........we don't............we all pretend to be clever and forget the posts that don't suit us. As we ignore child prostitution in south america (no caps on purpose guys) and sit there in our comfy homes hoping little >>>>>>>>>>>fill in name