UNWRA HQ in Gaza hit by 3 Israeli white phosphorous shells

reply to post by munkey66


I ask you another question. What does technology have to do with it? Is Hamas targeting civilians with the rockets they fire? Isn't that something that most people would consider evil? How can anyone rationalize that?

Hamas lobbing rockets at civilians could be considered equivalent to the little boy who loses his temper and just begins throwing rocks at everyone he sets his angry gaze upon.

I'm not denying Israel doesn't do the same thing.

How can anyone rationalize the evils of either side?

Some of you need to further read my post and realize I'm not standing up for one side over the either. Both are terrible.

I am getting the impression that most people are now siding with Palestine.

They sure are and I am too.
Sorry for the palestinians who turned radical, some just get pushed over the edge and become what they become.You would have a chance to become that also, if you were pushed around far enough to lose it.

In a short answer.
Radical palestinian existance feeds off the Isreaeli agression.
People turn radical for a reason.

No more:Blockades, road blocks, limitations, agression = drop in radical behavior.

More war and all of that=Increase in radical movement.

For the statistics.
From 1.5 milion people you got about 2% of radical palestinians in Gaza.
The rest of 98% do not have guns do not have rockets, half of them are children.

It's simple human behavior, when someone will try to control you, you become the counter force to counter that control.

Depending on what level of control you take decisions of how far you will go with your counter plan.

What you got is: From harsh words to firing rockets.



[edit on 15-1-2009 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by SectionEight
Just a few accidental smoke screen shells going off course from the same artillery piece. Nothing illegal no war crimes just the fortunes of war. Isreal is getting hurt in the propaganda by this so that proves right there they would never do this intentionally.

So how ignorant are you? Im mean blinded by AIPAC propaganda for sure, but Firing WP rounds in a densly packed urban environment is not being used for smoke at all.

You comments that the chopters need it is pure rubbish. You use smoke to obscure battlefield movement by ground forces. Not Chopters. The biggest threat to chopters is heat seeking missiles which smoke does not block and RPG rounds. You keep the chopters far off. :shk: I realize this does not fit into your comic book tactics but sheesh

Also the IDF is choseing to use the M825 WP rounds when it could just as easily fire the

Hexachloroethane. Hexachloroethane (HC) smoke (smk) projectiles are available for 105-mm and 155-mm howitzers. They are used for screening, obscuration, spotting, and signaling purposes. The projectile has no casualty-producing effects. This base-ejection projectile is ballistically simailar to the HE projectile. It is fitted with a mechanical time fuze M565 or M577. The round expels smoke canisters that emit smoke for a period of 40 to 90 seconds. www.globalsecurity.org...

If you look up from your talking points you will note it clearly states "The projectile has no casualty-producing effects" but hey why go to that trouble when you can as i have said before drop WP on civilians which is a war crime.

Originally posted by pepsi78
[In a short answer.
Radical palestinian existance feeds off the Isreaeli agression.
People turn radical for a reason.

No more:Blockades, road blocks, limitations, agression = drop in radical behavior.

You would have thought that Israel which spends more time reminding the world of thier history would pay attention too.

When has this worked for them in the past? They have basically ensures HAMAS's existance for the next 10-15 years.

reply to post by pepsi78


An argument can be made from the other perspective too.......

I'm sorry for the radical Israelis, who after being in three different wars with the Arab nations around them have began to exhibit racist tendencies towards them.

I'm sorry for the radical Israelis, who were scared out of their minds after WWII, seeing that 6,000,000 of them had just been slaughtered, they jumped at the chance to have their own nation.

What do you think made Israel "radical"?

Like I said in a previous post......both sides are full of extremists. Both sides are driven by the hate of the other. There is no "good" side in this conflict.

[edit on 15-1-2009 by Bugman82]

Originally posted by SectionEight

Originally posted by DantesLost
reply to post by blobby

 

Apparently it wasn't just the UN headquarters that was hit.
In the same area a Red Cross hospital was hit and a block of flats that housed news reporters.

See link for details.
www.jpost.com...

Well now it is starting to look like there is foul play going on here or Isreal has a whole batch of bad artillery smoke shells cursed with bad luck. To randomly hit by accident 3 of the worst targets imaginable is highly against the odds. HAMAS is gaining a lot of ground in the news with this stuff, they could have done it themselves. They have the motive and the access to the areas.

OH MY FREAKING GOSH!

will you stop with the propaganda and open your eyes!

Israel is out of control. Now you are justifying the whole thing by the pathetic excuse of 'they must have bad shells'. or that Hamas must be doing it... using WP. The same WP that in another threadthe'israel can do no wrong' crowd were denying.

Lies lies and utter lies by Israel and their minions!

reply to post by Operation AJAX


Not only that but they gave birth to Hamas, not as in"let us blow some things up and Hamas will pop in to existance" but they really constructed Hamas from the roots.They planed for Hamas to come in to existance to counter the PLO.Israel is the father of Hamas, Hamas was invented by Israel and Israel is feeding Hamas to live longer and longer.

Hamas is Israel's evil child.It acts like his father, like father like son.



The irony...


[edit on 15-1-2009 by pepsi78]

reply to post by 04326


I would argue that Hamas is also out of control. Both are out of control. Stop the propaganda and stand up against fundamentalist mind sets. Stand up against extreme ideologies.

reply to post by Bugman82


I am not saying that HAMAS is not out of control. If you read my posts, one will see that they too are being blamed.

BUT the point is that israel has gone too far. and people are still arguing about technicalities.

Originally posted by Bugman82
reply to post by 04326

 

I would argue that Hamas is also out of control. Both are out of control. Stop the propaganda and stand up against fundamentalist mind sets. Stand up against extreme ideologies.

The question..
Who is more out of control right now?

Hamas:10 Israeli victims, 7 of this were IDF.
Israel:Over 1000 people are dead more than half of this number are children and women and men that are not part of Hamas.
Over 4000 people are injured, among this number a great number are missing legs, arms or they have face burns, and burns all over the body.


Again 10 VS 1000
How many zero zero zero do yo see?





[edit on 15-1-2009 by pepsi78]

reply to post by 04326


Sorry, if I didn't make it clear, I wasn't pointing to you and saying, "You are siding with Hamas". I was making a very general statement that both are out of control, and I was simply using your post as a staging ground to express that belief.

reply to post by Bugman82

What does technology have to do with it?

If Hamas had the weapons to target Israels military bases, they would much rather take out an Israeli airfield opposed to someones house.

Isn't that what the cold war was all about, If you have nukes and we have nukes, no one will use them!

Would Israel strike Gaza in the same manner if Gazza had identical weapons?

you are right, no side is right, both leaders should be locked in a room until they can compramise.
As a parent I get my kids to sit in the corner until they can treat each other well.
They spend less time in the corner and more time playing now.
didn't take long for children to learn, how long should it take supposed intelligent adults?

The trend I don't like seeing is the one where you side with the civilians and the huge number of civilian casualties and wounded(including hundreds of children) and you're labeled as siding with Hamas.

Both sides of this conflict are guilty. But I can't see Israel thinking that blockading a country not letting anything in or out, bombing it to hell every chance you get an excuse and not expecting some "BLOWBACK" ie: Rockets into Israel. This was set up a long time ago in the summer to really destroy the Palestinians, civilians and all.

Now getting back to the topic at hand. Israel I believe did this on purpose to thumb it's nose at the world community to show the world leaders especially Middle East Leaders that Israel is untouchable. With the US vetoeing every resolution against Israel, there is nothing they won't do because there is no stopping them.

It's like not disciplining your bratty child when they are acting up. If there is no consequences to their actions then there is nothing stopping the child's behavior.

OHHH!!! that above statement is going to get me in trouble with the Pro-Israel side

I'm not for either side, I really want an end to this useless war. Both sides need to live up to a ceasefire. Meaning no more blockade of GAZA by Israel. Perhaps a UN controlled buffer zone between the two. Oh wait that won't work.

The Palestinian people need a real chance to rebuild their shattered country get a real economy going so the civilians can start to rebuild their lives and move on from the past. If this were allowed to happen and a true co-existance could be achieved between the two countries. The rockets would not be an issue.

reply to post by pepsi78


Sorry, but the numbers game has no bearing on my perspective. Motif and goals have a lot to do with how I view things. Intent is important.

What do I see? I see Hamas attacking civilians with rockets. I see past suicide bombings by Hamas specifically targeting civilians. I see Hamas using civilians as human shields (having been proved by a video posted by a moderator).

I see Israel attacking civilian structures and having very little regard for civilian casualties in this conflict. I see numerous UN structures hit. I see a huge show of force and about 20-30% of the dead being civilian casualties.

I see both as out of control.

[edit on 15-1-2009 by Bugman82]

reply to post by DEEZNUTZ


i couldn't agree with you more. they are deliberately bombing everyone including journalists and the UN to prove the point that no will do anything b/c they have america on their side.

i reckon they need to be invaded, locked up, and REMINDED what being anti-semitic means.

i NEVER EVER thought that these type of words would be coming from me. I had always prided myself in my sense of 'non violence' but it is come to a point where all niceness is out of the window.

I would like to quote McCain - only with a slight alteration:

Bomb, Bomb Israel (and not Iran)!

reply to post by DantesLost


Thanks, Ill go over it.
Have a good night.

Originally posted by Bugman82
reply to post by pepsi78

 

Sorry, but the numbers game has no bearing on my perspective. Motif and goals have a lot to do with how I view things. Intent is important.

What do I see? I see Hamas attacking civilians with rockets. I see past suicide bombings by Hamas specifically targeting civilians. I see Hamas using civilians as human shields (having been proved by a video posted by a moderator).

I see Israel attacking civilian structures and having very little regard for civilian casualties in this conflict. I see numerous UN structures hit. I see a huge show of force and about 20-30% of the dead being civilian casualties.

I see both as out of control.

[edit on 15-1-2009 by Bugman82]

how many times does one have to say that HAMAS was created by Israel!

before one understands.

reply to post by 04326


What does it matter if Hamas was created by Israel? Does that change the fact that Hamas is targeting civilians and out of control? Does that somehow change the fact that they have extreme ideologies?

No, it doesn't change the fact that both sides are full of extremist views. It is simply another attempt to RATIONALIZE their behavior. RATIONALIZING their behavior is unacceptable.

I hate these straw man fallacies that build up non-arguments.....

Oh, and sorry if it seems as though many of my arguments are pointed against Hamas. I'm trying to keep it as neutral as possible, but I'm being barraged by people who seem to think it is ok to support or sympathize with Hamas. It is not ok to rationalize the evils of either side.

[edit on 15-1-2009 by Bugman82]

reply to post by 04326


Oh there are plenty more in the list of who made who.
Suddam, Osama, hamas, hezzbullah, the list goes on, in fact there has been a finger in the pie of most conflicts around the globe,
These things don't just happen by chance, they are formulated and thought out to acheive an agenda.

Hitting the UN aid station was just another step in the big picture,

Is Gaza just bait to get things really stirred up?

yep hamas was created and funded by israel probably still is, their rockets are sugar powered home made jobs not sams or anything else made in the usa, israel or russia hence the lack of civilian casualties, what i see is this, the , they, are trying very hard to draw Iran into this conflict, thank god Iran is being sensible, because you all know what will happen if they become involved, oh, that! the unthinkable, nukes deployed, world war 3, i cannnot comprehend why the world community has not told israel to stand down, why is this being allowed? my thoughts are because there is already another agenda in place, please correct me if i am wrong, esp if i am proved wrong, scary stuff, UN facilities hit, no excuse, women and children, no excuse, media people, no excuse, who ever is calling the shots is a very very sick person as is the nation and the other funding nation the USA that supports that person. I would be there with the people of Gaza if could with a briefcase SAM at my shoulder if i could, Anger does not correct israels behaviour, they are so far far out of line that what they are doing makes no sense at all. So even if, and the why, why? why? why? is israel so angry when they took down the world trade buildings, and in doing thus enabled the Iraq fiasco, they are in my mind nuts, perhaps too interbred, so we now have said nutcases with at least 250 nuclear weapons and chemical weapons all banned by certain treaties world wide, am i wrong? or does something smell very very bad in this scenario? sorry people just my 2 cents..love ya all.