Other UFO Sightings in the Bible?

Are there other possible UFO sightings in the Bible besides Ezekiel�s? This question would be easy to answer if UFOs were described in those days like we describe them today. But in the time of Ezekiel, the vocabulary used to describe any type of phenomena, including flying objects, was limited, low-tech and religiously oriented, thus very unclear to modern readers.

Fowler notes that just a jew short decades ago, African Bantu tribesmen described an airplane as a �giant bird with the roar of thousands of lions.� If we didn�t know what the Bantus were referring to, would the picture of an airplane immediately come to mind? Perhaps, but not likely.

Ezekiel�s account of what had happened at the Chebar River was not only similar to the Bantu�s in subjective interpretation, but also included a religious framework, reducing its objectivity even more. One way to overcome the lack of modern objectivity is to ascertain and list the telltale signs of a UFO or EBE and apply these signs to a possible sighting.

Such a list would include, for example, 1) devices used for flight, 2) beings or angels, often humanoid in appearance, but with special non-human qualities and 3) beings in the sky observing humans below.

I. Devices used for flight.

Flying and other aerial phenomena were often associated in biblical times with divinity. If a human was seen flying trough the air, witnesses would assume that God was powering his flight. Likewise, if a non-human who likely describe it as an angel or some other divine entity.

I am not saying that no one has ever flown with divine help. What I am saying is that, with or without divine help, physical alien beings and devices, both subject to the laws of physics, were probably involved in many of the unusual aerial phenomena reported in the Bible. As matter of fact, every case of human and angelic flight mentioned in the Bible has included some type of device to aid the flights. A logical question, of course, is why devices were needed at all, if they were divine in origin.

Let�s review some of those devices, which include whirlwinds, clouds and chariots.
Whirlwinds are sometimes mentioned in the bible as aerial transport vehicles.
An Example is 2 Kings 2:1:
And it came to pass, when the lord would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.

But was it literally a whirlwind that picked Elijah up? Was it really one of those strong rotating winds that we know to be so uncontrollable and deadly? I think not. why would God or anyone transport Elijah in such a dangerous manner? It�s much more likely that the writer used the term whirlwind here as the closest visual approximation of a whirlwind.

Chapter 23, verse 19 reads:
Behold a whirlwind of the Lord is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked.

This was clearly some type of airborne object, as it was in Elijah�s case, but one with different behavior. In the writer�s view, it was intentionally sent by the Lord for a definite purpose---destruction. And since its target was Sodom and Gomorrah, which was destroyed by �fire and brimstone� and not real whirlwind, the whirlwind in this case could conceivably have been the author�s term for what we would call an explosive missile.

Habakkuk 13:3 tells of what appears to be a normal whirlwind:
Therefore they shall be as the morning cloud and as the early dew that passeth away, as the chaff that is driven with the whirlwind out of the floor.

So even though the term whirlwind has been used in various literal and non-literal ways, one of its basic qualities remain invariable- it always involves a flying object. And, when used in a non-natural sense, the flying object always transport either passengers or destruction towards some destination. Could we compare Elijah�s whirlwind to a modern-day UFO? Quite possibly, but it�s difficult to say wheter the writer is using the word whirlwind for its visual or functional similarities to Elijah�s vehicle.

If only functionally motivated, Elijah�s term could be virtually any type of UFO, since they all fly and transport passengers. If visually motivated, a whirlwind could refer to the lower cylindrical part of a whirlwind that often touches the ground and lifts any objects in its path, in this sense, Elijah�s whirlwind could have been either a separate cylindrically shaped UFO or a vertical energy beam or tube of some sort that lifted him up to a waiting ship.

The latter scenario seems to be indicated at times in conjunction with another air transport device-a chariot. There�s very little doubt that the term chariot indicates a flying passenger vehicle of some kind.

We se in 2 Kings 2:11, an instance where Elijah is picked up and flown away by a whirlwind in the presence of a chariot of fire:
And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

First of all, the writer is apparently making the presence of the whirlwind secondary in importance to and therefore contingent on the presence of the chariot. Second, Elijah wasn�t put into the whirlwind by someone else and he certainly didn�t climb into it. He was lifted by the whirlwind. Thus the whirlwind in this case seems to be an airborne device that lifts Ezekiel into hovering object that has just opened up to receive him.

(Incidentally, if this did involve a UFO, it would have been a CE-4, right?) Some verses, including 2 Kings 2:1 seem to depict the whirlwind as a separate air vehicle that lifts an then flies away with the passenger. The common denominator in both passenger scenarios is that the whirlwind is an aerial transport device of some type.

Recall that in the fourth verse of Ezekiel�s vision a whirlwind is briefly mentioned as along with yet another airborne object-a cloud, just prior to Ezekiel�s description of the object that landed. Blumrich interpreted the cloud as the result of the landing craft�s downdraw during its descent, which may well be true. But it�s not the only possibility. The cloud could also have been another flight device or air ship.

Let�s examine this possibility a little closer.
The Bible frequently mentioned clouds as flight devices. Of course, not every mentioned of a cloud refers to one. When it does, he circumstances usually make it fairly clear. The immediate question on everyone�s mind, naturally, is how could someone fly aboard something so unsubstantial as a cloud? Once again, bear in mind the limited vocabulary of people in biblical times. Recall that they describes with words that reflected their own knowledge and experiences up to that point. And understand that the closest things to those objects that they had ever beheld had been clouds, which is how they described them.

The nextquestion that surfaces is, if the objects are not really clouds, then what are they? Imagine, for a moment, how clouds look. They have almost every imaginable form, right? Let�s take a quick look at some of those forms:

1) Flat like disks(stratus clouds)
2) Clouds groups, which include circular ones (cumulus, cirrocumulus and stratocumulus clouds).
3) Flat underside with arched top (altostratus and cirrostratus clouds).
4) Flat underside with raised top that forms a triangular shape (nimbostratus clouds).
5) Vertically formed and often pillar shaped (cumulonimbus clouds).
6) Oblong, cylindrical and cigar-shaped (cirrus clouds).

Do these various cloud shapes ring any bells? Do disks, spheres, cigars, triangles and cylinders remind you of the shapes of another objects? You bet they do!
Many UFOs have the same forms. Is it just a coincidence then that many of the clouds that have transported men and angels trough the air in the Bible have had shapes like these? Let�s glance at a biblical example. Exodus 13:21-2 tells of a flying object that resembles a pillar of a cloud and pillar of fire:

And the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night: He took not away the pillar of the cloud by day, nor the pillar of fire by night, from before the people.

First of all, who is the Lord in these verses? It�s clear that Lord referred to by Moses is whatever being or force that occupied and presumably controls the flying pillar. Why is Moses assuming that the object�s occupant is divine? Is it because Moses was no different from other ancient people who often assumed that the flight of an unusual being or object indicated a divine presence? Regarding the pillar itself, it�s fairly obvious that the pillar of a cloud and the pillar of fire are the same object. By day, it had the gray or silver color of many clouds and UFOs. By night it emitted a light, like many UFOs. People in those days, of course, had no concept of artificial light and thus had no word for it. For that reason, Moses might have used the closest word that he knew to the type of light that he saw: fire.

Another possibility is that the color of the object really did resemble fire. Recall the many modern-era sightings that describe the color of some UFOs as fiery, particularly the color of foo fighters.


II. Beings or angels, humanoid in appearance but with non-human qualities.

In virtually all areas of the Bible where angels or other divine beings are mentioned, they are described as very humanoid, but sometimes with qualities that differentiate them from normal humans. In Genesis 18:1-3, Abraham sees beings that are clearly non-human, but that appear so human that he calls them men at various times:

And the Lord appeared unto him in the planes of Mamre: and he sat in the door in the heat of the day. And he lift up his eyes an looked, and lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself towards the ground, and said, My Lord, if I have found favor in the sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant�

These beings are obviously not humans, because Abraham connects them to the Lord whom he sees immediately prior to their appearance. But how does he know that he has just seen the Lord? How does he know how the Lord looks? In all likelihood, he saw an entity of some sort with visible characteristics that he interpreted as divine. What are some of these characteristics? Well, two immediately come to mind. First, the power of flight. Second, the emission of a bright light. Recall verse 28 of Ezekiel�s vision where he ascribes divinity to a bright light. There�s a distinct possibility that Abraham sees both in this case. A UFO that emits light lands near Abraham and three humanoid beings emerge from it. Why else would Abraham have just seen three non-human beings appear before him whom he also consider divine?

The 19th chapter of Genesis presents a second possibility. This case involves two beings whom Lot alternately refers to as angels and men. He invites them into his house where they eat and sleep like other humans. Question: would real angels need to eat and sleep? Obviosly, what evere they were, they were made of flesh and blood. In the 10th an 11th verses, the visitors protect Lot by blinding the attackers:

But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut the door. And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great so that they wearied themselves to find the door.

Did the visitors blind the attackers with some sort of laser device? Whatever they used, it was something that ceartanly beyond the technology of that era.
According to the story, these visitors warned Lot that Sodom and Gomorrah would be destroyed by what seemed like an atomic explosion. Consider verses 24, 25 and 28:

Then the Lord rained upn Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven. And he overthrew those cities, and all the pain and all the inhabitants of cities, and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of pain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace.

Is the fire that rained upon Sodom and Gomorrah a missile or bomb? Isn�t the total devastation described by the author reminiscent of Hiroshima and
Nagasaki? Doesn�t the smoke of this explosion remind you of the mushroom cloud created by an atomic bomb?

So we see two flesh-and-blood humanoid beings whom Lot consider angels. They look human, but posess non-human abilities (device that blinds). They�ve come to warn Lot of the impending destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah by what appears to be an atomic explosion. In my view, a reasonable assumption is that these were alien beings sent by others like them to warn Lot of the destruction of a city that had become very depraved and perverse.

The inevitable question is why extraterrestrials would want to destroy a corrupted earthly city. If my assumption is correct, the answer would most likely be connected to alien intervention in our genetic development.
Perhaps their intervention included safeguarding their genetic handiwork. That is, ensuring that no undesirable genetic strains or mutations occurred. It it is clear that many residents of Sodom and Gomorrah practiced acts that were considered deviant, most notably homosexuality. But could they have become genetically polluted by homosexual acts? Of course not. But some researchers suspect that they went beyond homosexuality. Way beyond. I�ve read translations of ancient documents that reports sexual acts as deviant as bestiality in some places, including Sodom and Gomorrah. If those reports are correct, genetic pollution could indeed have occurred, because mankind was said to be at a phase in the genetic intervention process when humans and lower species of animals could produce offspring together. Those same documents allege that many of the old myths and pictures that show human-animal hybrid creatures were therefore to be taken literally.

At this point, let me make it clear that this information is more speculative than confirmed. I�m just mentioning it as a possible motivation for the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.


III. Beings in the sky observing humans below.

If these biblical reports are really about UFOs, they would be consistent with our present fact about UFO activity, but much has changed since then regarding our
relationship with extraterrestrials, especially in relation to direct contact with them. This contact has gradually diminished, and understandably so, given the long span of time since the era of alien genetic intervention. (Modern Man is a result of alien genetic intervention that occurred millennia ago?) For now, suffice it to say that if intervention is still occurring, it no longer involves the whole of mankind as it once did, but possibly isolated cases (such as the alleged experiences reported by some UFO abductees). In other words, after the aliens had finished the main part of their genetic work with us, their chief concern switched from the close and constant contact of large-scale intervention to more distant contact involving mostly checks on the progress of their handiwork.

These alien checks on our progress appear to be the aspect of their relationship with us that has changed the least trough the centuries and millennia. As we read earlier, EBEs, in their guardian roles, are still observing and checking on us. From a human perspective, the main difference between ancient times and today is that, when we sight a UFO overhead now, we�ll wonder what it is and why it�s there. In ancient times, as we examined in the section on mythology, many groups were well aware of and comfortable with the constant hovering presence of alien vessels. Does the Bible have anything to say about such observers? It sure seems to. Lets take a look at some of King Nebuchadnezzar�s second dream in Daniel 4:13:

I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and behold a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven.

Who is this watcher? It seems to be an entity in the sky whose function it is to observe. Note how the verse differentiates between the watcher and the divine being. It would thus seem that the divine being is an entity whose presence is special, while the watcher is one whose presence is more of a common occurrence. What kind of an entity can hover in the skies for so long that it becomes commonplace? Were the watchers UFOs?
So, have our discussions on the telltale signs of UFOs and EBEs made us any more certain of whether or not the Bible verses we�ve read really involve extraterrestrials? For some of us, perhaps, and for others, perhaps not, depending on how open-minded you and how you interpret and apply these and other telltale signs. As for my own opinion, the extraterrestrial explanation sounds much more plausible than many that I�ve heard thus far. Most other interpretations tend to produce more questions than answers.


Would UFOs contradict the bible?

What if the beings and devices in those Bible verses are conclusively proven to be EBEs and UFOs? Would they then be viewed as a contradiction to biblical teachings and principles? I say they wouldn�t. I say the reality of UFOs is just as compatible with the bible as it is with the holy scriptures of several other religions and belief systems. Many Old Testament readers will insist that if UFOs and EBEs ever existed they must have been demonic in origin, because extraterrestrials are not mentioned by name there. With all due respect for such opinions, it seems a bit unreasonable to say that something that is not mentioned in the Bible has to be Evil. According to logic, I could say that ferrets are satanic beasts, right?

Then there are those who ask what role God could have possibly given to extraterrestrials if they exist. a good question, and fairly easy to answer. At least as easy as the question of what role God gave to Africans, or Asians, or Europeans, or any other ethic group or culture indigenous to the Earth. Why can�t EBEs have the same basic God-given roles vis-�-vis the human race as our various earthly groups have vis-�-vis another? It�s generally assumed that when God wants to intervene among humans, He rarely does so directly, but rather indirectly, trough material beings like us. Why not also through EBEs? Why can�t EBEs also have divine missions and callings in life? Isn�t it possible that EBEs have been used by God to bring civilization to the primitive beings that used to be our ancestors before they inexplicably became modern almost over night? Couldn�t God have allowed them to intervene genetically, in order to give us the mental capacity to take that step up towards civilization, and then to train us? We can draw somewhat of an analogy between this and the situation in which Europeans came to the new world and conquered the native Americans there. Subsequently, the conquerors thought them the ways of civilization and their missionaries brought them modern religion, which many religious people still claim was God�s will. After all, they say, if the Europeans had not intervened, the natives would have never become civilized and thus would have never known about the real God. Thus, according to many people, God used the conquerors to carry out His will. Couldn�t this reasoning be applied to role of extraterrestrials? Couldn�t they also be considered as civilizers and missionaries?

If the human race survives long enough it will one day launch manned missions to other planets and solar systems, just as our extraterrestrial neighbors did. While colonizing other worlds, which are inevitable, what would we do if we encountered primitive species of humanoids? Species similar to our ancestors before we became modern. Correct! We�d do the same things that we�d do on Earth with uncivilized native tribes. We�d civilize them. And if we thought it necessary, we�d intervene genetically (we�re already intervening genetically with plants and lower animal species, right?). Wouldn�t we consider it divinely justified to help species on other worlds in this manner? Is the idea of EBEs doing the same with us really any different?

By J.E.G

Well, what do you guys think?

I think it is incredibly interesting.

I have not read it all yet, only th efirst bit, I will print it off and read it all later.

BUt, you really should give us links to where you got this stuff from.

Unless it is your own work, if so then you should be really chuffed, thats a great essay!

If you have cut and pasted this and it was my work I would be a bit pissed off as it could lok as though you are claiming it for your own.

None the less, thanks for sharing this. I do hope it is yours as I would like to have someone with such ideas and skilled writing here

I got it from a book by James Edward Gilmer Very interesting book as many other books! I thought I would share something from that book (Other UFOs in the Bible?) with you guys.

[Edited on 10-4-2004 by Cardu]

[Edited on 21-4-2004 by Cardu]

I think many should read that essay you wrote!I applaud you on the things that I truly believe also!

[Edited on 23-4-2004 by Cardu]

I know Jhova is going to flame for this, as he flames me for everything I say...

It was a good essay, I still havent finished it but later tonight I'll try to get on. As a christain and a UFO believer I've done a lot of research as to UFO's mentioned in the bible and I really don't think it mentions anything about them. I used scripture to clear up the whole Ezekiel thing, and explained plainly what everything was in the other post "UFO's and the Bible" heres what I came up with....


"I looked, and I saw a windstorm coming out of the north - an immense cloud with flashing lightning and surrounded by birlliant light. The center of the fire looked like glowing metal, and in the fire was what looked like four living creatures. Inn appearance their form was that of a man, but each of them had four faces and four wings. Ezekiel 1 4-7

The storm and the wheels represents the glory of the Lord, and the creatures are called "Cherubim" these beasts are throne attendants, and they represent man. the lion which is the strongest of the wild beasts; the ox which is themost powerful of domesticated animals; the eagle which is the mightiest fo the birds and finally, man, god's ordained ruler of creation.

I've looked into this before, it's no UFO sighting. Ezekiel was witnessing the Lord in all his might with the "Cherubim."

As for your other passages I'll look into later tonight, I have no bible I'm at my dad's right now but later tonight I'll definatly look into everything you've posted. This should be fun

btw did you write that huge essay? if you did... good job.

[Edited on 23-4-2004 by glitch314]

Another important tidbit:

We need to keep this Mature. Last UFO and Bible post got locked cause it got out of hand. SO if someone brings up evidence don't flame them, find evidence to prove them wrong.

thx

Originally posted by glitch314
I know Jhova is going to flame for this, as he flames me for everything I say...

It was a good essay, I still havent finished it but later tonight I'll try to get on. As a christain and a UFO believer I've done a lot of research as to UFO's mentioned in the bible and I really don't think it mentions anything about them. I used scripture to clear up the whole Ezekiel thing, and explained plainly what everything was in the other post "UFO's and the Bible" heres what I came up with....


"I looked, and I saw a windstorm coming out of the north - an immense cloud with flashing lightning and surrounded by birlliant light. The center of the fire looked like glowing metal, and in the fire was what looked like four living creatures. Inn appearance their form was that of a man, but each of them had four faces and four wings. Ezekiel 1 4-7

The storm and the wheels represents the glory of the Lord, and the creatures are called "Cherubim" these beasts are throne attendants, and they represent man. the lion which is the strongest of the wild beasts; the ox which is themost powerful of domesticated animals; the eagle which is the mightiest fo the birds and finally, man, god's ordained ruler of creation.

I've looked into this before, it's no UFO sighting. Ezekiel was witnessing the Lord in all his might with the "Cherubim."

As for your other passages I'll look into later tonight, I have no bible I'm at my dad's right now but later tonight I'll definatly look into everything you've posted. This should be fun

btw did you write that huge essay? if you did...

good job.

[Edited on 23-4-2004 by glitch314]

Man, that was beautifully put...I really appreciate your post. It's nice to see the scriptures used by a Christian in their correct context. This was a superb reply.

*claps*

BTW Glitch, he didn't write the essay. It was copied and pasted from a book.

Okay, you still have not explained what a "cheribum" is and why it is needed at all.I understand the "sybolism" stuff, and I have understood it from day one, that is not the point.To assume that the situation never happened, and that it was all merely for symbolism does not make any sense.The entire purpose it seems was to show that the spirit of the living creatures was inside of the wheel.And at first, I will bet that the event is actual, the symbolism came second.He keeps emphasing creatures.And that the sprirt of the creatures was inside of the wheel.The fact that it was the shape of the wheel, the shape of a disc of somesorts is just to much to pass up and assume that it was all symbolism.The fact that chariots keep popping up, and that virtually all encounters with the holy just sound to much like ufo activity.Why is it that God wants the Israelites to collect resources for him, like gold and silver.When the Israelites are going to conquer all those who are in the Holy land, the Hittites, Amorites, Cannanites, oh by the way, God purposely had the Israelites kill hundreds of thousands of people who were in there holy land.Now I understand that God doesn't like bad people but what about the Bible's messages about repenting, and forgiving all.God tells them to put all of the valuable resources like gold and silver in his house or his quarters and they say it like he was living among them Why?.i AM SORRY, but there are just TOO many instances where it seems fishy.I know, because my family is very religious, and I have read the Bible alot when I was young. Sacrificing of animals nonstop to a God who supposedly wants you to not do things like that.There are a lot of contradictions, that just don't and never added up until I incorporated the ufo theory.Oh yeah, if it is a cover up of some kind on aliens being n the Bible, of course they would teach Jewish people that it was all symbolism.Oh by the way Preest, I do go to college!!And for you to say I don't really offends me when you only know about me what I LET you know about me on a simply theoretical website.You can never know everything about someone from a website or something like that.

[Edited on 24-4-2004 by jhova]

Originally posted by jhova
Oh by the way Preest, I do go to college!!And for you to say I don't really offends me when you only know about me what I LET you know about me on a simply theoretical website.You can never know everything about someone from a website or something like that.

Ah I see...my stating my disbelief in you going to college offends you but your comments about my mother are all in good fun?

You seem to know enough about the Bible to understand the whole mote and eye thing right? Good...do everybody a favor and don't # this post up with flaming okay. Stick to the topic, please.


As for your thoughts on God and his forgiveness and yet his commandments to kill...you're confusing the testaments. Jehovah of the old Testament was generally perceived by the Jews as a god of Vengeance, war and destruction. A great and terrible god who demanded blood sacrifices from the best of their cattle and the best of their crops. There's a decidedly different facet of God presented in the N.T. which leads some scholars to believe the N.T. was nothing more than the writings of overly enthusiastic followers.

The Jews believed the Christ would be a warrior, both politically and from a miliatry standpoint...not Jesus.

Before you question the symbolism of the Jews and the meaning of the creatures you have to study and understand Judaic culture, religion and superstitions to adequately understand the whirlwind, the creatures and so on. Sometimes you need to research a culture thoroughly before attempting to translate the meanings of their religious works.

Originally posted by jhova
Okay, you still have not explained what a "cheribum" is and why it is needed at all.

A cherub is described as an order of angels, a winged child, and an innocent-looking usually chubby and rosy person.





You will find many references to Cherubs in the Bible.

bible.gospelcom.net...:24&english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on

Genesis 3:24

After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side [ 3:24 Or [ placed in front ] ] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.


bible.gospelcom.net...:11&english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on

2 Samuel 22:11

He mounted the cherubim and flew; he soared [ 22:11 Many Hebrew manuscripts (see also Psalm 18:10); most Hebrew manuscripts [ appeared ] ] on the wings of the wind.

Originally posted by jhova
Sacrificing of animals nonstop to a God who supposedly wants you to not do things like that.There are a lot of contradictions, that just don't and never added up until I incorporated the ufo theory.

In the Old Testament, animals died on the altar of God so humans wouldn't have to die for their sins. The sacrificing of animals was only a temporary means of salvation. The ultimate sacrifice was to be his own Son, Jesus. God was willing to send His only Son to Earth as the supreme sin sacrifice. Jesus died on the cross to pay for our sins. With his death animal sacrifice became unnecessary because Jesus died for all sin for all time.

bible.gospelcom.net...

Acts 4

12Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

Trough History there are Thousonds of *Evidence* for Visitors From Space... Do you not believe in other words than the words from the bible? There is much more to this world you know.

Originally posted by Cardu
Trough History there are Thousonds of *Evidence* for Visitors From Space... Do you not believe in other words than the words from the bible? There is much more to this world you know.

Don�t get me wrong. I do believe in other life in the universe but I don�t believe there is evidence of this written in the bible. Nor do I believe that God is an alien. But this belief doesn�t rule out the possibility of life in other parts of the galaxy.

I�ve posted this before but I will do it again because it applies to this discussion. It warps my mind when I think of it.

Originally posted by kinglizard
When you look at a dark sky, on a clear, moonless night; all the stars in the sky number perhaps 5000 stars at any given time. This is about the number of grains of sand in a small handful of sand. But, the number of stars in the visible universe is greater than the number of all the grains of sand on all the beaches on the face of the planet Earth.

The family of stars in which our Sun belongs is the Milky Way galaxy. The number of stars in our galaxy alone is equal to about the number of grains of sand in two large dump trucks. There are perhaps 100 billion galaxies in our universe.

We are talking about stars (suns); now consider how many planets must be among the planetary bodies. There must be life elsewhere, probability absolutely demands it.

Thanks kinglizard, you did a good job on that.

All of this stuff is still smatter of opinions, well thought out but nothing more.I think you are confusing actual Jewish religions from thousands of years ago to the ones today, I don't believe the concepts are completely the same.Unless Jews are still sacrificing animals on altars, the "stuff" is not the same.Even any symbolism they perform today to substitue, would still not be the same.Symbolism from the original is STILL changing it, no matter how you look at it. Cheribum can also mean a vessel that is the color of metal, the color of beryl as reported in a scripture that I cannot remeber right now, try to get back to you.And I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT YOUR MOTHER!!You took the joke the wrong way, seriously!

[Edited on 24-4-2004 by jhova]

Originally posted by jhova
Unless Jews are still sacrificing animals on altars, the "stuff" is not the same.

That�s a good question jhova. I don�t know much about the Jewish faith so I did a quick search on the web, this is what I found:

Do Jews offer sacrifices today?

No. To my knowledge, no Jews today offer any kind of animal sacrifice or offerings, nor have Jews offered sacrifices since the second century C.E. I have occasionally heard rumors that there are Orthodox rabbis in Israel who practice the techniques of ritual sacrifice, so that the knowledge will not be lost, but I do not know if these stories are reliable, and even if they are, this is not quite the same thing as offering a sacrifice.

When did Jews stop offering sacrifices, and why?

For the most part, the practice of sacrifice stopped in the year 70 C.E., when the Roman army destroyed the Temple in Jerusalem, the place where sacrifices were offered. The practice was briefly resumed during the Jewish War of 132-135 C.E., but was ended permanently after that war was lost. There were also a few communities that continued sacrifices for a while after that time.

We stopped offering sacrifices because we do not have a proper place to offer them. The Torah specifically commands us not to offer sacrifices wherever we feel like it; we are only permitted to offer sacrifices in the place that G-d has chosen for that purpose. Deut. 12:13-14. It would be a sin to offer sacrifices in any other place, akin to stealing candles and wine to observe the Sabbath.

The last place appointed by G-d for this purpose was the Temple in Jerusalem, but the Temple has been destroyed and a mosque has been erected in the place where it stood. Until G-d provides us with another place, we cannot offer sacrifices. There was at one time an opinion that in the absence of an assigned place, we could offer sacrifices anywhere. Based on that opinion, certain communities made their own sacrificial places. However, the majority ultimately ruled against this practice, and all sacrifice ceased.Orthodox Jews believe that when the messiah comes, a place will be provided for sacrificial purposes.

www.jewish.org.pl...



[Edited on 24-4-2004 by kinglizard]

Well there could be a difference on Orthodox Jews and the original Jews of the Bible.But I also remember that the Bible says that God would take offerings from anywhere.He (God) would take plundered silver and gold (Joshua6:24) from when the Jews slaughtered the people of the Negev hills, but why would he not take lesser offerings of animals from an altar.Here is a site that somewhat backs up the literal sense of Genesis and the Bible, and the notion the Bible makes of Giants or what I like to call alien hybrids that actually walked the earth.Before you guys get all skeptical on me...take a GOOD HARD look at ALL of this info before you make your final desicion on this matter:

http//:www.s8int.com/giants1.html

signature: "...so whenever you get through laughing, playing whatever you doing, holla at me I'll be in the bathroom booboin." by, Devin the Dude.

Originally posted by jhova
Cheribum can also mean a vessel that is the color of metal, the color of beryl as reported in a scripture that I cannot remeber right now, try to get back to you.

Cherub cannot be considered a metal vessel. Unless you are referencing the building of cherub statues formed from gold for the adornment of the Holy Arc.


Genesis 3:24
After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side [ 3:24 Or [ placed in front ] ] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

Exodus 25:19
Make one cherub on one end and the second cherub on the other; make the cherubim of one piece with the cover, at the two ends.

Exodus 25:20
The cherubim are to have their wings spread upward, overshadowing the cover with them. The cherubim are to face each other, looking toward the cover.

Ezekiel 10:4
Then the glory of the LORD rose from above the cherubim and moved to the threshold of the temple. The cloud filled the temple, and the court was full of the radiance of the glory of the LORD.

Ezekiel 10:5
The sound of the wings of the cherubim could be heard as far away as the outer court, like the voice of God Almighty [ 10:5 Hebrew [ El-Shaddai ] ] when he speaks.

Ezekiel 28:14
You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones.


Click here to view all references to Cherub in the Bible.